Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S.

I had a guy in my shop class in high school who was from the resevation and he said Custer died for our sins. Well I think Custer was part of the final solution because the courts were recognizing the rights of the Indians, so they turned it into a military situation. I think there was some due proccess that was denied to these people, and it should be worked out in a peacefull manner. They got screwed in the past and we do not need to do more harm than has already been done.

reply to post by lakotawillfail


Methinks that YOU are the one who is missing the point. And the facts. PLEASE examine some of these specifics that you are asking for.

First, it would serve you well to do a bit of background research on the beginnings of the Indian "relocation". There was The Indian Removal Act of 1830. There was also the unbelievable Relocation Act of 1956, which transferred more than 1.5 million Indians into urban areas.

As I have said before, the lifestyle of Indians was nomadic and self-sufficiency was their lifestyle. They pursued their lifepath very well until the invasion of white man into their world.

Native Indians lost their wide expanse of land that was required for their survival. Natives lost their buffalo when white man all but exterminated the entire buffalo species. Natives lost their ability to hunt and gather efficiently as they became prisoners held openly within the confines of Indian lands that the white man allowed them to use.

The destructive influence of white man's lifestyle and the government restrictions placed on the Indians forced changes in the Indian lifestyle. One important example that should not be overlooked is the cattle reduction programs from the 1930s. Those programs were implemented to avoid overgrazing on the Reservation lands. This program was forced on the Indians, but not on the non-Indians living in and around the reservations.

With the implementation of the cattle reduction programs, Indians were unable to sustain their economic viability on the Reservation. Many Indians were forced into government welfare programs because of this. As we all know, government welfare programs restrain and control people at a subsistence level.

Forced to accept all of the government manipulative and devisive tactics, our Native Indians have been pushed into becoming consumers rather than the efficient hunter/gatherer people they originally were. They have less freedoms than you do. For one thing, you have been permitted to retain your white man mindset of ignorance and consumer greed. That "freedom" is still yours and you're allowed to have it. But Native Indians are not permitted the freedom to think as their culture has taught them. (Do you even know what their culture has taught them?)

Your focus here is biased and has consistently referenced something along the lines of socio-economics, though your lack of articulation and facts lead us to nothing concrete or conclusive, merely a group of shallow words based on bias and bigotry.

Remember this, though: Your connection to land is but a piece of paper. The Native Indians are spiritually and life-tied to open lands -- ANCESTRAL lands -- and their life-spirit has been altered by white man. You're sounding off because "they" don't live up to "your" value system. How insipid.

We could all benefit greatly if we embraced the belief system of Native Americans. Should our society begin living with a sense of reverance for the earth filled with appreciation rather than a consumer-driven capitalist-pig mentality all under the name of "progress", we might actually learn some wisdom and build ourselves a more self-sufficient lifestyle.

But no. The lifestyle on Reservations has forced Natives into a trapped, enclosed white man's world where their existence is measured and studied against white man's Many people know that the government has developed subversive plans to force a no-win scenario leading Natives to failure so they will be forced to abandon their remaining land, their culture, and their collective body. And you, LTF, have adopted this white man mindset for yourself. Lucky you ... you have the freedom to do that and white man laws to back you up.

Originally posted by Zoltan

Forced to accept all of the government manipulative and devisive tactics, our Native Indians have been pushed into becoming consumers rather than the efficient hunter/gatherer people they originally were. They have less freedoms than you do. For one thing, you have been permitted to retain your white man mindset of ignorance and consumer greed. That "freedom" is still yours and you're allowed to have it. But Native Indians are not permitted the freedom to think as their culture has taught them. (Do you even know what their culture has taught them?)

Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.

John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976

Ghost Dance



www.youtube.com...

[edit on 27-12-2007 by E†E]

White man statistics force words like "poverty" onto Native Indians who never used money to survive until white man invaded their lands. Measurements such as this illustrates how white man's values and laws are measuring the success/failure of Native Indians. Poverty levels are measured in dollars and households. There is no measure for tribal dissatisfaction or disgust, aside from their lack of interest to collectively partake in everything that white man deems of value.

