It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are Noah and Gilgamesh the same person and the same story?

page: 1
1

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 11:59 PM
link   
From what I understand the Epic of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah. From what I understand a even older version of the flood story even predates the story of Gilgamesh.

Is the story of Noahs Ark as stated in the bible, for a lack of better term "plagiarism"?

Or are Gilgamesh and Noah the same person?

Has anyone heard of the story that recently has been revealed about the story of the flood that predates the Epic of Gilgamesh?

[edit on 17-12-2007 by LDragonFire]




posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 02:39 AM
link   
As Noah didn't kick any ass, I think the Hebrew version of the deluge was extrapolated (poorly) from the older Sumerian one.

Technically this would make Gilgamesh Noah, but the story is so badly transposed onto Hebrew lore that there is no similarity of character.

Gilgamesh was an egotistical king with a fondness for other men's wives, Noah was a drunken craftsman.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:06 AM
link   
There are similarities, they both escaped the flood with there family's on a boat, with lots of animals.

Still it seems another case where the stories of the bible are taken from older stories.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:17 AM
link   
No, Gilgamesh was not Noah - for starters he never escaped from any flood


In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Gil searches for Utnapishtim - and it's he who is the equivalent to Noah, having escaped the flood after being forewarned by God.

It was common for one Mesopotamian story to include aspects of other stories, and in the Epic of Gilgamesh, the account of Utnapishtim's escape from the flood is very similar to the earlier story of Atrahasis - which is usually regarded as the earliest (though not necessarily original) account of the Mesopotamian Flood Myth.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:50 AM
link   
They're not and yet they are the same person....

I'll explain:

We all have long lost memories and stories that were passed down to explain the "flood" we all just put a different story/face to the tale. When the Ice from the Ice Age melted it covered a lot of land that was dry due to the massive amounts of ice. There are cities and artifacts that are found periodically that prove this point because they're under 20 feet of water now. Florida's coastline was much bigger then so the people moved closer to the water for food and in turn were devastated when the waters returned.

Basically people are remembering stories that were shared/passed down for about 9000 years.. This whole thing can be proven by studying different cultures because we all have stories about a great flood and one man who survived it. The Noah's Ark thing is just a repeat from an older legend, the same goes for Jesus himself.. He was simply a different spin on an old Solar Deity. The parallels are more than convincing....

There is a Native American story about a man and woman who lived in a ball of hardened tree resin and ended up on the top of a mountain after the flood.. He was also instructed by the creator to do this... Not to mention the Sumerian tale, the Babylonian tale, Christians, ect ect ect....



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 02:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Or are Gilgamesh and Noah the same person?


Generally speaking, I think so. All our 'myths' are certainly derived from one single very ancient root, IMO. Over the centuries, filtered and flavored through various cultures and times.


Has anyone heard of the story that recently has been revealed about the story of the flood that predates the Epic of Gilgamesh?


No! Tell me more, please!!



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 07:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by LDragonFire

Has anyone heard of the story that recently has been revealed about the story of the flood that predates the Epic of Gilgamesh?

[edit on 17-12-2007 by LDragonFire]



Are you referring to the legend of Noela?


(Scroll down to the Chaldean Flood Legend)
Chaldean Flood Legend

"His name was Noa, and he dwelt in Syria with his three sons Sem, Japet, Chem, and their wives Tidea, Pandora, Noela, and Noegla."

"The god ordered him (Noa) to write a history and bury it in Sippara."


What was really buried at Sippara?
Sippara



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 10:14 PM
link   
Yes, the Noah story was taken from the older story in Gilgamesh.

However, I do not recall if Gilgamesh was the guy who builds the boat and saves the day or if he just was looking for the guy who DID do it, I forget how it goes.

But yes, its the same story. That area ... the Middle East, its ancient stories which pre-date all Abrahamic Religions can be found in sources that pre-date those religions. This is the perfect example.

