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Time magazine declares Putin "Person of the Year"

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posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 01:14 PM
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Time magazine declares Putin "Person of the Year"


en.rian.ru

MOSCOW, December 19 (RIA Novosti) - U.S. magazine Time has declared Russian President Vladimir Putin "Person of the Year" for bringing stability to his country and raising Russia's role on the global stage.

Time called Putin a "steely and determined man" who has "emerged as a critical linchpin of the 21st century."
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.time.com

Related Discussion Threads:
engforum.pravda.ru...

[edit on 19-12-2007 by manson_322]




posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 01:14 PM
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The magazine said Putin's last year in office has been his most successful. "At home, he secured his political future. Abroad, he expanded his outsize - if not always benign - influence on global affairs."

Describing Putin, also the magazine said he "stands, above all, for stability - stability before freedom, stability before choice, stability in a country that has hardly seen it for a hundred years."

Putin is a very competent leader , while that Bush is a total, delusional moron destroying the economy of his nation. As for the American election, I couldn't care less who eventually will be elected/selected by the powers behind the scenes. Vote fraud is rampant there and even dead people are voting. All who are running have already pledged submission to AIPAC. In other words, all are traitors. So who cares which traitor will be selected.

As for Prez Putin, such leaders as him only come forward once in every 200-300 years.

en.rian.ru
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 01:31 PM
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It's certainly an interesting choice, but it's not necessarily an honour... Hitler (1938), Stalin (1939 & 1942) and Ayatollah Khomeini (1979) have all been named Person of the Year. I for one wouldn't count being named among such individuals as honourable, anyway


You also mention George W. Bush, manson_322 - well, he was the Person of the Year in both 2000 and 2004.

Putin certainly is a strong leader and appears to be effective, but it's important to remember the trade-offs that the Russian people have had to make in return for these qualities (trade-offs that I wouldn't accept personally).

[edit on 19/12/07 by Ste2652]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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Yup, thank you Putin for putting the Cold War back into full gear.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by manson_322
Describing Putin, also the magazine said he "stands, above all, for stability - stability before freedom, stability before choice, stability in a country that has hardly seen it for a hundred years."


In the context of the situation in the world as it is now, I can appreciate that (stability). Balance.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by guppy
Yup, thank you Putin for putting the Cold War back into full gear.


I thought it's Bush who did



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Ste2652

You also mention George W. Bush, manson_322 - well, he was the Person of the Year in both 2000 and 2004.

[edit on 19/12/07 by Ste2652]


Hitler, Putin, Stalin I can understand, but George W Bush......c'mon Time Magazine



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:47 PM
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I was watching BBC World News (tv), and they had a video of Putin standing in a river, fishing topless. They refered to him as a "pin-up"
I thought that was a bit funny. Maybe they confused him with Dobby?





posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:52 PM
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Manson, considering that your avatar reflects the image of the man,Joseph Stalin, who is responsible for the deaths of 20-80 million people,I think I'll take your analysis with a grain of salt...


[edit on 19-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


20-80 million figure is western propaganda BS , according to KGB archives, Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 7-8 million people
and the figures of the famines were greatly inflated by western propaganda



1.5 million due to various famines from 1926-1933
2.5 million germans
500000 chechens/ingush muslims
700000 during the purges
100000 christian and muslim priests were executed
200000 jews
1 million in the gulag camps
50000 Cossacks in the civil war were executed under his orders
200000 poles
1 million uzbeks

now on the famines:
2 million ukrianians kulaks were exiled by Stalin for counter revolutionary activites out of which 700000 died , and the remaining famine was due bad climatic conditions in siberia and volga region

in fact trotsky was responsible for the death of 18-27 milliion people during the russian civil war

and if i started using western methods , then i can prove USA has murdered more than 40 million people ,

and USa murdered 20-30 million native indians and in the 20 th century has murdered millions of third worlders ,
link on american state terrorism:
www.intellnet.org...

