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Economy Sinking Government Knows & Giving Bad Info

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posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


You are quite funny I have to admit but PJ has hit it right on the head and he is not even close to the only one in this position. Businesses fail all the time yes I know this my first 2 failed before I created a successful one doesnt change the fact that the economy is in the crapper and the government is lying about it. The only thing going for us right now that is keeping people confident about the economy is the fake employment numbers that are published. You wanna hear the sad part is by the time it becomes so clear that even you have to admit we are in trouble the big boys will have taken there money and when its time for the small man to pull out there will be no money to take and they will get left in the dust just like 1929. By the way there is a big underlying problem that does include people not saving like they should and buying things that they shouldnt I will agree with you there and that is something that does need to change thats why im for consumption taxes and getting rid of our income tax. But things you do need to survive health insurance, car insurance, food, gas, automobiles is going up like mad and wages arent keeping up with it. I pay over 1k a month for health insurance alone. Anyone making minimum wages would never be able to afford that and most cant that is why we have so many people uninsured. You just keep sipping on the Kool Aid and thinking that this nation is fair to the majority out there and unfair to the rich. Having cable is a luxury yes but you know what so is being in the top 3% and sometimes you have to give back because being up there isnt all about hard work its alot of luck too...there are alot of people who work hard but cant get there because they dont get that lucky break.




posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


More rambling with no evidence. You are very amusing.

I thought you were going to conclude that we were headed toward a depression when it came out that holiday sales were down? It's just to bad holiday sales were up. I guess you will now have to change tactics and tell me they MUST all be on credit cards that people won't pay off, so the sky is still falling.

The difference between you and I is that I know that recessions come and go as part of the economy, and we are long overdo. I make decisions based on the evidence and data presented. You buy into the media hype that it's all over, a great depression is coming, the sky is falling, etc.

You can whine and tell us the government numbers are faked all day, yet you have yet to show and proof. You have also failed to show how in the world you can figure out the economy is tanking without any sort of data. How is it that you can divine what the REAL state of the economy is since ALL of the evidence disagrees with you?

Comedy, sheer comedy. But as I've said, I WANT you to believe your own lies. Go sale all your stock, buy a bunker, etc. That way I can profit from you when nothing happens and you have to go buy that stock back. I'll be selling it to you.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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youll be selling it to me at a much lower price. And I shorted some stock today and made a nice little chunk of money thanks to all the chumps buying into this madness. You just keep buying right now and Ill keep selling to you and buying at that much lower price. Toodles.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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Anybody following the markets today, I think that our nations well being will be dictated by what is happening right now and is not looking good.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit

Reason 6 The credit crunch is for real. I just filed for a line of credit for my business we are opening another location and was denied. I have a credit score of close to 800 and very little debt so if they arent approving me who the hell are they approving for loans and loans are what small businesses need to grow.



You blow your whole argument with this paragraph. If everything is as bad as you say, why in the world would you even want to borrow money to open a new business location? This makes no sense to me and it destroys the entire premise of your argument.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 

and its not going to get any better. $100 oil get ready for $4 gas here soon. Keep telling me Lighindarkness that we are overdue for these high prices. Oh and why did they go up storms in Nigeria...hmmmmmm....its all a crock of shizznick. When the storms go away will oil go back down...of course not. Gotta love them speculators in the unregulated market.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 


Because I am an investor and I make money when the market is going up and down. I short in times like this like I did today and buy when we hit close to that bottom. My message isnt for me it is for every normal American out there who works 9 to 5 and lives paycheck to paycheck and whos money depends on thriving markets. I think my message of save for the bad times and hope for the good times is not a bad message. I think u need to read the whole thread before posting stuff like this I explained this earlier.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


He continues to try to cause panic, because if enough people panic he profits. Me too. Except I believe in honesty.

The "average" American should do as they have always done - work, and invest as much as they can for their retirement in a 401k (if matching) and Roth IRA. Take part in riskier investments if you are young now and slowly change your portolio to be more conservative as you get 5-10 years from retirement. If you don't want to balance it yourself, buy one of the target retirement funds now offered by everyone.

Nothing changes. Recessions come, recessions go. It is always a good idea to have 6 months of emergency money - at all times. Not because the sky is going to fall, but because you can't predict what happens in life.

Whatever you do, take with a grain of salt someone who tell us that (1) every piece of economic data is a lie but that (2) even though all the data is a lie, he can still divine through the gods that the economy is going to crash.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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The "average" American should do as they have always done - work, and invest as much as they can for their retirement in a 401k (if matching) and Roth IRA. Take part in riskier investments if you are young now and slowly change your portolio to be more conservative as you get 5-10 years from retirement. If you don't want to balance it yourself, buy one of the target retirement funds now offered by everyone.


