NEW: Civility and Decorum are Required

While I applaud the ownership's efforts to address this challenge, (I don't envy you), I think the real issue is fundamentally connected to the point raised by MemoryShock.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
...I would like to add that posting a reply out of context of the thread topic and/or flow of discussion is as well detrimental to the converstaion.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

For example, thread titles have become largely meaningless. Too often one begins to read a thread expecting interesting discussion on a specific topic, only to find that by page two, it has hopelessly taken a turn that never revisits the original topic as framed by the OP.

If I really consider the matter, I realize that what originally drew me to this website was the degree to which "fringe" subject matter could be explored in a quasi-academic manner. Straying off topic was a social faux pas... Posts were frequently made with tons of supporting links.... One was challenged frequently on the "facts" or the "logic" of a position... Courtesy wasn't made mandatory, it just seemed already a part of the membership's culture...

For whatever reason, those things seem less true today.

In terms of a solution, I can't help but wonder whether enforcing a "stay on topic" rule would be an easier and more effective path to follow than one that seeks to mandate the "courteousness" of posts? The former, by proxy, addresses the latter and also helps to address an altogether different, but equally troubling, problem.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
In my opinion, directing attention to people getting banned detracts from the flow of thought. This board, correct me if I am wrong, is about the stories and discussions...not the people who are no longer here.

I agree.



While I like the improved graphic (pretty funny actually), I hope the ownership in time comes to favor a less obtrusive process than one that places these banners directly into threads. Simple text indicating a 'post has been deleted for failing to meet the requirements of the T&C' would be less intrusive, imo.

Regardless, I do hope the owners are successful in their attempts, by whatever means, to improve this problem. I think it will be tough going no matter what they do.

The reality is that the primary burden rests with the membership. ATS is what the membership makes of it. The ownership might be able to provide for civility, but can the rest of us make this a meaningful place to be?

Maybe the website's tag line, "Deny Ignorance", should be given more real estate on this website...

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this!! I was backing off more and more from posting and it was becoming "another site". I love ATS and i love the people i get to interact with. It was not like looking at a screan for some info but it truly was and is interaction akin to sitting in a pub or by the pool chatting to friends about any and all sorts of topics.

I applaud the management for this move and I have to say I take my hat off to the Mods who have actually, in my opinion, done a sterling job in the time i have been here. To be honest, one can learn from one's mistakes and it is a life lesson. You can learn to "listen" and learn or be close minded and disrupt. The choice is a personal one for anyone. I chose to learn and I have had warnings BUT, as intrepid pointed out, more applauses are handed out than warnings and i can attest to that.

in the last couple of days i have not spent much time on ATS and usually i sit on it all day and have a peak every now and again - ok every 5 minutes (happy now? LOL)

OK can i get my Subject Matter Expert icon now for music? LOL - just going to wipe my nose off...

But seriously, i cannot think of any site that gives as much attention to quality as ATS via the management and mods. Mods only become a pain or an"evil" if you deserve it and don't realize it!!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


To some degree, I think it's a culture clash with Americans . . .

Espeially us OUT WEST . . . LOL.

We are used to free for alls in a lot of contexts even without our six shooters.

Add in the web psychodynamics . . .

Nevertheless, I think the civility issue is an essential one as a worthy one given the worthy goals of ATS and you founders.

I wish the new rules etc. well.

I'd also like to see some supervising moderators trained and paid.

I think some of the moderator abuses leave folks of my perspective more than a little outraged.

I realize that abuse like beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder but sometimes it degree of biased slapdowns gets really extreme. Then the haughty self-righteous defense of such outrageously biased slapdowns gets even worse.

Not sure what the solution to that is besides paid trained vetted supervising mods who won' put up with THAT.

######

BTW,

I notice on my points . . . having just posted a bunch on a thread for the first time in months . . .

replies to my posts did not earn any points. Has that changed?

Anyway--CHEERS in your efforts to enforce CIVILITY.

Very BRITISH somehow.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Actually, I notice I've posted 3-5 times and my points have not changed. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong points category? Hadn't thought of that.

I think this is great because as a new commer on ATS I was kind of weary and carefull in not to write or post something that might entice or enrage someones hidden agendas and in turn cause written attacks.

