Originally posted by ngchunter
I demand a retraction of your accusation. I wrote this argument myself. If I sound like others who have ripped this theory apart it's because we're all speaking the same truth on why your theory fails. I did not educate myself on the sun from "discovery universe specials" I did it by reading these neat things called books. I wrote my counter argument and backed it up with real time space weather data, I did not plagerize anyone else.
My apologies, I'll be more respectful. but the argument is the same and is based on the same false model of simple electrostatics, I'm afraid the text books won't help you either unless they are well versed in plasma physics.
As for your real time data, the solar wind is not uniform, the wind is slower along the equatorial plane and highly variable and the probes are incapable of detecting the slow drift electrons.
This from a person who didn't even bother to notice that their own sources said the phenomenon either stopped short of the sun or was caused by the sun itself. Meanwhile you can't even show me a significant amount of electrons reaching the sun at all times and powering it, yet that is your assumption.
No. no, that was to show that not everything is moving away with the solar wind as you stated. however enormous blobs of plasma have been observed falling back in to sun.
www.spaceweather.com...
Translation: I can't prove my theory at all so let me try to poke holes in yours.
I don't have to poke holes in the standard theory they already know they there.
Once again this was to prove electrons do flow into the sun, the mechanisms for these particles is from scattering of the strahl, and from the unfortunately named bowshock off planetary magnetospheres and possible the heliosphere those are the proposed mechanisms. And suggest closed circuits inline with the theory.
This however is not the electrons inferred to power the sun, but it is the ambient slow drift electrons within the immense volume of the heliosphere, the model to look at is the plasma glow discharge model.
Juergens wrote: "Transmission lines carrying high-voltage direct current - electric trolley wires, for example - discharge almost continuously to the surrounding air. In the case of a positive (anode) wire electrons ever present in the Earth's atmosphere drift toward the wire, attracted by its positive charge. As they penetrate the increasingly intense electric field close to the wire, the electrons gain energy from the field and are accelerated to energies great enough to initiate electron avalanches as they collide with and ionize air molecules. The avalanching electrons, in turn, intensify the ionization immediately surrounding the wire. Positive ions, formed in the process, drift away from the wire in the electric field. In this way, a more or less steady discharge is maintained, although there is no tangible object other than the surrounding air that can be considered a cathode....."
The 'negative glow' region can be seen to have a strong electric field. People objected to Juergens'' model because we don''t find relativistic electrons, accelerated by a strong radial field in interplanetary space, rushing toward the Sun. But plasma phenomena in a glow discharge are complex, so appeals to simplistic models based on electrostatics are irrelevant. Instead, I propose that Juergens' model be modified and that interplanetary space is the extensive 'positive column' region of a glow discharge. Cobine writes, "The positive column is a region of almost equal concentrations of positive ions and electrons and is characterized by a very low voltage gradient." This model, with planets orbiting within the anode discharge of a star, is of extreme importance when considering life on other planets.
The most important feature of the positive column region of a glow discharge is that the plasma is quasi-neutral. That is, sampling will reveal equal numbers of positive ions and electrons. And that is what we find in the solar 'wind.' It merely forms the conducting plasma medium between the cathode region at the heliospheric boundary and the anode region near the Sun. So looking for excess relativistic electrons rushing toward the Sun is no more sensible than looking at a current-carrying wire and asking where are all the excess electrons rushing from one end of the wire to the other.
Hence the problem of detecting diffuse slow drift electrons, I know you are going to say that is convenient, and yes this part of the electric model is the most speculative. But all observations of the sun tend to support it and some very old predictions confirmed. On one hand we have a model that works with observation and as far as I know only one loose thread, on the other hand is a model that is littered with problems and ad hoc assumptions that cannot explain the fundamentals such as solar wind and coronal heating.
As Juergens argued, within our solar system the Sun bears all of the hallmarks of a small spherical anode in a galactic discharge. The planets occupy a vast region within the heliosphere, known in gas discharge theory as the positive column, which has a weak electric field centered on the Sun. Unlike the thin neon tube, the Sun occupies a vast sphere more than 16 billion miles across, so the positive column disappears and the current is carried throughout that volume by a low density of ionization. It requires only that the Sun’s electric field has sufficient strength to cause a drift of electrons toward the Sun, superimposed on their random thermal motion. In other words, it is immeasurably small. Notice that the net charge density in the positive column is zero. In other words, there are an equal number of negative and positive charges in interplanetary space. That is what spacecraft have generally found.
Great, so the electrons that make it out of the strahl and into the halo become less and less dense as radius to the sun decreases. By the time you're looking at the core you're seeing electrons that come nearly entirely from the sun. If there's one thing this study proves it's that nothing from outside could be electrically powering the sun. Your own source disproved your theory.
I don't see how it disproves the theory, what it shows is a continuous flow of current. And that electrons do flow into the sun and fits perfectly within the theory and inline with the plasma glow discharge model, in fact it's the only theory that satisfies the mystery of the solar wind and coronal heating.
It's perfectly logical sense and instantly solves both the solar wind acceleration and coronal heating.
Think of it this way, if the sun is internally powered the heat should be greatest at the core and radiate away, except what we find is the complete inverse with the heat being the most intense at the corona and cooler at the surface, a host of assumptions have attempted to explain this.
Instantly solved if the sun is a positive anode being fed by externally.
So I concede that the source has not been verified and I was mistaken to infer that the backstreaming electrons from my first link where the power source.
But it is possible under the glow discharge model and within the realms of conventional physics. Kristian Birkelands terella experiments scream loudly in support of the theory as do the observations of recent and the confirmed flux ropes carrying current to the Earth.
If you go back a couple of pages you'll see this argument covered. You'll also see that even the mainstream are beginning to question and include more electrical terms in their conclusions.
Here's one that considers Hannes Alfvens unipolar-inductor model or "electric star".
www.mssl.ucl.ac.uk...