But thats not to say it was plaigarized or taken from, more like it was passed down from century to century until you came to the ancient Jewish period, where they placed the story in their Holy Book. Likewise, you'll find it in the Quran of Islam.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 03:46 AM
link   
The Torah claims its authorship to be God, himself.

Imagine this: The flood occured, noah and his family survived, Time passed. As the world began to be repopulated the story of Noah shifted and changed. By the time Summaria was thriving, the story was a cultural staple in various forms.

Time passed. Many generations passed before the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt.

So now here's Israel at Mt. Sinai where the Torah is being presented to Moses by God, himself. God's proclomation is basically: "this is the truth of the Earth, what has been and what will be - I'm entrusting it to Israel."

So, was God just "borrowing" from the epic of Gilgamesh or was he simply setting the record straight?

If you believe in God then the pre-existance of the Epic of Gilgamesh to the Torah is inconsequential.

You can believe that the Torah is a fabrication written by men and borrowing from stories that were already ancient. Or you can believe the Torah's claims, which are backed up by the proof of prophecy fulfillment throughout the entire pageant of human history.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 05:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by runetang
Yes, the Noah story was taken from the older story in Gilgamesh.

However, I do not recall if Gilgamesh was the guy who builds the boat and saves the day or if he just was looking for the guy who DID do it, I forget how it goes.


As I've already pointed out
The 'Noah' figure in the Epic of Gilgamesh is called Utnapishtim.

Gilgamesh is a completely different character and does not encounter any flood.

The earlier versions of the flood story found in the Epic of Gilgamesh is the Story of Atrahasis - again, already referenced above.

There may well have been earlier versions of which we have no record. It seems to have been a popular tale and no surprise it was adopted by the Hebrews whilst they lived in Babylon and incorporated into their creation myth. Notably, the collator of Genesis was unsure which of 2 differing versions of the tale was 'true' so included conflicting elements form both.



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 08:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by shaell
The Torah claims its authorship to be God, himself.


I've never heard that. I heard Moses was given the 10 Commandments but not the entire Torah. Ive heard its the literal word of God but not that it was written by him. Likewise, the Bible and Quran are claimed to also be the literal word of God.

I know that all three were written by numerous men throughout numerous eras of humanity. Besides, if God wrote it, it would be better.



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 02:22 AM
link   
From what I have read about it Gilgamesh was searching for the secret of imortality. Somehow he learns of an old man who lives at the top of a mountain. Gilgamesh climbs said mountain and meets old guy. The old man tells him he saved all the animals from a great flood and to thank him they gave him imortality. Thats about all the detail I remember it has been a long time since I read up about the sumarians but Im pretty sure thats BASICLY how the story went.



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 04:58 AM
link   
The Epic of Gilgamesh and related Sumerian flood accounts predate the Torah. This is fact.

The Torah was written by God. This is the Torah's claim. (see references below)
If this claim is true, then the fact that Utnapishtim predates Noah is irrelivant. God's account is no doubt more accurate than a handed down men's tale of the event.

To settle the issue one must settle the issue of the Torah's legitamacy, and that's a whole other topic.

Just to clarify the Torah's claimed authorship:

Exodus 25:21...[God to Moses]..."put in the ark the Testimony, which I will give you"...

Exodus 31:18..."he [God] gave him [Moses] the two tablets of the testimony, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God"...

Exodus 32:15,16..."they were inscribed on front and back. The tablets were the work of God; the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets"...

Take note of this one:
Exodus 32:32...[Moses to God]..."Please forgive their sin, but if not then blot me out of the book you have written"...

Exodus 34:1...[God to Moses]..."Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets which you broke"...

The Torah claims to be a supernatural text straight from the mouth of the creator that addresses every conceivable philishophical and metaphysical issue man has ever faced.

Regardless of what one believes, it can't be denied that the implications of this claim have profoundly affected human culture since it was made; and that, IMHO, is powerful enough stuff to at least take a discerning and serious gander at.



[edit on 12/21/07 by shaell]

[edit on 12/21/07 by shaell]

[edit on 12/21/07 by shaell]



new topics




 
1

log in

join