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Best Submarines?

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posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 11:01 AM
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This post is purely to satisfy my interest in this field of naval warfare. I have always wondered what the general consensus is over what Navy has the best and most technologically advanced submarines’. Is HMS Astute up there with the Virginia class and so forth? How do the Russians faire in this field? Just a few questions I would love you guys to answer for me.

Appreciate it,
Thirst




posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 06:40 PM
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Very little is lnown about Russia's modern subs, but the Virginia Class sub should be one of the top three attack subs, out now.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 08:05 PM
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I can't speak on behalf of the russians, however I would say with some confidence that as far as nuke boats go... it's a close tie between the virginia and astute with the edge going to the astute class.

EDIT: my reasoning being the astute's smaller size and ability to operate closer to land with greater effectivness.

No doubt this is a result of the requirement that the subs will be patrolling the relatively shallow north sea.

The virginia does have a better strike package (vertical launch and twice the tomahawk missile capacity), however this is of no benefit in a sub-sub engagement so I do not consider it a factor.



[edit on 17-12-2007 by Lucretius]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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I thought the astute was larger than the virginia class? They only have 1 of them in service anyway i do believe.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by LwSiX]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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More coming online soon though, well being built; out of interest how many are in the Virginia class?



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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I think it's safe to say that we know so little about the capabilities of both the Virginia, Astute and even the Akula II class that we will never truly know which is the best.

The only way we would ever know for sure, is if they were ever in combat, and I highly doubt that will ever happen.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Thirst
More coming online soon though, well being built; out of interest how many are in the Virginia class?


Looks like there could be up to 4 Virginia Class boats operational at the moment.



Block I
USS Virginia (SSN-774), commissioned and in service
USS Texas (SSN-775), commissioned and in service
USS Hawaii (SSN-776), commissioned and in service
North Carolina (SSN-777), named December 11, 2000; scheduled delivery in 2007[1]; this is the last ship of the First Block or "Flight".

Block II
New Hampshire (SSN-778) has been ordered for delivery in 2008[1]
New Mexico (SSN-779) has been ordered for delivery in 2011
California (SSN-780) was ordered in 2005 and is expected to be delivered in April, 2011
SSN-781 was ordered in 2006 and is expected to be delivered in 2013
SSN-782 was ordered in 2006 and is expected to be delivered in 2013[2]
SSN-783 is expected to be ordered in 2008; this is the last ship of the Second Block or "Flight".

Block III
SSN-784 through approximately SSN-791 are planned to make up the Third Block or "Flight" and should begin construction in 2009.


source



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 05:49 AM
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hmm, the best submarines, this is a tricky one....

Some of the modern US nuclear sub's have Norwegian build propellers, and roumered that only way to spot one is to listen for the silence that follows the sub.

But Diesel/Electric sub's are stil considdered the most silent once.

like the Swedish Gotland class, it's said that US navy had 3 week's to find the sub in a excercise, and they were even given an aproximate position to find the sub....to no vail...

so my personal ranking is about following:
1.: Gotland (sweden)
2.: Foxtrot (russian)
3.: Seawolf / Virginia (US modular designed uboat)
4.: Ula (Norway) -> no.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Phoebus]

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Phoebus]



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 02:05 PM
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From Phoebus,


Some of the modern US nuclear sub's have Norwegian build propellers, and roumered that only way to spot one is to listen for the silence that follows the sub.

But Diesel/Electric sub's are stil considdered the most silent once.



YOu folks need to think this through carefully..very carefully. Let me help here.


www.bose.com...


Think about this awhile...a long while.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:33 AM
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I would vote for the Swedish Gotland-class. It's new, very new. Almost 2-3 years old I believe.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:13 PM
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But how can that be when the Gotland-class can only stay submerged for 2 weeks whereas nuclear submarines such as Astute could stay underwater for months at a time. Also I know they will not enter service until 2009 but surly the Astute will be more advanced than their Swedish counterparts.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:02 PM
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Head on head comparisons of SSK's and SSN's don't really make much sense.

It's really an apples or oranges comparison: they are different vessels, suited for different missions.

So here's my take:

Best SSN: Virginia or Astute

Best SSK: U212/214 or Swedish Gotland class.

Best SSGN: the new modified Ohio SSGN strike subs. With room for 154 Tomahawks and a SEAL team, in one of the quietest nuclear boat classes ever deployed, nothing really comes close as a strike boat. The Oscar is better armed as a battlegroup killer, but for power projection the modified Ohios are hard to beat.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Phoebus
hmm, the best submarines, this is a tricky one....

Some of the modern US nuclear sub's have Norwegian build propellers, and roumered that only way to spot one is to listen for the silence that follows the sub.

