Is there such a thing as good and evil?

positive / negative
good / bad
good / evil
god / devil
yin / yang

etc.... The Atom, the building block of matter contains positive and negative. You can equate that to everything in life. Wikipdedia:An atom is electrically neutral if it has the same number of protons as electrons.

That's where I stand.... I'm neutral!

reply to post by Nohup


Who cares what society thinks. What do you think is the question. Society as a whole is probably a good idea.

Read Guns, Germs & Steel- you will find that societies are and always have been a huge problem- problems that lead inevitably to evil behaviors- most of which are all about control.

Is there such a thing as good and evil?

Yes.

To me, evil best defined is all de facto and actual slavery. It is, above all, ignorance. It's ubertotalitarian secrecy; the most tangled of webs (for example). Yes, evil, which is really simply pathology (which encompasses all the other clinical terms), is an entirely real and objective thing. It's not the way of sufficiently-enlightened civilizations. That's not saying I believe it's possible to eliminate all bad behavior and feelings... I predict the word pathocracy will become popular someday.

The willingness to cause pain and suffering is evil. The willingness to help and bring comfort to other peoples lives is good.

If you can't tell the difference between good and evil, then there is something wrong with your conscience. Yes different cultures exist but it should be obvious in ones own mind whether an action is good or evil.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by dodgygeeza]

as ive said in another thread..

"good and evil" doesn't exist imo, we are survivalist machines trying to perpetuate our genes. don't be propagated by hollywood and harry potter (and definitely some religions).

so fundamentally i see this discussion as flawed.

i would also just like to add that morality (good) and selfishness (evil) without doubt do exist in humans and have played their part in ensuring our survival throughout evolutionary history. however i see this far from being the "good vs evil" idealistic ideology? being discussed in this thread.

Originally posted by cheeser
as ive said in another thread..

"good and evil" doesn't exist imo, we are survivalist machines trying to perpetuate our genes. don't be propagated by hollywood and harry potter (and definitely some religions).

so fundamentally i see this discussion as flawed.

i would also just like to add that morality (good) and selfishness (evil) without doubt do exist in humans and have played their part in ensuring our survival throughout evolutionary history. however i see this far from being the "good vs evil" idealistic ideology? being discussed in this thread.

So causing suffering deliberately for the fun of it isn't evil? And helping people survive is just someone's opinion of being good?

Silly thread.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by dodgygeeza]

Originally posted by Seiju
If I may ask where did you get that opinion from?

My brain I guess.

No, I don't believe that there's such a thing as good and evil. I believe that all actions are a matter of perception and based on individual and societal morals and ethics.

To use a tired example, if I steal a loaf of bread to feed my starving family, you as the baker who prepared the bread and who's livelihood depends on selling the bread, may view my theft as wrong or evil, while I may view it as good or a positive because I was able to feed my family with said bread.

Lastly, using individual and societal morals and ethics as a standard. I believe it's impossible to call any individual or group of individuals as wholly good or wholly evil. In the end we're all just shades of grey...

Too understand the difference between good and evil you need to see the difference between laws and morals. Most actions are open to interpretation depending on what side you are on. It would be hard to argue Hitler anything other than evil but I'm sure to some he was a necessity. I guess you could say good and evil are in the eye of the beholder.

There are however, things, which are good, and things, which are evil.

Good and Evil are character traits IMO and is the decision of each one of us, whether we will live our lives doing good things for our society or doing evil things in our society. Moreover, I disagree that one persons good is another persons evil.

Rape, murder, Child molestation can never be considered good on any scale no matter how you slice it. Alternatively, living your life doing good will and good acts such as contributing to the happiness of the less fortunate in our society, or helping an old women across the street, or protecting someone from those who would do them harm can never be seen as evil any way you slice it.

Read my signature because this is the only thing anyone can truly control.

well depends on how you define evil. I believe there is such a thing as just about every culture had parameters on how to and not to behave for the safety and well-being of its citizens, so sure id say evil exists.