Kind of hard to work and save till retirement when you lose your job like so many have because of this whole mess. People should have 6 months worth of savings for things that happen in life yes I agree....the things being..rising insurance costs. losing your job, rising energy prices, death in family, higher food prices. I think you agree with me on more than u admit. You say we need to save which is what I have been preaching...You say 6 months saving for when life happens and I say well for many people right now life is happening. Look at all the above problems above excluding death in family. That is a reality for the nation right now. Mabey not in your world but in most hardworking American peoples world.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Do you have any proof that everyone is losing their job? No, of course not - because all the government data is lies. Yet again the reason why no one will take you seriously. You proclaim to be able to divine what is REALLY going on even though all the data is "fake". Incredible.

As always, most people are fine and will always be fine. There is no great depression coming (at this time - I can't predict the future but it is unlikely) - just a regular recession. There is no need for panic. Anyone who has planned well in life will do fine with 6 months of expenses saved up. Lose your job, find another one. If you planned well, you have a diversified skill set.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 


Because I am an investor and I make money when the market is going up and down. I short in times like this like I did today and buy when we hit close to that bottom. My message isnt for me it is for every normal American out there who works 9 to 5 and lives paycheck to paycheck and whos money depends on thriving markets. I think my message of save for the bad times and hope for the good times is not a bad message. I think u need to read the whole thread before posting stuff like this I explained this earlier.


So you are looking after the average pay check to paycheck guy. That is comendable. What I don't understand is what you want them to do? They are living paycheck to paycheck so they do not have the capital to open a margin account and short the market like yourself, the economy is going to crash so being long the market in a low minimum mutual fund doesn't work for you either. Precious metals and foriegn currencies are probably out of the reach these folks as well.

That leaves Bonds and CD's. If you go along with your thesis that inflation is much higher than goverment reported figures, then you would also have to agree that such vehicles would be providing a negative real return, i.e. allowing you to purchase less and less each year with these assets. So cash and bonds don't work either.

I personally think that in the next few years our goverment will have to choice but to wipe the whole slate clean as it will be clear that salvalging the system is no longer possible. The dollar will be replaced, all bank debts will be erased. People will be free and those who had the balls to buy homes when they couldn't afford them will become financially free again. Without all this debt the economy will rock and roll like never before, until it all happens agin in another 100 years.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


Sounds very nice but tell that to both my neighbors hard working Americans both in their 50s that are now jobless and homeless as they lost their jobs to foreclosures one after losing a job that he held for 18 years and the other one falling to health related problems.

I don't know about you but here in my neck of the woods old small town southern GA life is no looking good for many people and retirement accounts are been depleted under health related problems and expensive medications, baby boomers are getting old they are getting sick and they need health care and social security is not enough so retirement accounts are going mostly for medical, life expenses and left over bills.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Nice use of logical fallacies - but even though you attempt to prove your point using fallacies (appeal to emotion, hasty generalization, and a few others) it does not change reality for me. Your neighbors are neither representative of the entire population nor does their bad fate mean that the sky is falling.

Rent if you can't afford a mortgage or can only afford a subprime mortgage. If no one in town wants your skill set, go back to school or move to another town. Get a job with excellent health care benefits.

But since we are all using singular stories that can't be generalized, I'll provide one of my own:

I know someone who grew up in a rural farm county and whose family lived for poverty throughout their lives. She studied hard in school, and got a scholarship to the University of North Carolina - a highly ranked (top 30) research school that is nationally known. She worked hard in college, worked a full time retail job too, and then when she graduated got a job at SAS. She worked hard at SAS, got into an executive position, and survived every down-sizing and technology bubble burst.

She later got slammed into by a drunk driver while on vacation. SAS - because she went with an employer that provides excellent benefits - gave her extended disability for years and then allowed her to enter early retirement, where they still pay for her costs. She worked hard for everything she got and even though life threw her lemons, she made the best of it and is more than secure due to her massive savings she has from her working years.

Don't you just hate it when people work hard and succeed? It must make all the doomsday prophets mad. For every "woe is them" story you provide, I can provide the exact opposite. Life is about choices. Make the right ones, or pay for the consequences.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


No one take me seriously? Im willing to bet you any amount of money 70% of America would agree with me in any survey than you. Im not the dillusional one. I dont need fake government data to tell me people are losing jobs I can down down any neighborhood and find that out. I can think and get info for myself I dont need the government to feed it to me.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 

What I suggest is watch what you spend and instead of going to ruby tuesdays mabey eat at home and put that money you save in your matress or in a bank account. Even though you live paycheck to paycheck we can all find ways to cut back somewhere one way or another. Im not suzy orman so Im not going to tell you what to do with your money but I can tell you what I do with mine and lately I have been stingy.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Making up what you want imaginary surveys to be doesn't matter. The reality is people like you give conspiracy theory a bad name, and almost no one would agree with you - some people on this forum will, but if you think this forum resembles the population your insane.

