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Chemtrails question for Americans!

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posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Astyanax

Originally posted by Paul the seeker
Congratulations you reached your goal, you just successfully debunked.

Can my thread now continue the topic as intended?

That was more a challenge than an attempt to debunk. I'm just asking you to show me what you've got.

I hope that, as the thread continues, we may see some of it.

For example, what chemicals do you believe are in chemtrails? How do you know this?

And what is the purpose of chemtrail spraying? How do you know this?

Who is spraying chemtrails?

And so on...


OK, I must jump in here. KSLA TV in Lousiana did a news segment on chemtrails (apparently they wanted to lose their FCC license). They took a sample and sent it to an independent testing lab.
grandmacaesar.com...
They contained lead, barium, chromium and arsenic (in order of concentration).

www.rense.com...

The people who are controlling the weather are more interested in destroying crops for geopolitical purposes (weaponized weather modification) and for economic purposes than for "benefiting farmers." If you buy agricultural commodities futures (rights to buy farm products in the future at a given price) and then destroy this crop around the world using CWM to raise the price (supply and demand) you really "make a killing" in every sense of the word.

the.honoluluadvertiser.com...

Wheat futures contracts for March delivery surged above $10.09 per bushel in trading in Chicago, before closing at $9.66 — about double the price of a year ago. Grain prices have soared in recent months, with corn at $4.39 a bushel — compared with about $3 in 2006 — and soybeans at more than 30-year highs. Dairy and rice prices also have spiked.

Wheat prices are jumping for a number of reasons, including bad weather....

www.chemtrailcentral.com...

Who are the responsible parties?

The largest number of reports seems to be from the US, followed by Canada. Several other countries have some reports, often noted by western visitors. Since reports are coming from multiple countries, it seems to transcend individual governments. But with no obvious controlling body the answer remains to be seen.
Country
United Nations
NATO Member
NATO Partner

United States
yes
yes
Canada
yes
yes
United Kingdom
yes
yes
France
yes
yes
Germany
yes
yes
Netherlands
yes
yes
Italy
yes
yes
Sweden
yes
no
yes
Croatia
yes
no
yes
Australia
yes
no
no
Mexico
yes
no
no
New Zealand
yes
no
no
Haiti
yes
no
no


Hope this helps.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by tnangela]

[edit on 19-12-2007 by tnangela]




posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by tnangela

www.rense.com...

The people who are controlling the weather are more interested in destroying crops for geopolitical purposes (weaponized weather modification) and for economic purposes than for "benefiting farmers." If you buy agricultural commodities futures (rights to buy farm products in the future at a given price) and then destroy this crop around the world using CWM to raise the price (supply and demand) you really "make a killing" in every sense of the word.


I am gonna bite on this. What that rense article states is completely unplausible. Reflecting sunlight will raise the pressure but not on the scale that article states. In reality this happens naturally because cloud cover reflects sunlight. The pressure difference will only be 1 to 2 hPa and will be so short lived it wont even make a change. So yeah, we can control the weather on a small scale, but we dont need to spray anything and the effect is so minimal that anyone trying to control a storm and destroy crops etc etc, would be looking for better ways to do it

Oh and rense is crap



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by tnangela
 


That report/investigation, did NOT prove that the barium found in the collected samples came from planes in the sky. It could have come from anywhere.



KSLA News 12 had the sample tested at a lab. The results: A high level of barium, 6.8 parts per million, (ppm). That's more than three times the toxic level set by the Environmental Protection Agency, or EPA.
Armed with these lab results about the high levels of barium found in our sample, we decided to contact the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality. They told us that, 'yes,' these levels are very unusual. But at the same time they added the caveat that proving the source is a whole 'nother matter.

www.ksla.com...




[edit on 19-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 07:52 PM
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Taken from chemtrail FAQ's
When did all this start?

Reports of Chemtrails began slowly gaining momentum in 1999, and are increasing rapidly in 2000. There are reports and photographic evidence to suggest that some spraying was occuring as early as 1990.