But Diesel/Electric sub's are stil considdered the most silent once.

like the Swedish Gotland class, it's said that US navy had 3 week's to find the sub in a excercise, and they were even given an aproximate position to find the sub....to no vail...

so my personal ranking is about following:
1.: Gotland (sweden)
2.: Foxtrot (russian)
3.: Seawolf / Virginia (US modular designed uboat)
4.: Ula (Norway) -> no.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Phoebus]

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Phoebus]


Norvegian propeller? Where do you get your stuff from? Give me a source for that.
A Foxtrot class on second place?? Stop smoking dude, the first Foxtrot was laid down in 1957 and commissioned in 1958! That is the most stupid statement i have seen on this forum.
And can u pls tell me why you rate the Ula clss higher than the 212/214?
and another thing. You dont compare a diesel submarine with a nuclear, they arent comparable at all.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:00 AM
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reply to post by Phoebus
 


Isn't that Norweigian Sub supposed to be like the most stealthy of any submarine, and the the have a co-ed crew? [saw it on Modern Warfare]



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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The best sub is the boat that completes its mission, for a littoral exercise an old soviet diesel could be the right tool, for being able to reach a deep thermocline a titanium hulled soviet boat is admirable in its crush rating, the soviet boomer was an engineering achievement, its actually two subs, and in WW2 the japs had subs that launched aircraft, the germans had early fuel cell technology but currently I would say the edge goes to whoever has the better ears and the smartest torps.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by sir_stinky_pinky
reply to post by Phoebus
 


Isn't that Norweigian Sub supposed to be like the most stealthy of any submarine, and the the have a co-ed crew? [saw it on Modern Warfare]


Well, it is a quiet sub, yes. From Vikipedia: The Ula class submarines are among the most silent and manoeuverable submarines in the world. This, in combination with the relatively small size, makes them difficult to detect from surface vessels and ideal for operations in coastal areas. During the annual NATO Joint Winter exercise in 2004, the HNoMS Utvær had to be disqualified from the exercise because it kept the entire landing operation at bay."
But not more quiet than many other "new" diesel-subs. When running on batteries it is impossible to compare a diesel sub against a nuclear boat when it comes to noise. A nuclear boat always have pumps and generators making "noise", but then again, they have the speed, and endurance a diesel sub dont have. New technology (Air independent propulsion) has given several diesel sub-classes possibility to run for weeks underwater without running noisy diesels, but they can never have the same speed as nuclear subs, and would for example not be a good choise for engaging a carrier-group doing 30kts. Only choise for a diesel sub in such a senario would be to sit around in a strait or similar and wait for the group to pass by.
For the same reason you would not use a diesel sub to engage nuclear subs either. (unless you have to).
Diesel subs are very good in coastal waters, or patrolling areas of high value. Can also be very good for landing special forces etc.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by xmotex
The Oscar is better armed as a battlegroup killer, but for power projection the modified Ohios are hard to beat.


The USN has ordered the Harpoon Block III, besides its many improvements it is VLS capable. Look for the SSGN to be configured to carry and fire this class (from inside online naval sources), this does not mean it will normally deploy in this configuration but it will be able to if need be and a mix load out is also possible. Given the smaller size of the Harpoons we are looking at an even larger lead-out (than Tomahawk) for a single SSGN (maximum). Anyway, there are also the recoverable underwater and aerial attack unmanned vehicles being developed for SSGN carriage. The VLS Block III will also likely be fitted on all current VLS capable USN SSN's since the older Harpoons that were used in this role were retired.

Just a small note, I'm not really arguing with your point just adding some information on the topic.



posted on Feb, 5 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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Cool bit of information, thanks.

Yeah the addition of the VLS Harpoon will give the Ohios a much bigger bite in the anti-shipping role.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 01:04 AM
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the best submarine of the world : Soviet/Russian Project 210 Losharik




The official name for this submarine type is "project 210". It is powered by an atomic reactor and due to unique spherical construction elements used is believed to be able to operate at depth of 6000 m. Those elements are hidden inside conventional submarine hull (perhaps for better hydrodynamics and lower noise frame). Founded in 1988 it became operational only in August 2003 due to financial problems that Russian military expirienced in 1990s. Losharik is designated for research, rescue and special military operations.
en.wikipedia.org...



It reportedly can dive to a depth of over 6,000 meters, and is said to be the most silent and hard-to-detect submarine in the Russian Navy. The new submarine is designed for special operations, scientific research and can also rescue crews of other submarines at great depths
www.globalsecurity.org...




It is a top-secret project and few details are available about its characteristics apart from the fact that it can sail at a depth of over 6,000 metres and is the most silent and hard-to-detect submarine in the Russian Navy.

"At certain speeds the submarine becomes practically invisible to enemy sonars and can carry out missions in any part of the world ocean," the paper said.

The new submarine is designed for "special operations" and can also rescue crews of other submarines at great depths.
nuclearno.com...


this submarine is practically invincible , and is supposed to be under command of special units of the military ,
most reports are silent on weaponization of sub , but certain reports state that it carries weapons

if weaponized , just 4 or 5 such subs can destroy most of the american submarines at will

the sub is practically near invincible and West has no such counterparts



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 02:14 AM
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Losharik is designated for research, rescue and special military operations!
Besides, it has been under construction since 1988. What on earth makes you think this is the best submarine out there? It is a relative small submarine, diesel and nuclear, which again makes makes not much space for weapons. The fact that it can dive to 6000 meters (stated) does not make it the best submarine. who are you going to chase down there? And with what. try to open one of your torp-tubes at that depht!
"said to be the most silence and hard to detect submarine in the russian Navy" They say that about every sub they launch, the sub isnt operative for years, so there is no way to say. This is a special purpose submarine, not one to choose in a military operation against other submarines/surface wessels. It could of course be good to land special forces, tap undersea cables or as a rescue sub etc but would pick an Akula every day if i was suposed to engage someone. They have yet to proove that this diesel/nuclear power plant is in any way practice in use and effective.



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