I want you to go out to 100 random people and tell them that everything the government says on the economy is a lie. Tell them you have no proof or evidence, but that it just must be true. Also let them know that while you have no data or evidence, we're entering into a depression, the sky is falling, etc. The reactions should be priceless.

I suggest you learn about the logical fallacy called hasty generalization. It is exactly what you are doing in this entire thread, and it is 100% wrong. Your unrepresentative sample DOES NOT generalize to the entire population, no matter how much you want it to.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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Re LightinDarkness



If no one in town wants your skill set, go back to school or move to another town. Get a job with excellent health care benefits.


I dont know if you know small town america but small town america dont have a lot of jobs to choose from and compliments of companies like wal mart that puts the small businesses that pay decent out of business to create the same amount of jobs for minimum wage it doesnt help. It also doesnt help that a lot of the manufacturing in small town USA is getting exported to China or India. Just the facts. Pull up any small town and email me and let me know about the wide selection of high paying jobs you see.




Nice use of logical fallacies - but even though you attempt to prove your point using fallacies (appeal to emotion, hasty generalization, and a few others) it does not change reality for me. Your neighbors are neither representative of the entire population nor does their bad fate mean that the sky is falling.

I dont know what neighborhood your from that isnt having any problems at all and that everyone is living with no problems at all financially or with their job. You MUST be living in a Dr Seuss book. Im willing to bet if you walk in your neighborhood and ask some of your neighbors how they are doing and tell them to answer honestly 65 to 70% will tell you they are not doing so great right now.

I live in a very nice neighborhood and I know personally 2 neighbors who had to move 1 of them because their business went under and the second she lost her high paying job and a big financial firm no names mentioned to India.



Don't you just hate it when people work hard and succeed? It must make all the doomsday prophets mad. For every "woe is them" story you provide, I can provide the exact opposite. Life is about choices. Make the right ones, or pay for the consequences.


I know you didnt just say this....guy you can make all the right choices in the world and still have your world crashing down on you ESPECIALLY if you work for someone and have to rely that they are making good choices in their business. Like I have said before there is a lot of luck involved in making it in this world. Working hard is the first part yes you are correct you will get nowhere if you work but there has to be some luck involved and frankly not everyone is as lucky as others. I know plenty of people who work hard and make good choices and have their world crashing down and I know you do to....you have to.....and the people who are lucky have a responsibility to not take advantage of the people who arent.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Thats right, small towns don't have a lot of jobs. Move. I did. I never said they did - thats why I said, if you can't find one - MOVE. Isn't freedom great?

Here is a reality check: all towns, everywhere, have problems, all the time. Throughout history. There is never going to be a perfect world, even in the socialist mecca you wish the United States was. That people have problems does not mean it is in the fault of something completely beyond their control, with rare circumstances excepted (act of God, health crises).

You are living in a fantasy world where you want to believe in all the doom and gloom is somehow recent. Delusional. You also want to believe your warped perception of the doom and gloom represents the entire nation. Also delusional.

There are few cases where you can't make the right choices to get where you want to be, with the exceptions listed above. If you work for someone and don't want to take the risk they go out of business, start your own business. If you do so, it will probably fail. Most businesses do. Life sucks, get over it. Life isn't fair, and it never will be.

Your next response will be more of the same: more "woe is us" stories about how the economy sucks and nothing is the fault of the individual - even though you lack data on everything you say. And I will continue to reply with logic and reason. Actually, I think I'll just start copying and pasting - much easier for me, since you've used the same talking points since page 1.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


Ok lets try something. Im going to jump into something I dont know much about but I think I can make a comparison to something you know about. Free Masons we pretty much know that a lot of our government have been a Free Mason. But when these people where asked they denied that such a society existed. So I submit to if I listened and abided by your point of view when they all said there is no Free Masonry involved in government that I should leave it as is not question it and go on with life. Well because a lot of people did question it shed some light on it and people dug up info and now we pretty much know it to be true. Who knows mabey 100 years down the road we will know what I am trying to say to be true by people like me shedding light on the matter.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


As you know (the probability of you picking this random topic shows that you've been reading my other threads), I am a freemason.

Most of United States government has not been masonic - a few presidents have, 17 I believe. Freemasonry has also never denied that it existed - there are lodges in almost every city with "ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS" OR "FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS" plastered all over the building. Most masons wear jewelry - at least a ring but I have also seen people wear masonic pendants. I have never known any mason to deny they were a mason to anyone, unless its Natzi Germany were masons were openly KILLED.

This is of course why you have created an invalid analogy, using several logical fallacies. The most obvious in this case is the associational fallacy (there is no correlation between the structure of government and structure of masonry).

The FACT is that there are freemasons in government, just as there are men, women, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. This is unsurprising. Invalid analogy on your part, try again. There was no digging to do to find a masonic government, because there is none and all of the research shows it.

You have no evidence for anything you say, you just want to be a soothsayer. Rational readers will ignore such delusions.



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