Pine Ridge Reservation and Off Reservation Trust
Jackson Co 1,205 total; 170 unemployed; 755 in poverty
Shannon Co 11,680 total; 1270 unemployed; 6010 in poverty

Source: Native American Data from 2000 Census
www.doleta.gov...

To continue, the downfall of Native Indians doesn't end with economic issues. Natives believe that their culture and lifestyle have been seriously challenged by environment problems.

"The "TREATY" (True Revolution for Elders, Ancestors, Treaties and Youth) program for autonomy, self-sufficiency, and environmental protection was launched by Indians on the Pine Ridge Reservation; AIM found it crucial to link the issue of their own sovereignty to environmental concerns . A.I.M. strongly believes that to have Indian land rightfully returned to the Native communites practising traditional, spiritual and ecologically respectful lifestyles is crucial ...
Source: Deloria, Vine jr. Behind the Trail of Broken Treaaties: An Indian Declaration of Independence, University of Texas Press, Austin, 2nd edition, 1984, page 216-217.

If you really ARE familiar with the Pine Ridge region in SD, then you should know that the U.S. Geological Survey and the Bureau of Mines found that the Pine Ridge Reservation contained a wealth of mineral resources. When the government learned that oil, gas, and uranium were present, there was great increase in mining activities. NOT mined by Lakota.

Anyone who isn't a corporate-mouthpiece for a mining company will readily admit to the associated environmental destruction caused by mining. And witness the increased cancer rates (cluster zones, directly attributed to mining). Then there are the birth defects due to the gross levels of alpha radiation in the drinking water. But I don't suppose that you would ever consider that the government's creation of a quasi Superfund site would piss a few Lakota off, now would you?


White man has developed the means to force the extinction of our Native Americans. When environmentalists work to save a threatened species, we provide the indigenous habitat for the species to survive. We saved the Spotted Owl. Why can't white man do the same for our Native Indians?

Originally posted by Zoltan

White man has developed the means to force the extinction of our Native Americans. When environmentalists work to save a threatened species, we provide the indigenous habitat for the species to survive. We saved the Spotted Owl. Why can't white man do the same for our Native Indians?

Some trees can not produce that kind of fruit ..
The survival of the Native Indians will have to come from within the Native Indian .

The voice of the Lakota now echo through the talk of the people..
a voice that is speaking in all our hearts when we listen to vibration this has caused.

its not in this tribe or that tribe that we hear this voice talking too

within it all ancestors from the four corners join
The Lakota message is understood in the hearts of man through out the lands.

it brings many things to the table that need to be dealt with.

if one puts his ear to the ground..they can not only hear the changes coming
but they can see it in the skys up into the night.

what do you see and hear?

why speak of the native people who have awakened to stand on there mountain.

what is it in the US that is stirring awake the natives?

people from all walks of life world wide are awakening to stand!

it is time for change.
the Lakota have spoken it to power for there people.

Stand up and find your mountain.
a new year is here.

I don't find it odd to see the root of the tree in this land shake when it can sense the season of change arrive.

it is the old trees that have the deepest roots that one can trust most in these matters.









[edit on 27-12-2007 by E†E]

I got a question. BTW, is this true?

Originally posted by Odessy
also, and a little off topic..
Americans killed like 16 million Indians when we colonized the nation and expanded from coast to coast.
so its not surprising that more than 6 million jews were killed.

human history is sad, and repeats itself.

16 million?

reply to post by TheoOne


That figure is based on an estimate of the number living at the time of first contact. Diseases brought by the invaders, and for which the Native population had little or no natural immunity, did most of the work.

Within a few short years, deaths were rampant from things like smallpox far beyond the borders claimed by the invaders. Indians were not ignorant of why they were getting sick. They were usually sure that the coming of the white race and the spreading deaths were linked, though the mechanism was not known. This created fear and loathing by the Indians, and that causes anger.