The nature of one wanting desperately to inflict harm on others for sheer pleasure i would think is 'evil', wouldn't you?

Lets define evil first:

Evil, pretty much, is just selfishness, about the self and not others. Luciferian Satanists pride themselves on this fact and it is a MAJOR component of their belief system.

Serial Killers can be described as evil as they are governed by their selfish impulses that ultimately end in the killing of another, and usually not just killing, but torturous mutilation as well.

Even in Native American culture, they clearly seperated both as good and evil..there is an old indian saying "There are 2 dogs within each of us, one good and one bad, depending on which you feed the most, will determine your nature"...something to that effect.

Good can be defined as a selfless nature, the sacrifice, and goodwill toward others in the form of compassion and trusting relationships.

so i would say clearly both exist.

Originally posted by dodgygeeza
The willingness to cause pain and suffering is evil. The willingness to help and bring comfort to other peoples lives is good.

If you can't tell the difference between good and evil, then there is something wrong with your conscience. Yes different cultures exist but it should be obvious in ones own mind whether an action is good or evil.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by dodgygeeza]

I would absolutly agree with this if upbringing and personal teachings were all done the same way at an early age. Of course they will never be the same for everyone, so this falls on the shoulders of parents and peers in how they will teach thier kids and friends about how to conduct themselves in society. I agree that one should be able to tell right from wrong, but if they have not been conditioned to view right and wrong in a certain way then one would have no concept of right and wrong or good VS evil.

I find that society is moving more toward evil then to good. Corruption, Greed, Envy are all becoming normal in todays society IMO. Self preservation, egotistical behavior, pushing personal agendas on others etc. is more pronounced today then ever.

Originally posted by Seiju
Is there such a thing as good and evil? I believe there isn't .

I don't believe there is, either. "Good" and "evil" are two different perspectives that one could have for anything.

I think there is a harmonious way of thinking and acting, which promotes an order and consciousness/self-awareness in the universe, as opposed to the concept of entropy, where if things are let to sit dumbly they tend to rot away, etc. In other words I can see life and life forces in the universe as a self-aware and intelligent counterbalance to the mechanical and "dumb" parts of the universe subject to laws of thermodynamics and entropy (ie they can only lose energy and deteriorate over time, but not necessarily so for intelligent life). But these can be seen as only processes, and whether they are "good" or "bad" to you depends on your perspective.

reply to post by Seiju


I got three things here. #1 We always end up quoting Charles Manson " If God is one. how can I be evil?" #2 If you're not already versed, you have fun ahead of you as you read Nietzsche " On The Genealogy Of Morals ". The hot part is the difference between the life-flavors of people who divide things up good-vs-bad ( where bad is more like unsuitable, as in this bad wrench is made of Jello ) vs. those who do it good-vs-evil. I don't want to summarize the arguments, but if you like this topic, happiness awaits you. #3 Friend of mine used to opine that the most evil thing you can do to a child is to teach them the golden rule, that passing along that meme is like giving a virus that causes a crippling weakness, so that when you teach it you are not practicing it. Then he and I would dispute because if the teacher doesn't see it as a crippling weakness... plus I'd try to make him unpack the different meanings of "evil"... you can see us talking this one for weeks, right...There was correctness in his position but inelegantly expressed. I should take three weeks and nail all of this down...project number 10027...

It has nothing to do with being influenced by society because even a newborn baby will cryout if inflicted with pain, whether intentional or not.

FYI, I'm not trying to make a religious statement so keep your athi-muzzles on...

reply to post by MuLongQun

Someone kills and defiles your family, girlfriend son etc. You see a tape recording it was your next door neighbour. You run over with a gun knife and stab him/her until death. It was intentional and it was in cold blood. People will debate whether this is good or evil won’t they?

War is normally intentional and in cold blood. Is this good or evil?

You are a cult leader and ask your followers to drink a glass of “cool aid”. They do it. Is this good or evil. Since you did not “directly” kill them but merely suggest it too them.

You are an executioner for your government. You are intentionally killing someone. Are you evil?