It would be a relief knowing this procedure would control the course of these actions and I personally welcome it, and I salute you for your concern.

OK, this one has me scared. It is working already.

Every day when I log onto ATS I half expect my login to not work.

I think I exist on that fine line between being an old member and being a ban hammer victim.

Funny thing is, though, half of the time I think to my self "cavscout, you really shouldn’t post that, you are going to get a warn" I actually end up getting an applause.

So those good content posts I used to be scarred to make yet get applause for will definitely be seeing the delete button before they even see the light of day.

When you overdo it on the discipline you stifle creativity and productiveness. Although your intent is to raise the quality of posts, you may actually see the opposite.

The fact is that you can’t remove the truth. The truth is, people have strong feelings about the issues on this board. You can’t have honest discussion if you remove the feeling, WE ARENT VULCANS.

You know why Stephen King is such a successful author, why everyone reads his stuff? He doesn’t leave out the vulgarity in his character’s dialogue. He stays TRUE to the human side of things.

Do you want us to stay true, to keep it real, or do you want us to be your army of Spocks?


[edit on 19-12-2007 by cavscout]

Originally posted by marg6043
Like my good friend and ATS member FyersFan said in a post it "comes in waves." Wise words.

I'm going to frame this!!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Why then, is there not a flag for Applauses in the mini profile, just like the red flag, and link directly to the post which warranted an applause?

I like that. We used to have those who had received applause have their names listed each time they got applause. It was on the main page. I'd LOVE to see that back ... but with a link to the post(s) that got the applause.

Excellent Rockpuck!!

I LIKE the new graphic. I hope that this doesn't mean the end of the red flag warnings. I think those are definately needed as well.

Originally posted by cavscout
Do you want us to stay true, to keep it real, or do you want us to be your army of Spocks?

Nope but how about Picard's? He was passionate but he seldom let his passions overtake him. See the difference?

Originally posted by intrepid
Nope but how about Picard's? He was passionate but he seldom let his passions overtake him. See the difference?

Good one. Point taken.

HOWEVER, Picard was a rare man. You can’t expect that level self control from the average member.

Not to mention that when leadership and respect are earned and well established, as in the case of Picard or an ATS mod, raising ones voice and saying something for the shock value to get point heard is rarely necessary.

You cant a bunch of Picards and still appeal to a mega large audience.

I can’t believe we are using Star Trek characters to illustrate our points.


[edit on 19-12-2007 by cavscout]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

This is long overdue IMHO-Thanks SO. There are quite a few members here, both newbies and veterans alike who just troll up and down the entire first page of certain forums tossing out underhanded and insulting garbage. Their sole purpose appears to be to derail the discussions by continual belittling. I will be happy to see some of these members get called on it. Enough is enough.


[edit on 19-12-2007 by DimensionalDetective]

hmm...we don't have some of probation period or "buffer" period for the newcomers on this site? i think that would/should filter out a lot of these threads that are basically nonsense. like on other forums the "Search" button is pushed forward a lot for new members and having like a probationary period before they can be taken seriously to show that they aren't just there to screw around.

many many times, especially lately..after reading new threads/discussions i just wanted to say..well things like "Wtf?" and some more flavorful disagreements; and other members, mostly newer ones and "veteran members" take those threads/topic discussions seriously and i'm like.."are you kidding me? you should know better than that..you been here how long?"

As I've said before I would much rather someone insult me personally than to viciously attack my God and Faith.

I have no problem debating atheistic views that stay civil nor is a very good joke going to upset me but I hope this new policy does go beyond personal insult and it looks as though it does.

I can tell you that in the past couple months I have seen some really bad attacks. In fact one poster even made a threat against me and the "west" in that teacher/Mohammad thread. I was shocked that the post was there when I checked the thread a week after making my own post.

I am guilty of throwing a few jokes out there from time to time. Having a very dry sense of humor can get me in trouble as often my humor has a whoosh effect on some people.

We can only wait and see how it goes.

Yay civility!

Sometimes everyone needs a reminder.

