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Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

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posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
By the way, Lizard, just because something is of minority opinion does not make it wrong...


*sigh*

It only makes it wrong in the eyes of the majority....knowing that you can understand why the symbol was removed right?

To a Christian these symbols are evil...and would be very offensive if displayed near a celebration of Christ...period...

[edit on 12/19/2007 by kinglizard]




posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
By the way, Lizard, just because something is of minority opinion does not make it wrong...


There is a minority opinion that snorting coke is OK, and so is abducting small children. Not every minority opinion is wrong, by far. But I don't want crack pipes displayed nowhere near the Nativity scene.

It is a known fact that Koreans (in Korea) eat dogs. It is an acceptable practice there. When they immigrate here, and become a minority, the practice ceases, because the majority finds this practice unacceptable. What is your opinion on that? Same applies to Japanese men urinating in the streets in Japan (I've seen that myself) but aligning themsleves with the majority and stop doing that when they arrive in the US.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by CreeWolf
 


Believe me when I tell you, I am not envious of any war causing religion.. "Christians" don't have a clue as to what TRUE Christianity is.. You have fallen away centuries ago, just like God said you would...



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by gallopinghordes
I don't have an issue with the Wiccan symbol being placed there. Contrary to some opinions Wiccans donot worship Satan and are in fact a peaceful religion. What I do have an issue with is the vandalism that occured. Seems to me that we would all be better off if we practiced a little more acceptance of others differences and stopped expecting all to believe as we do.

Just my .02.


I know very little of Wiccans (except the kids back in High School who CLAIMED to be Wiccan, though I doubt they even knew what Wicca was... ) but I thought they where more along the lines of Nature worship? ..

Anyways, This is just a sad case of ignorance from someone who cannot bare to see another religious symbol without instant discomfort. Instead of ignoring it or studying it, the fool decided to destroy it, acting 100% opposite of his own faith.

I hope the city decides to leave everything as it is, and put a new wreath up. To get rid of ALL religious symbols is FAR WORSE then having them all destroyed.

How much spirituality, regardless of the source, can we have taken out of our lives?



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

How much spirituality, regardless of the source, can we have taken out of our lives?


Between warring religions telling everyone that "their way is the only way" and gross materialists saying "this is all there is," spirituality has went down the pooper.


[edit on 19-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Believe me when I tell you, I am not envious of any war causing religion..


Is war the product of the teachings of Jesus Christ or the failings and depravity of man?



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Believe me when I tell you, I am not envious of any war causing religion..


Is war the product of the teachings of Jesus Christ or the failings and depravity of man?




It's the depravity of Islamic and Christian religion which have gone wrong. It's really that simple. Look at the world you're currently living in,Lizard. You tell me.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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I promised myself I was out of this topic, but apparently I lied. I try to stay out of this kind of thing, because it comes up every year and brings me down. We do our own thing at home, with a tree & creche & yes, holly, wreaths & mistletoe. We view it as traditional decorating, and it's always been that way in any house I've lived in, and will continue as long as I have anything to say about it.

Dragging any type of symbolism into the public domain, especially government facilities, is always going to cause a problem. What's a symbol of peace, love, and reverence for one is possibly and frequently a symbol of something very different for another.

So I try to keep my head down and just do my own thing. Let the professional squabblers and offense takers ruin each other's days.

But here I am to pose a serious question for whomever would care to reply - What would Jesus think about a manger scene or any symbolistic representation of his birth (or a crucifix for that matter) being on display at a governmental building? And part 2- What would he think about a symbol of some other religion being on display in close proximity to the "Christmas" one?

Discuss among yourselves.

And Merry Christmas.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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First of all, if Jesus seen people revereing him on the cross or in a manger, he'd say it was idol worship. That's the first and foremost thing.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


That is the one thing that I can not understand when it comes to religious organizations is the many Christian denominations in our nation, they can never agree with each other only that they all call themselves Christians.

A nation built on the base that Religion should be practiced freely and without persecution still Is groups of religious extremist that will persecute anything that do not agree with their own interpretation of what Religious freedom is about.

Vandalizing that Wreath only proves one point, is still acts of persecution in our nation.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Vandalizing that Wreath only proves one point, is still acts of persecution in our nation.





Oh marg, if it were up to most Christians and Muslims, there would still be an inquisition. They'd burn people like me at the stake for being a "heretic."
I really believe that. They despise anything and anyone who aren't exactly like they are.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:20 AM
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This thread reminds me of another story though different it contains a few similarities.

groups.google.co.th...

The similarities are that people are seemingly making claims that a member of an opposing religion committed this crime, and that may be but proof has yet to appear making any claim pure speculation.

In the story above it seems that the claim of racism was being thrown about and later proven to be wrong yet never apologized for. I wonder how many if proven wrong in this thread will apologize for their claims and accusations.

I still think this might have been done for “excitement and controversy” by teens. It may even be possible that the person placing the wreath there committed the act for attention to a cause of being treated differently. If proven wrong I will be more than happy to say I’m sorry for my claims and admit I was wrong.

But laying claims and blaming another group will not help or resolve the conflict it will serve only to enhance it further. Besides this is an in animate object with no feelings and of relatively no point so long as you maintain your belief in your heart. This is a time of year we should all be happy to spend with our families and take a few moments to respect one another’s beliefs even if we disagree with them.

Anyway here is to you and yours have fun and enjoy every moment you have.

Raist



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Oh marg, if it were up to most Christians and Muslims, there would still be an inquisition.


