Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

Originally posted by masqua
But the facts remain that it was a Wiccan symbol in the same vicinity as a Christian symbol... the nativity scene.

Where is the Buddhist angle in the topic of this thread? I don't see it.

People ara talking about equlity ans sanctity of all religions. As such, Wicca is not an exclusive rite. What goes for Wicca, whould go for Hindu. And you still havent' answered my question regadring the latter.

reply to post by buddhasystem


And the link on the story of the thread tells that everybody was invited religious and none religious including the Hindu to display their holiday best.

The Wiccan wreath was put up after the mayor and City Council president erected a nativity display. Hoping to avoid the constitutional issue of separation of church and state, they invited non-Christians to put up their displays too.

So your topic subject deviation the Hindu is unnecessary.





[edit on 18-12-2007 by marg6043]

Hi forrestlady, dont have a lot of time to read thru this thread, just wanted to support your main idea and offer my simple thoughts.

Let the religious people do what ever with the court houses.

Merry safe and happy winter celebrations to you my friend.

Light a candle for me, I could use all the love and light you can send...xo

As a member, you can always start a thread about Hindu temples and Buddhist symbols juxtaposed against those which are Christian.

I'm much more interested in the close relationship between the pentangle in both Christian and Wiccan symbolism. They are the same, imo. Just as I would place a five pointed star atop my Christmas tree, I see in the Wiccan symbol a relationship to 'man'.

The difference, today, is one of nuance... one is a star which indicates the heavens and the belief in God while the other indicates earth and man.

That they are not allowed to be in proximity of each other seems to be intolerant. I don't believe one religion needs to be exclusive of others. I would prefer the belief in Divinity to be inclusive.

I haven't read through this entire thread, but here is my take on this.

Every year someone complains about the display of a nativity scene or the fact that the US government "hints" it may be pro-Christian. Its simple really.

>>>>>>Envy

The truth is that the winter solstice has been celebrated for many centuries before Christianity.

The Dec 25 Christmas celebrations were superimposed onto the solstice date in order to suppress the previous in much the same manner that Christian churches were built on sacred pagan sites.

Just another example of why there should be a kinship between Christians and pagans, rather than exclusion.

Originally posted by masqua
As a member, you can always start a thread about Hindu temples and Buddhist symbols juxtaposed against those which are Christian.

Thank you, masqua, but I already know that. I have no interest in such thread. The Hindu swastika example I've given is an analogy. Analogy, you know? Our legal and moral principles are not and should not be on a per-case basis. What goes for a Yula wreath goes for the swastika. And you continue to avoid a straight answer to my question. Why?

I'm much more interested in the close relationship between the pentangle in both Christian and Wiccan symbolism. They are the same, imo.

Any arguments to support that??

Just as I would place a five pointed star atop my Christmas tree, I see in the Wiccan symbol a relationship to 'man'.

Sorry but I don't see any logic in that statement. What does a relationship to 'man' have to do with a relationship to a Christmas tree and Nutcracker figurines?



Pentacle can mean many things, such as explained in this link:
members.shaw.ca...

but none of them, none at all, are Christian.

Morever, we find that

www.religioustolerance.org...

This symbol apparently originated as the symbol of a Goddess who was worshiped over an area which extends from present-day England to Egypt and beyond. Her name was Kore

Well, the Chrisitan God told us that "thou shalt not have any gods before me". How clear is that?

The difference, today, is one of nuance...

Read the above. Or read the Bible, for God's sake. God is very much against idolatry, and displaying the symbol of pagan goddess Kore is just such idolatry.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Read the above. Or read the Bible, for God's sake. God is very much against idolatry, and displaying the symbol of pagan goddess Kore is just such idolatry.

And that quote ladies and gens shows the agenda been pushed here.

Religious intolerance and disregard of what the article is about.

Again from the article.

The Wiccan wreath was put up after the mayor and City Council president erected a nativity display. Hoping to avoid the constitutional issue of separation of church and state, they invited non-Christians to put up their displays too.