Wrong, there are phots going back to the second world war of contrails. There is absolutely no difference between them then and between them now. The only change is the frequency which is due to the increase in air travel



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 07:55 PM
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I will say this. For the first time in my forty years, here in TN, we had chemtrail spraying all summer long. This was a first for me, I repeat. I have never seen anything like this ever before. Before researching this subject, I could tell you they caused high pressure...because that was what we had all summer...with the corresponding lack of rain. I started making time lapse videos of the chemtrail spray and what you can tell (very clearly) is that the strength of the winds corresponds to amount of spraying. I've noticed that if a line is sprayed above you the wind starts blowing almost immediately (even on a relatively windless day).



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 07:55 PM
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Taken from chemtrail FAQ's website

What evidence exists to support a Chemtrail operation?
No concrete proof exists...



Oh really? Wow, I never wouldve guessed that. This is coming from a pro chemtrail website. See you chemtrailers, no evidence



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by tnangela
 

That's your proof?

Somebody brings a jar full of water he says was collected in bowls lying on the ground from rain that fell after a 'chemtrail operation', and the water turns out to have rather a lot of barium in it?

What precautions were taken to ensure that the sample was not accidentally contaminated, not to mention deliberately doctored?

You'll have to do a good deal better than that, I'm afraid.

As for your economic justifications for the spraying, well: according to the International Grains Council, the total world cereal crop for 2007 will be a bumper 1.66 billion tonnes, the largest on record. This is 89m tonnes more than last year and was achieved despite the fact that drought in Australia caused the wheat crop there to fail for a second successive year.

So I would respectfully submit that your explanation for the supposed chemtrail operations is false.

As is well known, the very high price of grain today has two causes. One is greater wealth in the developing world, especially China and India, which is driving a substantial increase in meat consumption. As I'm sure you know, it takes several kilogrammes of grain to produce a kilo of meat. The other reason is the massive increase, especially in the United States, in the production and consumption of maize-derived ethanol as automotive fuel.

You'll find more information on rising food prices and their causes in the December 8 print edition of The Economist and on that magazine's web site.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Paul the seeker

So you're kinda not right here.

We deny ignorance don't we?

Anything is possible, well apparently not for you.


Are you calling me ignorant? If I am ignorant then so are you. Yes anything is possible, but when there is proper evidence to suggest that a topic is unplausible then it becomes, IMPOSSIBLE



Originally posted by Paul the seekerI will not give my breath for constant reacting on "meteorologically-experienced" debunkers comments.


Oh I see, because you deny ignorance right? Or is it that you just refuse to believe that I have valid points that discredit the chemtrail theory



Originally posted by Paul the seeker
You can do some research about the topic, accept that some ppl "maybe" know more than you, or simply refuse it.

I have nothing to proof for you.


Yes some people may know more than me, I dont doubt that. The majority of chemtrail believers, like that guy on your youtube link, base their arguments on what other people say, and photographs. So what you're saying is that chemtrails exist but there is no proof they exist, but still what we see coming from aeroplanes in the sky must be the government spraying harmful substances to poison/ mind control/ sterilise us, because that is more likely than hot exhaust from an aircraft entering a super cooled environment and condensing?




Look.
Let's keep it on the line ok?

What i wanted to point out is that this man has been INTO the thing HIMSELF. He has been given the oportunity to be "an evil man" as he says.
He was in an underground base, he has seen what kind of stuff the elite really possesses and what their philosophy and intention is.

So it's not just a theorizer alright?
And I'm not worshipping his opinion, but he confirms what i already know.

Chemtrails contain high values of Barium/Aluminium up to toxic levels.
It is very probable that they are the cause of Morgellons.
Chemtrails also contain micro bacteria.

You could go in direct contact with him if you really question what he tries to point out. I'm quite sure he'll get you the proof.

but that's really all i want to say about the questions if chemtrails exist or not, cause neither did i create this threa to argue about that nor do i want to argue that.

