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Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

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posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


That's just a little bit insulting and I don't appreciate your little comment at all. Matter of fact you sir/madam owe me an apology. I don't now nor have I ever forced my beliefs on anyone and I certainly don't intend to start now. May I suggest you re-read ForestLady's posts; Wiccans as I understand it do indeed believe in a higher power. My interpetation of higher power would indeed equate to God or Goddes which ever one is prefered.




posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by gallopinghordes
reply to post by buddhasystem
 


That's just a little bit insulting and I don't appreciate your little comment at all. Matter of fact you sir/madam owe me an apology.


I hope you will accept my apology which is hereby humbly offered to you.

I just really want to get to the core of your logic about relation of God and five elements. I don't think there is a good match.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by gallopinghordes
reply to post by buddhasystem
 


That's just a little bit insulting and I don't appreciate your little comment at all. Matter of fact you sir/madam owe me an apology. I don't now nor have I ever forced my beliefs on anyone and I certainly don't intend to start now. May I suggest you re-read ForestLady's posts; Wiccans as I understand it do indeed believe in a higher power. My interpetation of higher power would indeed equate to God or Goddes which ever one is prefered.


I completely agree...
A display of ignorance at its finest eh' GH??


as I stated earlier I do believe in a "God"... for a lack of a better word.... in this post..

post by Creedo
 


I KNOW who my God is...



[edit on 19-12-2007 by Creedo]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Creedo
A display of ignorance at its finest eh' GH??


It's pretty fantastic. I am trying to defend the right of Wiccans
to interpert the Universe any way they want it, and I am labeled "ignorant"? I am trying to defend the right of Christians to display Nativity the way it was done traditionally in this country, and I am called "arrogant"? Jesus H. Christ! Some tolerance and intelligence here.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by gallopinghordes
 


Interesting you bring that issue, symbolism plays a very important role in humanity through the ages.

But what is going on in American right now and with the holidays/winter solstice and Christmas is nothing more than religious intolerance and lack of understanding due to ignorance.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Creedo
 


Thank you; I admit that particular post royally annoyed me. I believe that all things were created by a higher power and it really matters not to me what that Higher Power is called. Calling another's spirtuality in question because you don't agree with their path is ignorance at it's worst.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


I accept your apology and appreciate it very much.

I believe that all things were created by a Higher Power what you call that Higher Power is YOUR choice. The creation of this world by evolution or in seven days is and was a miracle. Just to clarify I believe in evolution but for this world to be created and able to support life is a miracle. I hope I've explained my views.

oops I mean 6 days cause on the 7th he rested.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by gallopinghordes]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 06:32 PM
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Here's a text from en.wikipedia.org...:


Wiccans hold a wide range of occasions with religious significance. Each full moon, and in some cases a new moon, is marked with a ritual called an Esbat. Wiccans also follow the Wheel of the Year and celebrate its eight festivals known as Sabbats. Four of these, the cross-quarter days, are greater festivals, coinciding with old Celtic fire festivals. These are Samhain, Beltane or May Eve, Imbolc, and Lammas or Lughnasadh. The four lesser festivals are the Summer and Winter Solstices, and the Spring and Autumn Equinoxes, which are referred to by some groups as Litha, Yule, Ostara and Mabon, respectively.


Now, it turns out the Yule is a minor festival. Less important than the major ones. Question is, why the wiccans who participated in this discussion spent so much energy insisting that it is during Christmas that they must hang the pentacle at the City Hall -- at a time of a minor festival? And they didn't put any of the pagan symbols in the City Hall during the major, greater pagan festivals? Does anyone else find this specious?




[edit on 19-12-2007 by buddhasystem]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by coven
holding the earth so sacred, as it is the SOURCE of life (visually... FOOD, procreation)


I'll skip the procreation bit in order to avoid the risk of a racy joke (by the way we just had a baby), but as to the source of food -- I've seen whole comunities who live on sea products. Should they then neglect the worship of the earth in favor of worshipping water as the main source of food? For urban dwellers, the food comes from a refrigerator. What to do?



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
Here's a text from en.wikipedia.org...:


Wiccans hold a wide range of occasions with religious significance. Each full moon, and in some cases a new moon, is marked with a ritual called an Esbat. Wiccans also follow the Wheel of the Year and celebrate its eight festivals known as Sabbats. Four of these, the cross-quarter days, are greater festivals, coinciding with old Celtic fire festivals. These are Samhain, Beltane or May Eve, Imbolc, and Lammas or Lughnasadh. The four lesser festivals are the Summer and Winter Solstices, and the Spring and Autumn Equinoxes, which are referred to by some groups as Litha, Yule, Ostara and Mabon, respectively.