What part of the article is still unclear to you even with the littler preaching there you still have not leg to stand on, the issue is clear.

Originally posted by marg6043
What part of the article is still unclear to you even with the littler preaching there you still have not leg to stand on, the issue is clear.

Dear Marg, my legs are just fine, thank you, and so is my logic. The article is plain and clear. And I don't preach anything here. I'm just trying to imagine what devout Christians would feel if they see all manner of idolatry paraphernalia next to likeness of Lady Theotokos and Baby Jesus.

At least you had the gut to say that it's OK to put swastikas right next to a Hannukah display. I disagree with that, but I rexpect your opinion.

-Rant on-

Every year I grow ever wearier of this Christmas, winter holiday, blah, blah, blah stuff.

Fact of the matter is that (insert your holiday name here) as originally celebrated by those who were first doing the celebrating, has been hobbled and now lies helpless on the ground being trampled by the filthy feet of greed.

This time of year even many of those who call themselves Christian but show no signs of being such care nothing about what the holiday is about but care more for the paid day off and the gifts they are about to receive. The truth is you can call yourself whatever you wish but you may not be that at all.

I am beginning to wish they would end the official celebration of the holiday take away everyone’s paid day off and make everyone happy once again. I see people complaining because it’s called this break or this holiday but even if they do not believe in the higher power it is meant to be a celebration of, yet they are more than happy to get gifts and a paid day off. Many are so unfocused with the whole idea of the holiday they fail to see things in it that have nothing to do with the higher power being celebrated to begin with. To make things even more clear I feel the same about Easter or spring holiday as some would have it as it is becoming much the same way.

-Rant off-

Now as for the topic the conspiracy side of me feels more inclined to believe it was done by some teens or preteens looking to stir up controversy. Much the same way many do when they feel a need to attack the headstones of those who have passed many times over a hundred years ago. Another thing I find so amazing is that for a place where so many have a conspiracy type of mind is that few to none think there might be one here. After all time has proven that some fake or endure their own attack to attract media attention thus bringing power to their idea and conveying it to others on this now self initiated pain they feel.

Of course this is just my opinion feel free to complain about another’s religion as you see fit. But then again it will not change the situation at this point nor will it be likely to do so in the future.

Raist


[edit on 12/19/07 by Raist]

KingLizard and Buddha: The pentacle represents nothing Satanic. Those who use the pentacle know this. If you and many other Christians see it as Satanic, it is only through your own ignorance. Because you are wrong, doesnt mean you have the right to denigrate another religion or not allow them to express their meaning of the holidays.

This is the kind of thing that Pagans face all the time. We are constantly trying to educate the public as to what we really believe, but for some reason many Christians and others refuse to be educated and cling to their erroneous beliefs about what Paganism is. How is it that you think you know more about Paganism than Pagans? Do you realize how arrogant that sounds to others?

Originally posted by marg6043
Forestlady and QueenAnnie you are the best, and yes been a pagan is beautiful.

I respect both of you for your ideas and well thought post and threads.

Thanks Marg. I also have always respected your opinions. You're one of the folks who make ATS a good experience!

Originally posted by mattifikation
I don't think they should have to take the nativity scene down. The local government there obviously went out of their way to make sure they weren't endorsing any specific religion, as the Constitution demands. It's not their fault some jackweed ruined part of the display.

Honestly, how much would it cost to just re-hang the wreath? If the perpetrator needs a ladder to take it back down again, it's only a matter of time before he's caught in the act and faces vandalism charges.

I don't see a conspiracy here. I just see how some poorly raised biggot decided to ruin things for somebody else, just out of spite and intolerance.

Thank you for your post, Mattification. You make good sense to me. I, too, would hate to see the Nativity scene taken down. Christians shouldn't have to have their symbol taken down just because of a vandal. The Pagan priestess who put up the wreath will be putting up another one I'm told. For me, respecting other religions is part of my religion. Pagans believe in respecting ALL life forms and beings.