"Douglas Tottle exposes the fraudulent charge of famine-genocide made
against the USSR . . . Skillfully Tottle traces the labyrinthine history of the
"evidence" - documentary and photographic - on its convoluted passage
from nazi publications to the Hearst press to the misfounded "scholarship"
of such present-day Kremlinologists as Robert Conquest. Tottle's sharp and engagingly written investigation is useful and intelligent. The author makes up an important contribution by exposing the ways and wiles of
anti-Communist propaganda."
-Clarence J. Munford
Professor of History
University of Guelph

"For almost 70 years the study of the Soviet Union has been trapped in a sea of distortion, lie and propaganda. While this has not always been one-sided, its overall effect has been to stimulate fear, suspicion and danger of war. In the present age
of new thinking about the history of socialism in the USSR, it remains necessary to
deal with and disperse at least the worst of the lies. Tottle's book demonstrates
clearly the viciousness surrounding the theory of the Ukrainian genocide and
hopefully will open the way to genuine stufy of the Ukrainian road to socialism."
David Whitefield
Professor of History
University of Calgary


Nevertheless the millions said to have died of starvation in the Ukraine according to the Hearst press in America, parroted in books and films, was completely false information. The Canadian journalist, Douglas Tottle, meticulously exposed the falsifications in his book `Fraud, famine and fascism - the Ukrainian genocide myth from Hitler to Harvard', published in Toronto in 1987. Among other things, Tottle proved that the photographic material used, horrifying photographs of starving children, had been taken from 1922 publications at a time when millions of people did die from hunger and war conditions because eight foreign armies had invaded the Soviet Union during the Civil War of 1918-1921. Douglas Tottle gives the facts surrounding the reporting of the famine of 1934 and exposes the assorted lies published in the Hearst press. One journalist who had over a long period of time sent reports and photographs from supposed famine areas was Thomas Walter, a man who never set foot in the Ukraine and even in Moscow had spent but a bare five days. This fact was revealed by the journalist Louis Fisher, Moscow Correspondent of The Nation, an American newspaper. Fisher also revealed that the journalist M Parrott, the real Hearst press correspondent in Moscow, had sent Hearst reports that were never published concerning the excellent harvest achieved by the Soviet Union in 1933 and on the Ukraine's advancement. Tottle proves as well that the journalist who wrote the reports on the alleged Ukrainian famine, `Thomas Walker', was really called Robert Green and was a convict who had escaped from a state prison in Colorado! This Walker, or Green, was arrested when he returned to the US and when he appeared in court, he admitted that he had never been to the Ukraine. All the lies concerning the millions of dead due to starvation in the Ukraine in the 1930s, in a famine supposedly engineered by Stalin only came to be unmasked in 1987! Hearst, the Nazi, the police agent Conquest and others had conned millions of people with their lies and fake reports. Even today the Nazi Hearst's stories are still being repeated in newly-published books written by authors in the pay of right-wing interests.
www.stalinsociety.org.uk...




In the autumn of 1934, an American using the name of Thomas Walker entered the Soviet Union. After less than a week in Moscow, the remainder of his 13 day stay was spent in transit to the Manchurian border, at which point he left the USSR never to return. Four months later a series of articles began in the Hearst press in America, by Thomas Walker, “noted journalist, traveller and student of Russian affairs who has spent several years touring the Union of Soviet Russia”. The articles described a famine in the Ukraine that had claimed six million lives, and was illustrated with photographs of corpses and starving children. Walker was said to have smuggled in a camera under “the most difficult and dangerous circumstances”.


Louis Fischer, an American writer living in Moscow at the time was suspicious. Why had the Hearst press sat on these sensational stories for ten months before publication? He established that Walker’s short visit to the Soviet Union could not possibly have allowed him to even visit the areas he described and photographed. He also pointed out that Walker’s photographic evidence was distinctly odd: not only were the pictures suggestive of an earlier decade (Fischer thought probably of the 1921 Volga famine) but contained a mixture of scenes taken in both summer and winter. Fischer also noted that the 1933 harvest in the Ukraine had been good.