It's really the research every single one has to do themselves.

This thread is about discussing WHEN and WHERE you see Chemtrails popping up in your skies,
do not debate their existance here,
create a new thread for that or i will ask an admin to kill this one.


[edit on 20-12-2007 by Paul the seeker]

[edit on 20-12-2007 by Paul the seeker]

[edit on 20-12-2007 by Paul the seeker]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 08:22 AM
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Paul, the problem is that no one can post reports of chemtrails unless they know what chemtrails look like. And no-one as yet has come up with any means of identifying since all chemtrails apparently look like this:



Or this:



Or this:



All of which are normal aircraft contrails and cirrus clouds

How does one identify chemtrails from the ground?



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Essan
Paul, the problem is that no one can post reports of chemtrails unless they know what chemtrails look like. And no-one as yet has come up with any means of identifying since all chemtrails apparently look like this:



Or this:



Or this:



All of which are normal aircraft contrails and cirrus clouds

How does one identify chemtrails from the ground?


Chemtrails have their usual facials, such as seemingly staying and expanding.
I have seen trails that were very broad but disappeared after about 10-20 seconds, while others in the same sky would just stay like clouds and continue expanding slowly.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Paul the seeker

Chemtrails have their usual facials, such as seemingly staying and expanding.
I have seen trails that were very broad but disappeared after about 10-20 seconds, while others in the same sky would just stay like clouds and continue expanding slowly.


In other words that look exactly like the images I posted. Chemtrails are indistinguishable from normal contrails and cirrus clouds.

The only difference is that experienced observers see contrails and cirrus whilst those who believe all they read on the internet see chemtrails .....

Maybe before looking for chemtrails you should familiarise yourself with the behaviour of normal contrails? Which can last for hous ands spread out to cover the whole sky (a phenomena of them which has been studied since the early 1970s) and depending on atmospheric conditions can linger in places yet elsewhere in the sky none form at all (temp and humidity varies considerable over just a few thousand feet - and aircraft at 25,000 and 32,000 may appear the same height from the ground)

Good first port of call to find out more is this website:

contrailscience.com...



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Paul the seeker

Chemtrails have their usual facials, such as seemingly staying and expanding.
I have seen trails that were very broad but disappeared after about 10-20 seconds, while others in the same sky would just stay like clouds and continue expanding slowly.


Maybe before looking for chemtrails you should familiarise yourself with the behaviour of normal contrails? Which can last for hous ands spread out to cover the whole sky


Well how can you then determine what are chemtrails and what not, since you don't even believe into chemical altered trails?


I will say this. For the first time in my forty years, here in TN, we had chemtrail spraying all summer long. This was a first for me, I repeat. I have never seen anything like this ever before. Before researching this subject, I could tell you they caused high pressure...because that was what we had all summer...with the corresponding lack of rain. I started making time lapse videos of the chemtrail spray and what you can tell (very clearly) is that the strength of the winds corresponds to amount of spraying. I've noticed that if a line is sprayed above you the wind starts blowing almost immediately (even on a relatively windless day).


Thank you very much, interesting!


Oh really? Wow, I never wouldve guessed that. This is coming from a pro chemtrail website. See you chemtrailers, no evidence

Well looks like you just proved yourself to be a one-sided debunker who is not objective enough to be arguing with.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by Paul the seeker]



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Okay, now I get what this thread is for.


I saw a chemtrail yesterday. Over my house. It spread out very wide and stayed up for nine minutes before turning blue and vanishing. This morning my little brother got the measles.

Have fun denying ignorance.



[edit on 20-12-2007 by Astyanax]



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 12:25 AM
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wow thanks for that last post

now i can be wisked away back to my comfort zone

i know everything and knowing everything i understand that chemtrails are not a possible option (to be believed) , how? well that's easy...... because i haven't seen them, and since i haven't.............. they can't be an option in my mind, since they can't possibly exist
anyone who thinks they do are obviously wrong. it's so easy knowing for sure.

sarcasm

[edit on 21-12-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 01:49 AM
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Chemtrails may exist. But what people on the internet claim to be chemtrails are not chemtrails. Simple as that.



