Are Christians Truly "Weak Sheep Who Can't Think For Themselves"?

Well it looks like we just got put in our places by those non-theists again. Guess we'll all have to just give up our faith and turn to science as our new god, right? WRONG!!!!!

The only real problem I have with non-theistic evolution is that it only explains how everything happened. But it miserably fails to explain why.
And while evolution itself may not be a belief system or religion, secular non-theism certainly behaves like a religion. In fact, I have yet to meet an atheist who has not proven themselves to a thousand times more conceited and mouthy than any fundy-literalist-christian that I have ever met. I have yet to meet an atheist who is not focused on abolishing religion and disproving the existence of God. Most of them are actually very intent on pushing their agenda just like their christian counterparts.

Back on topic : I agree with the original post. In a world of opposition, it takes a tremendous amount of strength, courage, and the ability to think for one's self with absolute clarity to stick to one's religious or spiritual convictions....christian or otherwise. The naysayers can say whatever they want. But the OP is quite correct.


[edit on 12/19/2007 by Lightmare]

" stick their commands "

Major. The government is mostly freemasonic, masons founded the country. While they give the appearance of christianity, they are masons, and believers in the lucifer cult or every religion goes.

The ten commands are ten simple rules for a peacful world, just like dad gave me rules when a kid, God gives us them. Since he created the universe I think he klnows something about us.

" evolution is a fact "

No, thats false. Even sincere athiest will tell you there is no missing link, and not one fossil, and that its a theory.


The bottom line is, the ability to see. You guys, God bless your souls, but you cant see. I dont know if its sins, or not wanting to bow down, but creation is so incredibly seeable.


Man and Women are (perfectly made) for each other. Our body function work to support our daily routines. We Eat go to bathroom, we have specific organs. We have incredible complexity in ourbopdies.

I just posted about st gemma. 2000 years of recorded miracles of Christ in the saints lives, ive seen miracles as well as well as many people all over the earth.

Its like people just wont give God a chance. there is no blind following. The things I have seen you will see soon, and you will come face to face with him.


As for the original poster. Please keep Christ in your mind, and pray for me, because I need it too.

and have a good Christmas, sing, laugh, enjoy God please. Because these forums can be a downer.

peace.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

" stick their commands "

Major. The government is mostly freemasonic, masons founded the country. While they give the appearance of christianity, they are masons, and believers in the lucifer cult or every religion goes.

um... that's unfounded malarkey

The ten commands are ten simple rules for a peacful world, just like dad gave me rules when a kid, God gives us them. Since he created the universe I think he klnows something about us.

i'm sorry, but i fail to see how not worshiping idols contributes to world peace
or how the first commandment contributes to world peceace

or how lumping women in with property does that...

" evolution is a fact "

No, thats false. Even sincere athiest will tell you there is no missing link, and not one fossil, and that its a theory.

of course there's no "missing link" as the concept is an argument used by those that don't truly understand the theory of evolution

do you know what else is a theory? cell biology. do you question that your body is made of cells?

what you don't seem to understand (aside from the theory of evolution) is that a theory can be a fact.

The bottom line is, the ability to see. You guys, God bless your souls, but you cant see. I dont know if its sins, or not wanting to bow down, but creation is so incredibly seeable.

it isn't the ability to see here, it's your inability to admit that reality doesn't conform to your narrow religious views and your inability to even examine the theory of evolution properly.

Man and Women are (perfectly made) for each other. Our body function work to support our daily routines. We Eat go to bathroom, we have specific organs. We have incredible complexity in ourbopdies.

then why are women more susceptible to urinary tract infections?
why do men have a ticking timebomb in their reproductive system?
why do men have nipples?

I just posted about st gemma. 2000 years of recorded miracles of Christ in the saints lives, ive seen miracles as well as well as many people all over the earth.

and yet those "recorded miracles" can never be substantiated with evidence... curious
did you know the hindu religion claims to have an extra thousand or so years of miracles on top of what your religion claims

Its like people just wont give God a chance. there is no blind following. The things I have seen you will see soon, and you will come face to face with him.

ok, last night i laid in bed thinking "what if i'm wrong? maybe i should try that whole 'open your heart up to god' thing again." and i did. i attempted to pray, i sincerely asked any divine presence thingy (did not use the word thingy at the time) to reveal itself to me. i opened my heart up to christ... nadda. wasn't hoping to be proven right, wasn't hoping to be proven wrong, but absolutely nothing happened. after jesus i went down the list of deities i could think of, still nothing.

how do you explain that.