Some of the pictures were subsequently identified as showing scenes from the Austro-Hungarian empire and World War 1, and it was known that Hearst newspapers were digging up old pictures and retouching them for use as propaganda. Pictures some times appeared labelled as having been taken in Russia, and at other times the same picture is relocated to the Ukraine for obviously political reasons. Not only were the photographs a fraud, and the trip to the Ukraine a fraud, but Thomas Walker himself was a fraud, turning out to be an escaped convict by the name of Robert Green who had served time for forgery. At his subsequent trial following recapture he admitted that his series of pictures used in the Hearst newspaper articles were fakes and were not taken in the Ukraine as stated. Despite these facts, the same photos are still those used in commemoration posters, on web sites and in the film ‘Harvest of Despair’.


www.stalinsociety.org.uk...



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 02:52 AM
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continued...


In 1922 the Soviet Union experienced severe famine conditions in some areas following on from the wars of intervention when imperialist powers had sought to crush the new Soviet state. Famine conditions recurred again in 1933, particularly, but not exclusively, in the Ukraine. There are two versions to this second famine that are radically different. An objective analysis indicates the famine to have resulted from a combination of poor climatic conditions and sabotage on the part of the rich peasants or kulaks in the face of the collectivisation of agriculture. Ukrainian nationalists however argue that the famine was deliberately contrived by Stalin in order to break the spirit of the Ukrainian people, and resulted in millions of needless deaths, in fact death and destruction on such a scale that it dwarfs the Nazi holocaust. Documentary evidence produced to support this claim is often endorsed by academics such as Robert Conquest, or James Mace of Harvard University. Such evidence is shaky in the extreme and often relies on discredited accounts from the 1930’s pro-fascist press in America, or even Nazi documents. Despite this it continues to resurface, most notably in the 1980s as part of an attempt by Ukrainian nationalists to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the famine, and at the same time to fuel the cold war rhetoric of the Reagan era.


The same old grainy photographic images appear time and time again, purporting to show victims of the Ukraine famine, but these are almost always undocumented, or if traced back actually come from famine relief documents from the 1922 famine or even earlier. Cobbled together in the film ‘Harvest of Despair’ such pictures were shown on UK television despite having been rejected by some public service networks in the US because of a blatant lack of objectivity. Ukrainian nationalist organisations in Canada and elsewhere continue to propagate the notion of deliberate famine genocide, while carefully glossing over their own anti-semitic, pro-Nazi and collaborationist origins. A search on the web for ‘Ukrainian Famine Genocide’ resulted in 845 references to this ‘man made’ famine, as usual graphically illustrated with pictures for an earlier era. In this talk I will explore some of the background to these various claims and counter claims, with reference to the excellent book on the subject by Douglas Tottle (Fraud, famine and fascism. The Ukrainian genocide myth from Hitler to Harvard. Progress Books, Toronto, 1987. ISBN 0-919396-51-8
www.stalinsociety.org.uk...



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


20-80 million figure is western propaganda BS , according to KGB archives, Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 7-8 million people


Oh well, that's all right then isn't it? (/sarcasm)

Stalin is just as bad as Hitler or Pol Pot or Saddam Hussein. He's hardly a hero. I would suggest that the KGB archives that have been released to the public aren't the most reliable source either, given the obvious bias they're bound to have.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Ste2652
 


lol, this is getting funny ,




Stalin is just as bad as Hitler or Pol Pot or Saddam Hussein. He's hardly a hero.

and neither is USA any
and Great Britain was worser , murdered 100 million + indians through genocide and stravation in 200 years and millions other in africa and other places ... this is a conservative estimate
according to economist Amartya Sen and Mr.Bhattarcharya, the British Empire may be responsible for the deaths of over 200 million




I would suggest that the KGB archives that have been released to the public aren't the most reliable source either, given the obvious bias they're bound to have.


except that Gorbachev released the archives in 1990 and was a hardcore anti stalinist himself , because he considered many of Stalin's method tsarist (similiar to tsars of pre revolution Russia)



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by Ste2652
reply to Stalin is just as bad as Hitler


Honestly, regardless of the apologetics that Mr.Manson is propagating, Stalin was worse than Hitler ever dreamt of being.