This is pure libel. You want to denigrate Christianity on any occasion that presents itself.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
Dear KL, you wield fire and brimstone with much grace, but in my humble opinion this is a bit too much, with all due respect.


I not weilding fire and brimstone here. I realize some will see that comment as "too much" but I'll not apologize for it. Jesus didn't appologize for overturning the tables of the money changers and I wouldn't apologize for removing evil symbols from a display that celebrates Jesus Christ. I'm not saying I would harm the people that added the symbol but indeed I would remove it with no remorse or appology.

I have no problem if the symbol was a block away but if someone added it to a Nativity display it's gone, gone gone....



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


And with folks who have attitudes like yours, is it any wonder? I'm so tired of being treated like my religion is "less than" Christianity. I live in a small town in Tennessee, where everyone is Christian. There is one other Pagan here besides myself and my husband. Yet, we are afraid to tell anyone what our religion is, for fear of reprisals, which have been known to happen to anyone suspected of being a Pagan or a witch.
The law says I have equal rights to religious expression, but unfortunately in reality, this isn't so. I have known far too many Pagans who lost their children, were arrested and who were vandalized just because of their religion.
Buddha, did it ever occur to you that Pagans might be offended by seeing Nativity scenes all over the place, but no representation of Pagans?
It is so weird to me, the Christians took and used our symbols (Yule trees, pentacles, Winter Solstice became Christmas) and holy days, but they call them evil. Does that make any sense?



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by forestlady
And with folks who have attitudes like yours, is it any wonder?


My attitude is that I'm not against you practicing witchery. I repeated this a few times but somehow it doesn't sink.


I'm so tired of being treated like my religion is "less than" Christianity.


We all have our share of problems. Deal with yours and wear your pentacle with pride. And don't flame me just because you are made uncomfortable sometimes.


The law says I have equal rights to religious expression, but unfortunately in reality, this isn't so.


There is also sense and sensibility. Just like I wouldn't want to open a fast food stand, on public land, next to a mosque, to sell pork chops, even though there is nothing unconsitutional in that, and by the way, my pork chops are really yummy. Or: it's not unconsitutional to display posters of scantily clad women (not naked), but try to do it close to a school and hear what parents have to say about it. It's also perfectly legal to wear/display images of marijuana leaves but I dare you to do that at school.

Common sense, my friend, common sense.


I have known far too many Pagans who lost their children, were arrested and who were vandalized just because of their religion.


Frankly, you fully expect your consitutional and other legal rights to come to you automatically. I find this attitude infantile. Chrisitans were prosecuted like there was no tomorrow, burnt, fed to lions by Romans etc. They had a raw deal back then. Now, you consider it too much to take legal action protecting your rights. If this is the case, you don't deserve those.


Buddha, did it ever occur to you that Pagans might be offended by seeing Nativity scenes all over the place, but no representation of Pagans?


I feel like my words are falling on deaf ears. Represent all you want and hang the Yule at Wallmart, courthouse any anywhere you want, just don't interfere with the nice little Nativity display that we've come to appreciate, OK?



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
Frankly, you fully expect your consitutional and other legal rights to come to you automatically. I find this attitude infantile. Chrisitans were prosecuted like there was no tomorrow, burnt, fed to lions by Romans etc. They had a raw deal back then. Now, you consider it too much to take legal action protecting your rights. If this is the case, you don't deserve those.


Why should I have to fight for my legal rights to religious expression? It is guaranteed to me by our Constitution. And no, I don't consider it too much to take legal action, but again, why should I have to? Why should anyone in America be forced to turn to the courts for a right that is Constitutionally guaranteed????

Here's another point: Yes, Christians were persecuted - but only for about 300 years. Meanwhile, for the last 2,000 years Pagans have been hunted down, killed, humiliated and not allowed to practice their religion. Who do you think they burned during the 500 year long Inquisition? Along with Jews and other "heretics", were ALOT of Pagans. Christians think they're being persecuted these days because they can't stick a Nativity scene or cross wherever they want. Meanwhile, as a Pagan, I literally take my life in my own hands if anyone in my town were to know I am Pagan.
Persecution? Don't preach to me about how persecuted Christians are.
Ya know, I strongly believe in religlious tolerance, but wow, you're making it really hard.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Again the link on the story, this nativity was on city hall grounds not church or church grounds.

It seems that this is becoming tiresome and the original posted link information on the thread is been ignored purposely.

Is not about your nativity or your personal church of choice nativity is about public grounds and with permission by the very nice state government to bring the joy to everybody and for everybody to show their favorite religious and none religious display.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
Why should I have to fight for my legal rights to religious expression? It is guaranteed to me by our Constitution.


That's what I thought. You take a lot of stuff for granted. It is your duty as a citizen to see that the Consitution is followed. Unless it is in your actions, it's still just a piece of paper. It's not some kind of magik scroll, Forest Lady. It's a document you take with you to court or street protest.


And no, I don't consider it too much to take legal action, but again, why should I have to?


Because, like, you value your paganism ways?? You expect to not lift a finger and have everything your way? Sheesh.


Here's another point: Yes, Christians were persecuted - but only for about 300 years.


Oh, thank you for making light of this. How many pagans were fed to lions in the States this year, pray tell?


Meanwhile, as a Pagan, I literally take my life in my own hands if anyone in my town were to know I am Pagan.


It comes with the territory. If you don't have the guts to handle issues of your religion even in a fairly open country like the US, you are not enough of a believer.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Again the link on the story, this nativity was on city hall grounds not church or church grounds.


If you cared to actually read my mosque example, I specifically said "on public land". Please re-read and get back to me.



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