You kill a drug dealer in your neighbour hood because your best friend overdosed on a drug that was sold to him. Are you evil?

Cold blooded murder is also hard to define. Let alone good or evil.

If you kill someone whether intentionally or out of vengeance it is still wrong because you are allowing yourself to be influenced by evil. You're only human, so it's up to you how much you will allow the R-Complex, or cold-blooded, reptilian brain to control your actions.


reply to post by zephyrs

To use a tired example, if I steal a loaf of bread to feed my starving family, you as the baker who prepared the bread and who's livelihood depends on selling the bread, may view my theft as wrong or evil, while I may view it as good or a positive because I was able to feed my family with said bread.

You may not be necessarily evil but again you are being allowed to be influenced to some degree by evil because you knew it was wrong to steal in the first place. Probably best to ask to work for the loaf of bread and put the ball on the Baker's side of the court.

Wrong is wrong but if you are going to err it is best to err on the side of love. If you are sincere if asking for forgiveness you will be forgiven.


reply to post by dodgygeeza

The willingness to cause pain and suffering is evil. The willingness to help and bring comfort to other peoples lives is good.

If you can't tell the difference between good and evil, then there is something wrong with your conscience. Yes different cultures exist but it should be obvious in ones own mind whether an action is good or evil.

I agree!

I agree with the statement that good and evil do not ''really'' exist, they are mere ways of perceiving actions as one of both.

As such, there is also no true ''honor'' or ''ethics'' or anything, as again, that is just the way it is perceived.

As far as I care, the only thing that good & evil are, are 2 words that have been associated with a special definition, that covers a broad subject of actions.

However in the end it is all mere perspective.

I follow my own code of conduct, and I consider myself quite "neutral".

However, I am not afraid to fight fire with fire, or to fight with lesser evil to prevent the bigger evil, should the situation where it is required, arrive.

However by no means does this mean that I do not realize that killing someone is most likely a "bad" thing (in the sense of that the experience for the victim might not be the highest thing in his "last things to do before I die" list)

Example of perspective:
John kills Ben for no reason at all.
Is John Evil?

Yes:
Because he destroyed life, and as such Ben lost all chance to get a life full of joyful experiences.

No, John is good:
Because he destroyed life, and as such Ben no longer has the chance to experience the bad stuff about life, no more chance to be sinful, no more chance to starve to death, be tortured, put in jail for no reason. etc.

Another example of perspective:
John squashes a Flower
Is John Evil?

Yes:
Because he harmed nature.
No:
Because the government is opposed to nature and calls it evil.

All a matter of perspective, and nothing more than binding actions to words.


[edit on 19/12/07 by -0mega-]

reply to post by shug7272



Excellent reply. You said what I wanted to say, only you said it better.

Relativism is a lie. People would rather believe the lie than accept that there are universal truths because believing the lie requires no change on their part. If all is relative, then you can do whatever you want, without consequence or guilt. But when you get right down to it, relativism will only get you so far. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. You must test it. If you jump off a building believing you can fly, you'll still fall to the ground.

[edit on 12/19/07 by GirlNextDoor]

What is good and what is bad on my mind is just an agreement. I like one Chinese proverb – “To do good, means to do as it is needed.” That means not better, not worse. Possibly we may add, “needed at a time of doing?” Because sometime later, or some time before it may look terrible?

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by Seiju

 

There is the "creator of all things" known in the general term as "God".

There are things welcomed by God, these things are wanted and they are judged by God to be Good.

There are things unwelcomed by God, these things are unwanted and they are judged by God to be Evil.

Evil is a term misunderstood. It's truest meaning is "unwanted by God".

Ironically, when people judge other people to be "evil" they are actually doing something that is unwanted by God so they themselves with their greezy little pointing fingers are being evil.

I agree. Evil is to be judged by no one except God.

reply to post by Seiju


If evil and good didn't exist, we wouldn't be discussing those 2 things. Use common-sense. You're not dumb. Deny ignorance. Only ignorant & evil people would claim that good and evil do not exist.