Oh, I love it when theists with absolutely no understanding of evolution try to tell me what it is. I needed a laugh this morning, thank you!

If you won't use anything that is "just a theory" then get off your computer (computer theory), stop watching TV and using any appliances battery operated or not (electrical theory), and -- hey! -- better stop living too, because your body runs on cell theory among other things.

There are no transitional forms. Because evolution doesn't stop when it gets to some predetermined point -- it just keeps on going.

The closest thing to a transitional form you'll find is archaeopteryx, which should be more than enough evidence for those who cling to the false belief that there have to transitional forms. Even a creationist can see that it's part lizard, part bird.

Oh, one more point. Science isn't like the bible. You don't get to go through all the various theories and disciplines and pick the ones you agree with and discard the ones you don't. Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. You either embrace the scientific method and its fruits in its entirety or you may as well go live in a cave wearing leaves for clothes and starving, because science is what makes your world worth living in.

BTW your bible is printed using machinery, which is scientifically designed. Better stop reading it too!

MajorMalfunction and Madnessinmysoul,

Not all religious people question the validity of evolution. Some of us actually accept it. We just question the whole part about it being accidental. I fail to see why you would have such a problem with that.
But thankyou both for proving just how correct the second paragraph of my previous post really is. Atheists really are just as bad as fundy-literalist-christians when it comes to pushing their agends.

By the way, Madness....if I was God, I probably wouldn't have answered that sorry excuse for a prayer either.

And one more thing...this thread is not about creation vs evolution. It is about the strength and clarity of thought that it takes for one to stand strong in their convictions in a world that is opposed to them. Just thought I would remind everybody.

Originally posted by LightmareNot all religious people question the validity of evolution. Some of us actually accept it. We just question the whole part about it being accidental.

And one more thing...this thread is not about creation vs evolution. It is about the strength and clarity of thought that it takes for one to stand strong in their convictions in a world that is opposed to them. Just thought I would remind everybody.

Well said, thank you.

It is about the strength and clarity of thought that it takes for one to stand strong in their convictions in a world that is opposed to them. Just thought I would remind everybody.

Aye, being an atheist in a theistic world isn't always easy.

reply to post by Lightmare


i made a point of specifically saying that there are religious people who accept the theory of evolution, re-read my posts.

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

Originally posted by LightmareNot all religious people question the validity of evolution. Some of us actually accept it. We just question the whole part about it being accidental.

And one more thing...this thread is not about creation vs evolution. It is about the strength and clarity of thought that it takes for one to stand strong in their convictions in a world that is opposed to them. Just thought I would remind everybody.

Well said, thank you.

Amen.

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron
I was inspired to write it after reading post after post here on ATS and many other message boards that are directed at Christians saying that they're "weak" people who "blindly follow like sheep" .

Well I don't doubt that is the case some of the time . In other cases people can or could be looking to explain the unexplainable and maybe even reassurance .

So, to start off you basically have two choices when it comes to how we got here. Either you believe in the Creator and the validity of the Scriptures, or you believe in the theory of evolution.

Yeah there is choice between proven fact and a system that relies on faith rather then evidence . There is no choice for me any belief system that relies on faith is bogus IMO.

Those who believe in evolution largely believe that Christians are "blind followers Or are they blindly following what scientists have told you to believe?"

That would be true so if I believed every scientific theory going around but I don't. Global warming ranks second on my list frauds behind the existence of a higher power.

Isn't agreeing with what Scientists say in regards to their theories of evolution in fact the same as the "not thinking for yourself" you accuse Christians of?

False comparison there evidence to support evolution there is no evidence what so ever to back up religious mumbo jumbo . You should know more clump atheists all together then some should lump Christians together.