Masqua and Queen Annie, thank you so much for your well-informed posts. Great job of Denying Ignorance!

Originally posted by forestlady
KingLizard and Buddha: The pentacle represents nothing Satanic.

Did I use the word "satan" in my posts??

Because you are wrong, doesnt mean you have the right to denigrate another religion or not allow them to express their meaning of the holidays.

"Because you are wrong" is a beautiful way to start a sentence and it sure is loaded with objectivity and logic. Sheesh.

Now, nobody said that Wiccans can't express "their meaning" of the holidays. Just do it with some respect to others, for gossake already.

How is it that you think you know more about Paganism than Pagans? Do you realize how arrogant that sounds to others?

Oh man. This thread is NOT about one's expertise in Paganism or using magik, in case you haven't noticed. It's about not placing things unrelated to the Nativity next to a religious Christian display. If you want to go dance in the woods, all covered in pentacles, I find it facscinating and may want to join you one day to learn more about paganism. This is not what this thread is about, though.

Originally posted by forestlady
KingLizard and Buddha: The pentacle represents nothing Satanic. Those who use the pentacle know this. If you and many other Christians see it as Satanic, it is only through your own ignorance.

That's your opinion...the minority opinion. I understand that YOU don't see it as evil....we get that.

I and most modern people (the majority) see it as a symbol of evil. I have no problem if you view me and the rest of the majority as ignorant. I know what serves God and what serves the evil one.

If the pentacle or pentagram was displayed in a nativity scene I would probably do more than hide it behind a bush. If it was displayed a block away I would leave it be, God gave his creation the ability to choose their own path even if it lead them to a horrifying end.

Originally posted by CreeWolf
Would there be any complaints if Christians mounted crosses everywhere on Ramadan? The fact of the matter is that this time of year is Christmas, not "Every non-Christian Religion Display Their Religious Wares Day". Get over it. America is primarily Christian. This isn't Saudi Arabia.

Finally, a voice of reason. Thank you Cree.

There is nothing "eeeevil" about the pentacle or the pentagram. Any assertion that there is is nothing more than propaganda by belief systems which feel threatened by anything that is different. By the way, Lizard, just because something is of minority opinion does not make it wrong...

[edit on 19-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by kinglizard
If the pentacle or pentagram was displayed in a nativity scene I would probably do more than hide it behind a bush. If it was displayed a block away I would leave it be, God gave his creation the ability to choose their own path even if it lead them to a horrifying end.

Dear KL, you wield fire and brimstone with much grace, but in my humble opinion this is a bit too much, with all due respect.

It's amazing to me that Islam and Christianity,two peas in a freaking pod, are praised while they cause wars and continue to destroy the earth. Yet, belief systems which view humanity as the holy breaths of God they are are frowned upon./ It's really amazing to me.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by masqua
As a member, you can always start a thread about Hindu temples and Buddhist symbols juxtaposed against those which are Christian.

I'm much more interested in the close relationship between the pentangle in both Christian and Wiccan symbolism. They are the same, imo. Just as I would place a five pointed star atop my Christmas tree, I see in the Wiccan symbol a relationship to 'man'.

That's because Roman Catholicism took the Pagan symbolism prevalent in the day and era, as well as the myths and the holidays of the barbarian pagans, and added it into their Christianity, so that the Christianization of the Roman provinces of say.. Gaul and .. Germania .. and Britain, and Iberia went extra smooth.

This is why theres bunny rabbits and eggs symbolism on Easter.

This is why theres christmas trees on christmas, and this is why its december 25/26th, because of the closeness to the original winter solstice pagan celebration around the same time and also because the tree thing pre-dates Christmas. The Pagan Germanic peoples would use a Tree and put gifts under it for friends and family as part of a game or tradition for that holiday.

[edit on 12/19/2007 by runetang]