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Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

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posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by coven
uhm you realize thats a PENTAGRAM... NOT A PENTACLE...


Most Christians believe witchcraft to be of Satan. I used the pentagram as an example but to me the two are the same.



Originally posted by coven
jeez... there are some SERIOUSLY UNCHRISTIAN Christians on this board...


How am I being unchristian?


Originally posted by coven
even worse... ones a moderator.


So I can't have a belief system or an opinion? Maybe you would like it if the only people allowed to post were people that agree with YOU.


Originally posted by coven
ATS just lost a LOT of respect from me.


I post for myself not ATS. ATS is a place where all people can share their opinions...maybe you didn't know that...

If you lost all respect for me I'm sorry to hear that.


Originally posted by coven
hope I don't get banned or warned for Calling the Lizard out...


Nobody gets banned for posting within the guidelines while expressing their opinions. Are you happy or sad about that?




posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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Ahem.

This:



Is the same as this:



About as much as this:



Is the same as this:



I assume you're aware of how very, very little the inverted satanic cross has to do with the upright Christian cross.

I respectfully suggest that perhaps you should take some time to learn the differences between any religious symbols you wish to discuss.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by mattifikation]

Edit: Trying to get the images to display in the thread instead of having links to them. Only half working. Not understanding why. Giving up.

You'll just have to click the links.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by mattifikation]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by buddhasystemTo too many people, the pentacle is a representation of satanic ritual. Like it or not, many Christians will find this offensive at the Nativity scene. Why not just exercise some common sense and not go overboard with all this suffocating PC'ishness?


So, what you're saying is that the majority needs to subdue the minority by stifling expression through symbols because we must fight political correctness.


Please don't put words in my mouth. It's almost entertaining, really, that people get wound up in a microsecond and fail to see simple logic when it comes to the PC issues. I never said we must stifle expression or "subdue" anybody. You invented this. What a shame. If I want (as I guess, many Christians do) to see a Nativity scene arranged in a traditional way, like you see in an illustrated Bible, without what some are bounf to perceive as an intruding and foreign symbol, let's please grant them this wish and move the wreath to a different place. Like I said, it would be tragic if buddhist swasticas were hung over the Hannukah candles. Would you agree with that?


Of course it has nothing to do with religious suppression, does it?


Correct. Of course it doesn't.


You do know that the pentagram is all over the American flag, the Russian flag, the Chinese flag ad infinitum...


It's also in the Chrysler logo. So what. Sheesh it will soon be impossible to call Christmas a Christmas (like two years ago, when they decided to rename it "holidays").



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by kinglizard
 


So you think my line of thinking is something I should change? Now the Vandalized Yule Wreath (no satanic inverted pentagram) was in the City hall grounds, that was not a church or place of worshiping christianity grounds so I see not problem with putting another sign of a religious symbol next to the one already there when both are to show the meaning of the holidays be the Christian Christmas or the yule celebration.

So When saying that it should not be anything else next to the nativity display in the city hall it sounds like religious intolerance to me.

You are welcome to correct me if I am wrong in your eyes.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by kinglizard
 


You just opened my eyes, this is the first time I see a link between witches and pagans, so pagan people are witches and practice witchcraft?



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
So When saying that it should not be anything else next to the nativity display in the city hall it sounds like religious intolerance to me.


Let's imagine I'm a Hinduist and being in a festive mood, want to decorate the City hall. Marg, what is in your opinion the minimum distance that should be allowed between the Hindu swasticas that I would like to hang in the City Hall, and the Hannukah display there? Like this one:




posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
I assume you're aware of how very, very little the inverted satanic cross has to do with the upright Christian cross.

I respectfully suggest that perhaps you should take some time to learn the differences between any religious symbols you wish to discuss.


The inverted cross (Cross of St. Peter) represents humility to Christians because St Peter didn't believe he was worthy of being executed on the same cross as Jesus.


Though I'm sure some would see an inverted cross as something different. For this reason I wouldn't support it's display in or around a nativity scene.

As I said before, modern Christians see the pentagram and pentacle as symbols of the devil.

I'm not asking you to agree if that's what you're thinking...

[edit on 12/18/2007 by kinglizard]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


It only shows that in America a nation that protects religious believes be Christian or else still suffers from intolerance and ignorance.