Now, it turns out the Yule is a minor festival. Less important than the major ones. Question is, why the wiccans who participated in this discussion spent so much energy insisting that it is during Christmas that they must hang the pentacle at the City Hall -- at a time of a minor festival? And they didn't put any of the pagan symbols in the City Hall during the major, greater pagan festivals? Does anyone else find this specious?
[edit on 19-12-2007 by buddhasystem]


It doesn't matter if it is a lesser Sabbat, it is still a holy day for us. Now, I've responded to you enough and wasted enough time answering your obtuse nonsense. I will be ignoring you from now on in this thread.
Paganism is not on trial here, nor is any other religion.
I request that others please ignore this troll, so that we can continue a grownup discussion about the OP.
Thank you.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by ka0s69
And btw just because its a 5 pointed star doesnt mean its a pentagram. The pentagram associated with witchcraft is with the point at the bottom.


Uh, no,sir.
What you are talking about is an INVERTED pentagram.You are talking about a Satanic pentagram

[edit on 19-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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Well, there can only be one logical answer. If the Christians don't want their nativity scene being displayed next to a pagan wreath, they're going to have to move their nativity display to someplace else.

After all, THEY are the ones who don't want the symbols next to each other, and the PAGAN religion was celebrating their holiday in December before the Christians were.

It's the only logical solution that satisfies everyone's problems. :-)



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
It doesn't matter if it is a lesser Sabbat, it is still a holy day for us.


That's a feeble attempt to deflect the question. You don't care to prepare requisite decorations for major , greater Sabbats to place at the City Hall. This shows that you might not be caring for substance at all. Christmas, on the other hand, presents a precious opportunity to scandalize the Christian population and get press. Your protestations about the alleged prosecution of pagans such as supposed prohibition of display of pagan symbols
seem to be of questionable sincerety in light of that.


I will be ignoring you from now on in this thread.


Thank you! Thank you! It'll make my sejour on this forum a little more pleasurable.


[edit on 19-12-2007 by buddhasystem]



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by mattifikation
 


Hmmm, Matt., hadn't thought about that. Good point!

I am encouraged by the number of people on this thread who believe in interfaith sharing and respecting each other's religion.

If one religion's symbols are desecrated, it desecrates all spiritual paths, IMHO.
If we are going to truly honor the Divine, we need to honor all spiritual paths to the Divine.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 09:51 PM
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They weren't invited by city hall to place decorations for any other holidays, nor were any other religions.

All people were invited to place decorations for whichever holiday they celebrate this time of year.

They put something up that they were ASKED to put up. If somebody else doesn't want their decoration near it, that's their freaking problem, and they should adjust their OWN decorations accordingly.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
They weren't invited by city hall to place decorations for any other holidays, nor were any other religions.


Well, no, because I doubt that the city officials are well versed in the calendar of the rites of witchery. They won't be able to tell a minor Sabbat from the major one. So, the onus of arranging a display of pagan faith during the major Sabbats was clearly on the local pagans. And they didn't care enough.


If somebody else doesn't want their decoration near it, that's their freaking problem, and they should adjust their OWN decorations accordingly.


I understand. I know it's a crude analogy, but please bear with me: if the previous patron of a public bathroom doesn't care to clean after themselves, and I want to go, this is my problem, right? I need to adjust my OWN posture accordingly.

If the pagans in that town bothered to post whatever witchery symbols they chose on a major Sabbat, in the city hall, my opinion would have been different.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:32 PM
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It's not a crude analogy, it's a bad one. There's a big difference between celebrating a holiday and sitting in somebody else's poop. It's a sanitary issue.

But I'll humor it anyways. Yes, if the guy ahead of you makes a mess and doesn't clean up, you have two choices: Deal with it, or go potty somewhere else.

That's just the way it is.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:45 PM
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You knnow, it's amazing to me that people are actually trying to justify the vandalizing of a religious image. I certainnly wouldn't try to condone or justify the desecration of an image of Christ. As a matter of fact, it would piss me off, just like this does.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
It's not a crude analogy, it's a bad one. There's a big difference between celebrating a holiday and sitting in somebody else's poop. It's a sanitary issue.

But I'll humor it anyways. Yes, if the guy ahead of you makes a mess and doesn't clean up, you have two choices: Deal with it, or go potty somewhere else.


Being a resourceful guy, I would also consider the third choice of ripping off the toilet seat and tossing it out of the window, behind the bush.

Please note that I am not, emphatically, advocating displacing other faiths' symbols, in any way. I am very much against the desecration of Yula.



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:53 PM
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That just leads me to wonder if you have anger management problems.

Remember your "third option" gets you arrested for vandalism if you're caught. There's a reason for that. Society doesn't condone the destruction of other people's stuff; it tolerates it significantly less than paganism, even.



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