Yet, all out war, except when orchestrated by the French, British or American governments, was not common. Native people were basically more peaceful than their invaders. To strike or dishonor an enemy combatant was of higher praise than to kill him, in many minds. Scalping was introduced as proof for bounty payments of enemies by the whites, most often for Indian scalps.

Read history, not just the books from school, where things are whitewashed so as not to be to unpalatable form whites.

The way I see it the Lakota nation is seeking their own personal freedom to live how they see fit and isn't that the idea the United States was founded on to begin with. I also agree that it is within their power and authority to declare their independence/seceed the same way the southern states did in 1860.But the result will be the same where the ruling class will enforce their will upon on a subserviate populace . They should be allowed their freedom ( land included ) but it will not happen to the Lakotas detriment!

The way I see it the Lakota nation is seeking their own personal freedom to live how they see fit and isn't that the idea the United States was founded on to begin with. I also agree that it is within their power and authority to declare their independence/seceed the same way the southern states did in 1860.But the result will be the same where the ruling class will enforce their will upon on a subserviate populace . They should be allowed their freedom ( land included ) but it will not happen to the Lakotas detriment!

Has anyone heard anything new?

I can't find much on line, has Russell spoken anything new?

I doubt we'll hear much of anything on this until after the New Year. Most government offices are closed, or mostly deserted by now, so they won't put out any type of statement for another four or five days.

Unfortunately, many times when someone from one of the tribes speaks up, they're just ignored, like they're unimportant. Sometimes, in an effort to be heard, some path of civil disobedience is taken. Then the Great White Father and all his minions wring their collective hands and deplore the lack of civil dialog.

Unless the delegation files there terms legally in federal court, no one has to answer them. You can bet all those tribes with sovereignty, working well managed federal programs and casinos will not disturb the great white fathers unless they want to be scrutinized and have there prosperity challenged.

The lakota need to organize there system of self preservation and help one another achieve sustainability by acquiring potential equality for all members instead of fighting each other over positions of power. Those who have and those who have not are what makes the lakota what they are now.

and the same thing is beginning to happen in australia with the
aboriginals.......it's an earth law. you reap what you sow..........
i pray for my brothers everywhere.

Here is the reply I got from Lakota for freedom

Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:43:27 -0500
From: "Lakota Freedom" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
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To: "Elizabeth Wood"
Subject: Pilameya - thank you - for your support
Haumikole!

Friends and Allies;

Thank you all for your expressions of encouragement, support and solidarity. At this time, we are putting together information for supporters of Lakota Freedom. In order to best serve our mutual needs, we'd like to provide the following information and make the following requests.
1. We are in the process of creating a listserve and supporter database to keep allies informed. If you'd like to be included on this list, please provide your name, email and location.
2. Many of the emails received to date have been declarations of support. If you are interested in offering active support and volunteering your time and energies, please email us with these intentions and your abilities, skills and resources, as well as your contact information.
3. At this time we are setting up a way to accept donations and gifts for the Lakota Nation that is accountable to the People. If you are interested in helping us, please be patient as we set up the structures necessary to accept these kinds of aid.
4. Information about the possibilities of immigration and relocation to the Nation will be forthcoming. Keep checking the website for updates on the future of the Nation.

Due to the volume of incoming emails, it would be very helpful if you included the code INFORESPONSE in the subject of your responding emails to [email protected].

Pilameya - thank you!

After 150 years of colonial enforcement, when you back people into a corner there is only one alternative. That alternative is to bring freedom back into existence by taking it back - back to the love of freedom, to our lifeway. Canupa Gluha Mani






On Dec 21, 2007 12:01 AM, Elizabeth Wood wrote:

Hi,
I belong to a discussion forum called, www.abovetopsecret.com .
You have many supporters there, not only in the U.S. but many other countries. There are questions being raised that I think only a member of the Lakota tribe can answer. Would you kindly accept this invitation and join us there? We would be honored.
Here is the topic link
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Originally posted by E†E
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,

I noticed you mentioned horses, and how they could be used as gifts to those who had none. Horses, as im sure you are aware, are not indigenous to the americas, and never were. "White man" was the one who brought horses to the americas.