That all.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
To too many people, the pentacle is a representation of satanic ritual. Like it or not, many Christians will find this offensive at the Nativity scene. Why not just exercise some common sense and not go overboard with all this suffocating PC'ishness?


To which I said;


So, what you're saying is that the majority needs to subdue the minority by stifling expression through symbols because we must fight political correctness.


Which sounds exactly right,according to your own words. And yet, you accuse me of putting words in your mouth. That a little disingenious, imo.


Please don't put words in my mouth.




I'm asking you one simple question... how do you see the Star of Bethlehem represented?

BB code fix



[edit on 18/12/07 by masqua]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by buddhasystem
To too many people, the pentacle is a representation of satanic ritual. Like it or not, many Christians will find this offensive at the Nativity scene. Why not just exercise some common sense and not go overboard with all this suffocating PC'ishness?


To which I said;


So, what you're saying is that the majority needs to subdue the minority by stifling expression through symbols because we must fight political correctness.


Which sounds exactly right, according to your own words.


No it doesn't! Amazing. I only said find a different place for the other symbols. PLease comment on my swastica example as well.


I'm asking you one simple question... how do you see the Star of Bethlehem represented?


Like planet Venus. A bright star. Check it out.

Seriously, star of Bethlehem has nothing to do with Yula. Just ask the Pagans



[edit on 18-12-2007 by buddhasystem]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:04 PM
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No... it has to do with Christmas, which is why I can't figure out what the beef is here. The wreath wasn't even a part of the nativity scene.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
No... it has to do with Christmas, which is why I can't figure out what the beef is here. The wreath wasn't even a part of the nativity scene.


Ok, let me ask you again. I am a Hinduist and want to hang a festive Hindu Swastika in my City Hall right next to the Hannukah display. It's not even a part of the Hannukah, you know:



Will you find that acceptable?



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:16 PM
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What's a wiccan wreath doing there anyways.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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You're deviating from the topic of this thread.

please lets not bring other faiths into this discussion because this thread is about a wreath with a pentacle in it which was removed from a city square.

Not a swastika, not a pentagram, not pork bellies.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Again we are in a nation that protects the freedom of religion so the answer to your question is yes.

But let me ask you, do you think that the religious intolerants that plague our nation will like that? no they will turn it into a political issue.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by kinglizard
 


What you see it as, and what it is, are two entirely different things. I see the crucifix as a disturbing sculpture of somebody's death, but we all know that's not what it is, so I don't freak out when I see one.

The inverted cross was originally intended to depict humility, but that's clearly not its connotation anymore. You won't find them in Christian bookstores, for example.

I don't understand why anyone would think the Christians have the right to put their nativity up by the City Hall, but nobody else has the same right. It's not fair to anyone else.

On the subject of fairness, the City invited people to put their decorations up. Somebody did exactly that, with permission, and another person took it down without permission and vandalized it....

You condone this?! Sorry, but this is NOT an anarchy that we are living in!



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
You're deviating from the topic of this thread.


Am I? People are talking about all things interfath here, and drawing analogy between one religion versus the other, just like in other forms of analysis, is the most useful tool.

With all due respect, you are reacting this way because your broken logic short-circuits at this juncture. If it didn't, you would plainly say that it's ok to hang a Hindu symbol there. But you are afraid.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:24 PM
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But the facts remain that it was a Wiccan symbol in the same vicinity as a Christian symbol... the nativity scene.

Where is the Buddhist angle in the topic of this thread? I don't see it.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Again we are in a nation that protects the freedom of religion so the answer to your question is yes.


Thank you for an honest and coherent answer.


But let me ask you, do you think that the religious intolerants that plague our nation will like that? no they will turn it into a political issue.


Unfortunately. But this is the reality that won't change any time soon depsite all the feel-good intentions. And seriously, when I was in a Buddhist temple, I hardly thought it appropriate to install a Nativity scene outside of the temple, on public land around Xmas time.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


No, his job is to keep the thread from straying into a sub thread as is happening lately around this forum.

Now the same way that some issues turn into political issue others like the Yule wreath and the nativity is turn into a hate issue by the religious intolerants in this nation.

But when the same people feels that somebody is stepping in their toes they claim that their religious freedom is under attack.

Its kind like a double edge sword that works for any side of the issue.



[edit on 18-12-2007 by marg6043]




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