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by Paul the seeker
 




Chemtrails have their usual facials, such as seemingly staying and expanding.
I have seen trails that were very broad but disappeared after about 10-20 seconds, while others in the same sky would just stay like clouds and continue expanding slowly.




Uh, I live in Alaska where it is NEGATIVE 40 right now. In winter time when its super cold, the CONtrails stay in the air for super long times and slowly expand then eventually dissipate.

Your theory of what is a CHEMtrail vs what is a CONtrail is not factual.

The trails hanging around and expanding are not chemtrails.

I would think that people would see crop dusting or planes droping water to put out fires as the same thing as planes/jets droping chemtrails....

If you will look at crop dusters or planes who are droping water to put out fires....you will see that they look NOTHING like what everyone claims to be chemtrails caused by planes and military jets.

Why do you think crop dusters and planes have to fly sooooooo low? Think about it.



Id also suggest people read the link that Essan provided. It provides a lot of scientific facts on CONtrails. Good link!!


[edit on 21-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 02:20 AM
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Since I dont think many will visit Essan's link....


From the link Essan provided:



This is obviously not a contrail, it’s far too low and the trail is dropping too rapidly.

It’s a Boeing 747-100 “Supertanker”, modified by Evergreen Aviation, the only one of its kind. Specifically designed for fire fighting. That’s it dumping water.

Here’s a VIDEO of it in action, titled “B747 chemtrails”. It’s interesting reading the comments, as the first comment correctly identifies what it is, and then everyone else just ignores that and starts speculating.

Here’s another photo you see in “chemtrail” videos, with the implied suggestion that it’s some kind of evil spraying device:



Actually it IS a spraying device, but quite innocuous. It’s used by the air force to test icing of planes in flight. See:




At our base, what is above is seen here quite often....since our jets fly in NEGATIVE temperatures.



CONtrail identification chart:
asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...


Chemical Analysis of CONtrails (seriously, check this out - talks about barium and aluminum that some of you brought up):
contrailscience.com...


Persisting and Spreading Contrails:



Do contrails sometimes persist and spread out?

Yes, see the Encyclopædia Britannica article on vapour trails (contrails):


Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
vapour trail. (2007). In Encyclopædia Britannica.Retrieved May 4, 2007,from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: www.britannica.com...

Also see “A Field Guide to the Atmosphere“, by Schaefer and Day, 1981:

“Sometimes [contrails] are ephemeral and dissipate as quickly as they form; other times they persist and grow wide enough to cover a substantial portion of the sky with a sheet of cirrostratus“ (Page 137)

Are spreading contrails a relatively new thing?

No, it has been exactly the same for decades, the only change has been the size of jet engines (producing bigger contrails), engine efficiency (burning fuel more efficiently creates more water vapor) and the amount of air traffic (producing more contrails).

See, for example, all these articles on contrails. In particular the one titled “Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget“, from 1970:

The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
[….]

Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By midafternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.






I could copy and paste stuff all night...but I strongly suggest you check out the link Essan provided. You might learn something from professionals
I know I did!

CONTRAIL SCIENCE





[edit on 21-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 04:11 AM
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I requested the admins to close the thread.

Start a new thread if you want to discuss this further.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:15 AM
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Essan, why don't you start another topic somewhere else if you want to debate the

existence of chemtrails. This thread was started to report chemtrails. If you don't

agree with the author of this thread, get over it. By the way I saw about twenty chem-

trails through out the day yesterday while I was in the mountains of Southern California.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by greydawn
 


I already started a thread like that inviting chemtrail believers to answer some questions i posted.....I only got 2 replies from chemtrailers, so why dont you check out my thread

[edit on 23/12/2007 by OzWeatherman]



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