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 12:14 AM
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Manson, you want to play? Okay, I'll play...

www.moreorless.au.com...

Notice that it states that the 14.5 million you mentioned were STARVED to DEATH.. What are the connotations of that? They were DELIBERATELY starved. So don't try to make it out as if Stalin were somehow the unwitting victim of a "famine.." That was not the case at all.However, continue on with your Stalinist apolgetics. I find it rather amusing.


[edit on 21-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 12:27 AM
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This is getting way off topic.

As far as Putin being named "Person of the Year," it really doesn't matter to me. My opinion of him doesn't change because of it. I still, just as I did the first time I ever laid eyes upon him, think he is someone who shouldn't be trusted..

There could have been, and have been, worse people displayed on the front of te "Person of the Year" issue of Time magazine. I personally think this is something that Time should quit doing, honestly. They take flak for it no matter who they choose.

Hell, one year, not too long ago, they put a silhouette on the front of the magazing and said "Person of the Year: You.," and they still received negative feedback.



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


except that the fact is that you are using western source from encyclopeida not KGB archives or russian source , as i said before western propaganda BS ,

and whos the source do you even know ???

Mr.Robert Conquest


In 1922 the Soviet Union experienced severe famine conditions in some areas following on from the wars of intervention when imperialist powers had sought to crush the new Soviet state. Famine conditions recurred again in 1933, particularly, but not exclusively, in the Ukraine. There are two versions to this second famine that are radically different. An objective analysis indicates the famine to have resulted from a combination of poor climatic conditions and sabotage on the part of the rich peasants or kulaks in the face of the collectivisation of agriculture. Ukrainian nationalists however argue that the famine was deliberately contrived by Stalin in order to break the spirit of the Ukrainian people, and resulted in millions of needless deaths, in fact death and destruction on such a scale that it dwarfs the Nazi holocaust. Documentary evidence produced to support this claim is often endorsed by academics such as Robert Conquest, or James Mace of Harvard University. Such evidence is shaky in the extreme and often relies on discredited accounts from the 1930’s pro-fascist press in America, or even Nazi documents. Despite this it continues to resurface, most notably in the 1980s as part of an attempt by Ukrainian nationalists to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the famine, and at the same time to fuel the cold war rhetoric of the Reagan era.
The same old grainy photographic images appear time and time again, purporting to show victims of the Ukraine famine, but these are almost always undocumented, or if traced back actually come from famine relief documents from the 1922 famine or even earlier. Cobbled together in the film ‘Harvest of Despair’ such pictures were shown on UK television despite having been rejected by some public service networks in the US because of a blatant lack of objectivity. Ukrainian nationalist organisations in Canada and elsewhere continue to propagate the notion of deliberate famine genocide, while carefully glossing over their own anti-semitic, pro-Nazi and collaborationist origins. A search on the web for ‘Ukrainian Famine Genocide’ resulted in 845 references to this ‘man made’ famine, as usual graphically illustrated with pictures for an earlier era. In this talk I will explore some of the background to these various claims and counter claims, with reference to the excellent book on the subject by Douglas Tottle (Fraud, famine and fascism. The Ukrainian genocide myth from Hitler to Harvard. Progress Books, Toronto, 1987. ISBN 0-919396-51-8