As said, the dominant tribe won, it just happened to be a european one. What happens in the future has yet to be seen.

I think that there were many wise native americans indians, especially in the past. Much could have been learned from them. I also like how spiritual they were. I think probably more so than many ppls from around the world.

Lakota has an uphill battle thats for sure.

[edit on 29-12-2007 by West Coast]

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Trimmed BIG quote

Please read ABOUT ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 1/1/08 by masqua]

Giving away a gift that was once given
is in your point a negative?

I don't see how it could shame the one giving.

if anything it enhances the potential of the 'moral' of the statement it was mentioned with.

I can understand how the credit of the horse's ancestral belonging to the possessor is important to you.

maybe we should ask the horse who he/she wants the owner to be.
the white man or the Indian.

or the land for that matter.

It is who is better able to take it from the other.
then if taking justifys who becomes possessor
how can either side ever own it as long as the other side is ready to steal it.

what if one side decided to do away with the other side entirely as a means to forever keep the possession.

the battle then becomes a point of survival rather then for possession of goods.

this is the state of the mind we see rising.

like the moon that sheds it light for all to see
peoples of all tribes face the same revelation

for as many will be to busy to notice
the moon is above them regardless if they see it or not

what the Lokota are saying for their tribe echo's can be heard by all tribes if they put there ear to the ground they stand.

the wise ones in the past have taught the young ones
to listen.

we share the revelation
or we die fighting to own it

Just want to offer my support to the Lakota People too and hope they can continue to stay strong in their pursuit of freedom. By the way I believe the horse (referred to in a previous post) is native to America. If interested please see the information at www.ansp.org/museum/leidy/paleo/equus.php

Happy New Year!!

Well...extremists aside. I truly wonder just how many native americans really want to give up the trappings of modern living and go back to living in tents. The view of the "natural indian" lifestyle is romanticized via the media. Having spent many a cold night in a hunting camp of one sort or another, its an ok place to visit, but I don't want to live there.

If they want to withdraw from the treaties and participation in the USA, then they lose their citizenship also and their rights to the power grid, insurance, public schooling, tax monies etc...

Fine...close the gates to the reservation and let them live as they please.

Raf

reply to post by Raf_50


A few things you might want to know about the teepee(tipi)

The tipi was durable, provided warmth and comfort in winter, was dry during heavy rains, and was cool in the heat of summer. Tipis could be disassembled and packed away quickly when a tribe decided to move, and could be reconstructed quickly when the tribe settled in a new area.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by sizzle


..."The tipi was durable, provided warmth and comfort in winter, was dry during heavy rains, and was cool in the heat of summer. Tipis could be disassembled and packed away quickly when a tribe decided to move, and could be reconstructed quickly when the tribe settled in a new area..."

Yes, yes...great for an extended camping trip, but if I'm going to have to live the rest of my life...I want electricity, flush toilets, running water, television, air conditioning, heating, flooring, modern medical care etc...not to mention access to a vehicle and the fuel needed to run it. You know, the trappings of modern civilization. You can romanticize the life of the plains indian if you want. But life expectancy was around 40. Infant mortality was extemely high.

I'm not unsympathetic to the problems on the reservation. But the world has moved on. The plains indian was nomadic and ranged from Montana to New Mexico. The buffalo are gone, the elk and antelope herds are thinned or penned behind high fenced private land. The open range was fenced in the 1890's.

You can't step back in time. The only alternative is to embrace the new world and learn to get along in it. Or find a balance of traditional living and new world realities. Doesn't make anything right, but the past is gone.

Raf