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Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

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posted on Mar, 15 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
So, Buddha, if there was a mass celebration of the Winter Solstice, I assume you wouldn't be "offended" then, eh? I mean, I am a Christians, just not a Christian fascist.


You're missing the point, it is simply in bad taste to try to dilute or muddy the waters of one Religious holiday with the symbols of another.

It goes even deeper then that though,, one look at Forrestladys posts around Dec and you'll see she has brought this crap up so much and argued it so many of the same old insults to Christianity as the Big Bad Evil of all Evils or that it was the Christians that stole the pagan wreath AGAIN! Now I hear the War is between Islam and Christianity When it is between Iraq and America,, hell what am I saying I should know better I'm a 6 year veteran, America isn't at war, Soldiers are, Americans are at the mall.

Another thing I think is getting a little out of hand is all this crap about hate speech being a hate crime. You want freedom of speech then hate speech shouldn't be a crime. It can be stupid and intolerant of another for ignorant reasons but we would be muddying up the waters again with an already bastardized constitution.

I am so tired of seeing the word Christian this or that EVEN when the thread purports to be in favor of Christianity, it turns out was a Joke and just another excuse to bash Christians. Some of these people have a little more going on then merely being upset someone knocked a wreath off a display. When this same thread creator says she got offended seeing the baby Jesus in a nativity scene with words to the effect a ray of sun was as if nauseating a Vampire.

Again I notice she asks about whether they should be on Government Property but you’ll notice she has no problem with it being on said Property as Long as theirs can be too. That has never been good enough however; it has to always be at the same time the nativity is up during Christmas. Then she said, if Christians didn't let them do it, the ACLU should sue the Government so that none could be their using separation of church and state.

Apparently Laws are only to be observed when it suits them. I never had a thing against Atheist, pagans or Wicca till I started getting accused of Child abuse for reading the Bible to my kids. I get sick of hearing how we "shove our religion down everyones throats" I never shoved JACK down anyones throat and believe me,, they would know the difference if I did.

Then I started seeing that a lot and realized this is getting nuts. Who is putting this garbage in people’s heads? The I see websites everywhere with Atheists saying "I think it should be ethical to kill "some" who have “certain" beliefs - Sam Harris"

When the largest group of Atheists got deleted from Myspace.com, it never occurred to them that the reason they got kicked deleted and not let back on, was the topics of discussion 24/7 was HOW DUMB, EVIL, DOGMATIC, Christians are and naturally they got the blame for the whole mess too. If you want Christians to observe the laws when you give that erroneous separation of Church and state, then I would expect others respect the law also and the law says Christmas is a Christian holiday and it is to be RESPECTED. That means if you want your pagan holiday the week before or week after,, then have at it. Hell would even concede giving them our date and we take another, as long it settles the bullcrap.

We won't be trying to pollute the meaning or traditions symbols etc by mixing ours in with any other.

It's not our style anyway.

- Con




posted on Mar, 15 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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Hi everybody!

What an interesting topic. It seems to me that there is an underlying thought here that somehow this Wiccan wreath was violating the nativity by sitting next to it. This subtle suggestion isn't only by the Christians, but by others here, who seem to think that it's because it was next to the Nativity that it got vandalized. I remembered reading about the history of Christmas awhile ago so I looked it up on line. The following link might shed some light onto the idea that Christmas is a "Christian holliday" as I've seen some of you claim. it's an interesting read.

www.holidays.net...



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by enchantress62
Hi everybody!

What an interesting topic. It seems to me that there is an underlying thought here that somehow this Wiccan wreath was violating the nativity by sitting next to it. This subtle suggestion isn't only by the Christians, but by others here, who seem to think that it's because it was next to the Nativity that it got vandalized. I remembered reading about the history of Christmas awhile ago so I looked it up on line. The following link might shed some light onto the idea that Christmas is a "Christian holliday" as I've seen some of you claim. it's an interesting read.

www.holidays.net...