Another contribution to the famine genocide literature is Walter Dushnyk's "50 years ago: the Famine Holocaust in Ukraine". The foreword to this book is by none other than Dalrymple. Dushnyk's roots can be traced to Europe's pre-war fascist movement when he was active in the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists. Again a critical reviewer comments that this book, "rather than being a scholarly analysis, the material consists of a highly emotionally charged vitriolic polemic. Indeed it has little to do with scholarship and unquestionably is lacking in objectivity". Once again the same faked or undocumented photographs are used as illustrations. Dushnyk calculates the number of famine deaths by projecting an anticipated population growth, based on the 1926 census, onto the listed population census for the Ukraine in 1939. The difference is 7.5 million and this therefore becomes the number of famine victims. The nonsense of this methodology can be demonstrated by transposing to Canada in the 1930s and showing that 25% of Saskatchewan's population disappeared during the great depression. In fact, the population of the Ukraine increased in real terms from 1926 - 1939 by almost 3.4 million. Whilst it is not possible to give an accurate figure for the numbers of famine victims, the claims of people like Dalrymple, Mace and Dushnyk have been shown up as extreme exaggerations fabricated to strengthen their political allegations of genocide.




Conquest's book "Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivisation and the Terror famine" has emerged as the best attempt of the famine-genocidists at legitimacy. Conquest's right wing affiliations and his holocaust denials are now well known. At one time he was employed by the British Secret Service's disinformation project, the Information Research Department, key targets being 'the third world' and the 'Russians'. Conquest's earlier work "The Great Terror" had alleged that only 5-6 million perished in the 1932/3 period and only half of them in the Ukraine. By 1983 Conquest, however, had upped his estimates to 14 million and extended famine conditions to 1937! Such revisions coincided handily with the 50th anniversary commemorations of the famine.
www.stalinsociety.org.uk...


the estimate your source presents comes from Robert conquest , whose crediblity was demolished after Gorbachev opened up the archives and more fallaices in his methods were revealed by Douglas Tottle and Mark Tauger, both historians,

figures from archives:
1.5 million due to various famines from 1926-1933
2.5 million germans
500000 chechens/ingush muslims
700000 during the purges
100000 christian and muslim priests were executed
200000 jews
1 million in the gulag camps
50000 Cossacks in the civil war were executed under his orders
200000 poles
1 million uzbeks

now on the famines:
2 million ukrianians kulaks were exiled by Stalin for counter revolutionary activites out of which 700000 died , and the remaining famine was due bad climatic conditions and concentration rapid industrialization in siberia and volga region



Conquest presents the various nationalist cliques who held parts of the Ukraine during the Russian civil war and foreign intervention as bona fide governments. The mass slaughter of Ukrainian Jews carried out under nationalist 'independence' in 1918-19 is dismissed in 3 words. The Nazi occupation of the Ukraine is presented implicitly as a breakdown between periods of Soviet 'terror' and the liberation from the Nazis as Soviet 'reoccupation'. There are many examples in the book of Conquest's lack of scholarship. One example is him quoting from accounts by a foreign correspondent who turns out to be none other than Thomas Walker, the man who never was. In his reference note for the quote he even moves the date of the Hearst article from 1935 to February 1933. It is worth repeating the observations of American historian J Arch Getty on the quality of this kind of historical research:


"Grand analytical generalisations have come from second hand bits of overheard corridor gossip. Prison camp stories ("my friend met Bukharin's wife in a camp and she said...") have become primary sources on Soviet central political decision making .... the need to generalise from isolated and unverified particulars has transformed rumours into sources and has equated repetition of stories with confirmation".

www.stalinsociety.org.uk...


[edit on 21-12-2007 by manson_322]



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


Uh, I don't mean to interrupt, but I thought that he actually FORCED them to starve to death, did not he?



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by manson_322

except that the fact is that you are using western source from encyclopeida not KGB archives


You honestly expect me, or anyone else for that matter, to view the KGB archive as being unbiased or factual?




[edit on 22-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by TheoOne
 


Is that not what I said?




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