You just stated safety precautions and natural circulation.

I said it was in my opinion, which is far from professional when it comes to submarines. I'm not going to try and lie about pretending to know everything about submarines.

The Hydrogen Peroxide carried on Sub's is for the torpedo's right?

The reason I believe the U212 is better is because it is more innovative than nuclear submarines. Nuclear subs are an old idea made new every decade.

The German engineers who created the U212 designed her so that she would never have enough H20 onboard needed to cause an explosion or fire due to the Hydrogen fuel cells.

The whole vessel is also made out of A-magnetic material.
(Correct me if there are other submarines that are made out of 100% of a-magnetic material please because ignorance is the worst).

I guess this would also force them to rely heavily on laser gyro's for navigation, nice. Never thought of that.

So to answer your question my friend. I did think it through and I see more potential for Hydrogen, since we have really just started to try and develop it for commercial use also.

The U212 broke the trend in the submarine world and that's why it stands out in my eyes. Like the first jet fighters in world war 2 flying past the amazed Allied airmen...strangely enough German engineering at work again...it's scary what these people are capable of.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by RWM88]

Originally posted by RWM88
...
The German engineers who created the U212 designed her so that she would never have enough H20 onboard needed to cause an explosion or fire due to the Hydrogen fuel cells.
...

That was not really a design consideration. The amount of H2 on board is limited by the use of metal hydride tanks which are very safe but also weigh a lot for relatively little H2 content.

Actually the H2 storage on the U212A and U214 is very safe; the tanks are outside of the hull and are considerably stronger than the actual boat cell. That means a force large enough to lead to a tank breach would likely be catastrophic for the hull in any case.

Lastly, even in the case of a tank breach, the H2 will be vented into the water where it is almost completely harmless. Of course the few pipes leading into the boat are at a risk of breach with catastrophic consequences, but that danger is common in all submarines regardless of propulsion method and fuel.

EDIT: Maybe you referred to what was said in your video that only a small amount of H2 is within the boat a t all times. In that case my point is moot of course.

---

Now Orangetom, as our "on-site" expert on submarines, could you shed a light on how much or wether at all the actual dimensions of a submarine contributes to its "detectability"?

[edit on 23/11/2009 by Lonestar24]

Thanks for the informative description of the fuel cells

Thanks, any corrective and additional info is greatly welcomed.

You said the subs have an inertia navigation systems, any info on that?
I do understand inertia, it is just the actual system that interests me or means of calculation of positions via inertia.

I thought that sub's mainly used DR/GCS calculations in conjunction with 3D sonar and charted depths in conjunction with charts of the ocean floor for position fixing whilst submerged?

Thanks for your time.

I'd have to say nuclear power is the best bet. The U-212 looks like it would be great for littoral combat situations, but to come up against a say, seawolf I'd say the seawolf would win. Nuclear power may be an old technology, but it is in no way outdated. But my vote goes to the Seawolf. Probably the Jimmy Carter.

Nuclear reactors are being updated in designs as we speak. Todays modern reactors are a far cry from the firs generation units.. The big change has been in natural circulation types...though some other changes have taken place as well. This work continues.
Most of todays reactors are based on some 20/25 year core life before refueling is considered.
There are designs being worked on to give 50 year core lifespans.

Submarine navigation methods are somewhat confidential as to specifics. What I have told you is just common sense. I have seen the IMU units on several types of boats. Some large and some small...only about 2x2x2 feet in dimensions. Some of the older units were quite large.
Some of them work in methods which would be to some peoples ..magic if you knew how the olde ones operated.

Basically they are three axis gyros and accelerometers along a x,y, and z axis...three dimensions. They are also very expensive units.
Most commercial airlines do not use them except on the larger aircraft running trans oceanic routes. Most use some kind of radio navigation combined with gps systems.

The Navy used to have dedicated satellites..Nav Sat by which to get a fix. This system was in service long before public GPS became common. This system is probably still in service but with significant updates.

Thanks,
Orangetom

As someone has said before, the best submarine in the world is the sub that has a crew that takes its training and drills seriously. Time in port should be spent at the ship's trainers on base. All the newest technologies in the world didn't mean a thing if the crew wasn't always combat ready. Having floating decks, and a rubber lined hull was only so effective when the cook wasn't banging pots and pans around in the galley.

The ESGN has a beryllium ball suspended magentically and spinning at mega RPM. Each unit costs hundreds of thousands. I know once or twice a ship's ESGN died. But that's one of the reasons why there were two of them. Didn't reflect well on the nav techs though when expensive and fairly reliable equipment goes OOC.

Originally posted by Schaden


The ESGN has a beryllium ball suspended magentically and spinning at mega RPM. Each unit costs hundreds of thousands. I know once or twice a ship's ESGN died. But that's one of the reasons why there were two of them. Didn't reflect well on the nav techs though when expensive and fairly reliable equipment goes OOC.

Schaden,
I was not going to say anything about this in specifics as I did not know what the confidential nature of it was..hence assumed it was so.

I saw one of these in an olde 16 tube boomer in the nav room. There were two of the olde ones hanging off the centerline painted white ..and then there was this odd ball gray box hanging off the ceiling as well.
I knew they were all inertial type systems but when someone explained to me the basics of how it worked suspended in a magnetic field.......Wow!!! I was blown away. It must have been invented by the kind of radical goofball who came up with that Rubicks Cube which drove so many people nuts years ago. You know..the extreme geek type!!

It seems that later versions of these got smaller and more compact over the years. Those were big gyros in the olde boomers.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

One of the best submarine excersices iwe heard about is when the US where in Swedish waters to test new sonar equipment.

A Swedish navi officer witnesing the excersice on the US ship pointet on the map when the training started and said: "The Gotland is there -> *Pont*"


Several days later, several areas of the sea searched, the US stil had not found the sub, only to be baffled that it had been in the actual point where the swedish officer had pointer, and the US thought he ment "general area", had a good laugh after that.