Thank so much, this isn't the first time I have been in this type of debate however and with all due respect to you and how something originated.

Yes that IS an interesting read having just got back from it. Not near as bad as I thought it was going to be.

It is to steal a phrase of Evolutionists,, how it has evolved into what it is.

Another words,, that was then

THIS is now.


HRES 847 EH


H. Res. 847

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,


December 11, 2007.

Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;

Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its Judeo-Christian roots;

Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;

Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and

Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;

(2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;

(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;

(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.

Attest:

Clerk.
www.govtrack.us...




Warm Regards

- Con








[edit on 16-3-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology

Originally posted by enchantress62

It is to steal a phrase of Evolutionists,, how it has evolved into what it is.

Another words,, that was then

THIS is now.


Ah! But that's not how it is now! Sorry con, you can spin it any way you want, but the facts are what they are. The US government can sign anything they want saying, "The Christians want this holiday, they are the majority, so therefore they get what they want" till hell freezes over and it doesn't change the fact that December 25 is not Jesus's birthday, and the rituals of Christmas are still based on Pagan traditions! And, if we are going to talk about Modern day Christmas, well just look around you, it's been reduced to nothing more then a big shopping spree!

Shouldn't Christmas of all times be a time of peace and acceptance? If Christians are practicing what they preach and truely believe that they are celebrating the birth of Christ, shouldn't that be the time of year to embrace others in the spirit of the holiday? Jesus was a man of peace, he taught, "love thy neighbor" not, "love thy neighbor while you defile his controbution to the celebration!"



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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www.religioustolerance.org...

The actual birthday of Jesus was forgotten by the early Christian movement. in those days, various groups celebrated his birth on JAN-6, APR-21 and MAY-1. By the 4th century, the church selected the approximate time of the winter solstice as the date to recognize Jesus' birth. They picked up this date from Pagan sources. As luck would have it, the autumn equinox might have been a more accurate choice.

*********
www.didyouknow.cd...

In ancient pagan times, the last day of winter in the Northern Hemisphere was celebrated as the night that the Great Mother Goddess gives birth to the baby Sun God. It is also called Yule, the day a huge log is added to a bonfire, around which everyone would dance and sing to awaken the sun from its long winter sleep.

In Roman times, it became the celebrations honouring Saturnus (the harvest god) and Mithras (the ancient god of light), a form of sun worship that had come to Rome from Syria a century before with the cult of Sol Invictus. It announced that winter is not forever, that life continues, and an invitation to stay in good spirit.

The first day of winter in the Northern Hemisphere occurs between the 20th and 22 December. The Roman celebrated Saturnalia between 17 and 24 December.

The early Christians
To avoid persecution during the Roman pagan festival, early Christians decked their homes with Saturnalia holly. As Christian numbers increased and their customs prevailed, the celebrations took on a Christian observance. But the early church actually did not celebrate the birth of Christ in December until Telesphorus, who was the second Bishop of Rome from 125 to 136AD, declared that Church services should be held during this time to celebrate "The Nativity of our Lord and Saviour." However, since no-one was quite sure in which month Christ was born, Nativity was often held in September, which was during the Jewish Feast of Trumpets (modern-day Rosh Hashanah). In fact, for more than 300 years, people observed the birth of Jesus on various dates.

******
If you Google "Pagan Origins of Christmas" you will get lots of pages about the Pagan origins of Christmas. If you read the pro-Christian sites of course, it usually doesn't say this, but if you go to a neutral site, like the two above, you'll learn about Christmas/Yule/Solstice having Pagan origins.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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I think the point here is that Wiccan's, Athiest's, Buddists, etc... have just as much right to celebrate Christmas as do Christians, and our contributions to the celebration should be just as honored. I don't see anyone telling Christians that they have to stop celebrating the season just because they stole the Pagan traditions! It doesn't matter who vandalized the Wreath, the message was loud and clear! "Witches are still outcasts in the community." That's a sad state of affairs cause we're pretty cool ppl to know! lmao



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