As for the original poster. Please keep Christ in your mind, and pray for me, because I need it too.

and have a good Christmas, sing, laugh, enjoy God please. Because these forums can be a downer.

peace.

My new friend, you bring up something else I feel is worthy of mentioning. Keeping Christ first and foremost in your mind ALSO takes strength - there's SO much in this world trying to derail us all the time!

May I make a suggestion on how to keep these forums from being such a downer and keep Christ in mind at the same time? I find it works to just not enter into debates with people. Recognize the signs when you're being baited into one. You'll know them as you know the seasons. Let people have their say and leave it up to Father to speak (or not speak) to their hearts. Shake the dust. It's what Christ did.

Have a fabulous CHRISTmas! You will most definitely be in my prayers.

[edit on 21-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]

baaaah*

baaaah*

*eats some straw and feed off the petting zoo floor*

naw screw that, i'd be lining up at the food dispensers, just put in 25 cents and a whole bunch of feed comes out, yeah!

just wait under the feed machine waiting for people to drop a couple pieces, that is definitely me.

Last I checked, believing in Evolution or Creationism has no thing to do with being defined as Chrisitian. Now, I am a Catholic, I know this is a shock to some, but not to all as I have seen in this forum, but I believe in Evolution. I find it that no thing is wrong with the credible evidence of the formation that our biology is from apes.

Last I checked the Bible is not entirely to be used as a just for historical accounts, that there are parables and stories which have great definition of morality, God and so many other things. I personally believe that all things come from God, even our biology, now the process of things is upto the very nature of things in which God's will has intended them to be.

There is a missing link between man and what we consider ape, we may take this as evidence that we are not from the Ape, or we can take it as just to be discovered later on. I see a very great deal of similarity in biology so I take it that we came from the ape.

Our biology is obviously one bounded by nature, and it conforms to it. So if everything else that has a biology has been shown to have an evolution, then part of me is biological so it to must have evolved.

The problem lies in two false dichotemies:

1. Christians believe in only Creationism and Atheists in only Evolution.

2. There is only Evolution and Creationism to explain man in the Universe.

For those of you who are Catholic, or consider Catholics are Christian (which you should), the Big Bang theory was a theory theorized by a French Catholic Priest, who did not break away from the Church, because of this. The idea of Big Bang is considered as a possibility my Catholics. The idea of Evolution of the ape is theorized as highly possible as being from ape. It is not a doctrine, because they need further evidence. The Catholic Church is full of scientists aswell. Other forms of Christianity believe in Evolution as well.

The story of Genesis is the story of not so much of historical accuracy, but a story of man as priest and woman as temple. Man was created by the 4 corners of the universe to show his cosmic responsibilty to the Universe, and woman was made of man to hold what man stood for as a temple. She is what holds his faith together, and he is what gives her to hold. They are both beautifully dependant on each other.

Notice no Jews are arguing this, because they understand it that way, they are the ones who Christ came to. What has happened to the translation has been the Great Divorce from the Catholic Church which is rooted in Jewish tradition to other people starting their own religions.

They then make up these stories to their own contemporary understanding when they were written by men who meant to explain man's relationship with the Universe.

So yes I personally disagree with Creationism, because it taints the very definition of Genesis. But I am also against atheist poor definition of God. They look at God from the historical sense, and do not understand God from what God is.

God is not some image of Zeus, a being. God is rather Being itself. As a Catholic I believe he is three Persons in Being. Because it is not good to be alone, and Father is an eternal claim not one necessary of a finite man. God then indeed did always have a Son and God does not change. And The Father's Love is Perfect for his Son and His Son's Love for His Father Is Perfect, and the only thing Perfect is God, so Their Love too is God, So therefore a Third Person. So God is a Family. A perfect unchanging one, which allows in its perfection for things to be, so thus we are. Because it is in its Perfect Nature that things become, because it is not for Itself, so thus we are.

This is a more tolerable reflection on what is God, not your poppycock definition. Try now to disprove God as not Being Being Perfection itself, and things in the universe not being through this definition. It sure is better than your crappy foundation of being from Nothing.

And that is all. God Bless.