It is also a good idea to define civility. It definitely means different things to different people.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


like the idea
nothing like have a civilized discussion

but couldnt you have made a better picture
sorry had to say
is it hilery clinton made out to look like a grand mother?
looks awful

All tho I think that people should keep their maners, I also think that it's important to let people speek free, some of them might seem more sarcastic, gouchy, more nervos.... or contradictory(my case).
As long as people do not use bad languege or personal inults to other users on the board I think people should be able to be sarcastic, grouchy .excetera or we would all look like a bunch of robots, anything other than that would undermine the free speach expresion, after all it's about who we are and what we are like as a character, this is what makes this forum so great, it would a loss to step on that, I enjoy seeing a diversity of behaviors on ATS.

Originally posted by pepsi78
As long as people do not use bad languege or personal inults to other users on the board I think people should be able to be sarcastic, grouchy .excetera or we would all look like a bunch of robots,

I couldn't have put it better. ATS isn't looking for robots. Robots learn nothing and share less. Sarcasm, grouchy? Why not? BUT as long as you don't cross the line to the bold above, what's the problem. This is MY opinion, and pepsi's. Funny, we seldom agree. It's nice.

Well, it's one thing to be passionate or "grouchy about a certain topic. It is something entirely different to devolve into calling someone a "worthless piece of whatever."

I can be accused of a lot of things but one thing I have never done and most likely never will is call someone an expletive... I will and have put people on ignore before I stoop to that level.

Fabulous! I applaud you guys. Let's swat all of these insects that invade our homeland called ATS! How dare we allow these rats to infest this very institution we enjoy called ATS.

Let us revel in the joy of the ATS gods, that give me the freedom each and every day to spout my ignorance across the globe.

I love you guys just like I love god, because, you are in fact "gods". You have the ability to end someones existence with the stroke of your hand(just like "god" can end someones life).

You guys are the masters of the universe(the ATS universe) and I kneel down and devote my soul to you guys.

P.S. I love you.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


i have just found the funniest Flaw in this
dont know if this has been pointed out
so appoligies if it has


will Mods also be editing Quotes of the posts they remove?
because if you look at all posts that were censored
they can easily be read in quote by someone else who replied to them

[edit on 24-12-2007 by bodrul]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I agree. We are a mature, intelligent board that doesn't need to run down another board member's opinion.

I try not to run anybody else's opinion down and act mature. I am 44, so if I can't behave mature on a board then something is wrong with me.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but not at the disrespect of another person.

People's voices are valuable and their views, also. However, it shouldn't come at the cost of name calling, or anything that shows disrespect to somebody else.

I always try to remember that before I answer any forum. If it is something too close to me, I either bite my tongue, or read what others have to say. Sometimes, if somebody says something out of ignorance, I ignore them. However, if they show what made them feel so strongly by a link, I check it out.

I won't condemn another member of the board for their views. We have one of the greatest freedoms and that is the 'freedom of speech', but that freedom shouldn't be allowed to impose itself on another person in a disrespectful manner.

I have read some topics which are quite heated in their debate, and I guess people forget that real people exist in cyberspace and are vulnerable. Just because we can't be seen, our voices can be heard. We have to remember the power of the words in which we write and that they can cause harm or offense to another sitting on the other end reading what we have written.

We are not chips and binary circuits, but real people communicating and it is a privilege that we shouldn't take for granted.

Just because we can't see each other doesn't give us any excuse to be anti-social and disagreeable. Respect is the name of the game. One of the things that I do like about ATS is that we are allowed to voice our views constructively and respectfully, which is something which isn't seen on many boards.

We don't have to run another member down to give our opinion. If you feel strongly about something provide a link.

We are not perfect, none of us are, and we tend to forget that. However, regardless we belong to one race, 'the human race', which makes us who and what we are. We can debate without anti-social behaviour, because we are a group of intelligent, like-minded people. It is a privilege to be a member of ATS.

I have made friends on this board and have learned a lot from other members. When I am not contributing to the board, I am reading and taking on board other people's views.

The world isn't black and white, and it isn't simple. The world is complex, the universe is complex and we are complex. It is the complexities that bond us here on the board of ATS and we are working together to understands the ties that bind us.

love, light and peace to all of you