Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Somehow, he literally fulfilled this prophecy, lol.

Just to let everyone know (not that you wouldn't know) this is not what being a Christian is about. What has or is taking place at this church and inside the family homes (if accurate) is not Christian. Unfortunately there are many more churches out there like this as I have waded thru them in search of a loving bible church. Unfortunately this young man had no control as a child and was subjected to a twisted take on Christianity.

I will usually know within an hour if a church is not right and I leave. Christianity is about love and if you are being taught via abuse and high pressure tactics then you are not in a God loving Church.

Originally posted by DocMoreau
You say that you can relate to Murray. Hopefully you have not had to deal with as much trauma as he.

Not the same, I didn't go through fanatic religious cultisms,
but I do know what it's like to be physically and mentally
abused. I was reading a sociology book the other day,
out of pure curiosity, all that's there is just supporting what
I already know about the world, I'm too smart for my own good.

I am sorry that anything like this could happen to anyone. Hopefully you will find a way to heal, and not be compelled to act out like Murray.

I always thought of my end being by a head wound with a semi empty bottle of whiskey on the table, lol. Better be whiskey, rum sucks. Seriously now, I'm too busy acquiring knowledge to waste my life in blazing gunfire. I want to understand this world more. There is a purpose for everyone of us on this planet, to learn, to improve one self, see everyone's position, instead of worshiping a one sided ego-centric point of view (most people do that). I'm also tired of society forcing you to conform with guilt, if that don't work, they try intimidation and punishment, pathetic really, I'm a free spirit, I don't conform to no one's standards. We're here to improve ourselves anyways, not to achieve high social status, people are dumb for doing this, I get really tired of hearing people, especially women, talk their mouths off how they've made it big and how great they are. Lame man, lame. shows insecurity and the need to be noticed, they know they're pieces of crap and want people to think highly of them. I ramble sometimes...

Maybe providing more of your insight of ... specific examples of how people tried to condition you, will help you be proactive instead of reactive.

It starts in school, going through all the forms of brainwash would take too long, and I'd have to talk it over with my friends, I blocked a lot from high school and elementary, a sort of defense mechanism. All I can tell you is that first you become anti-conformist, then once you have your own head on your shoulders, and think for yourself, unlike everyone else, then the real bad tripping begins. School brainwashes people into being pro-gay with their bs sex ed classes. Then the media pushes the new fads now a days like emo and gangsta, disgusting. One promotes bisexuality while the other promotes anti-social behavior. School is a very socialist place, oh, everyone is equal, the American dream, blah blah bull crap, no one is equal, the equal opportunity is there, hell, what am I saying, not even. Not everyone's opinion is worth listening to, and yea, I find it annoying as hell to see everyone having something to say, even on subjects they have no clue about yet open their vile and disgusting mouths anyways. Most people are too busy glorifying themselves and their achievements to realize that there's other human beings around them. School teaches ego-centrism, socialism (basically making people think they care for everyone, but in fact it's illusion, they only pretend to so it makes them feel good about themselves), bisexuality, and anti-social behavior. That's school for you, breeding new generations of hateful self-absorbed self-righteous zealots who are out here only for themselves and could care less about the hobo sleeping on the bench, they'll wake him up and tell him to leave, making it even harder for him to find a good place to crash for the night. Stupidity like what looks good and what doesn't in society is also annoying, most people are alcoholics, yet we have all these stupid rules about not being allowed to drink in public. I could go on, but I'm running out of characters.

In regard to him fulfilling the prophecy, exactly! But more of a nervous laugh. As in, who are the church 'elite' that knew that he was a 'prophetic child'? If one does research into some of the mind-control techniques Murray described, you will find the use of 'triggers' to set off programmed behaviors or 'conditioned responses'.

Maybe, but I'm leaning more towards the need to glorify oneself in
a desperate act of revenge before ending it all. I think it's Auvinen
who said that he and people like him are normal consequences
brought by an abnormal world. and I agree. That could be
considered self conditioning if anything.

Perhaps Murray did exactly what this particular home school/religious upbringing raised hime to do? That he 'was' mind-controlled by the church, and that programming was activated so that this would happen.

Nah, you don't just click from a key word, you prepare for a long time to do this sort of thing, it's done consciously, driven by the need for revenge, fueled by constant human insolence, you get what you give.

The reason? Hmmm... Maybe to show how 'battle ready' the church is? I am not sure. Homegrown Terrorism Act or Gun Control?

Naah, that's just the end result, politicians use that to further the nwo agenda.

He did say that he didn't understand the Pastor's hypocrisy. Was that Pastor, Ted Haggard?

I'd go into generalization, usually a person like that doesn't have specific targets anymore, since society is his enemy, he generalizes, he probably meant all pastors. But yes, his statement's support would be people such as Ted haggard, why not?

If we look at the 'clues' that Murray left behind, he mentions a motley crew of characters, Aliester Crowley, Ted Haggard, Timothy McVeigh, The Columbine Shooters, and Ricky Rodriguez. What is the tie that binds?

The whole satanism aspect is just him rebelling against Christianity, the anti of Christianity is obviously satanism. These kids tend to resent everything that causes them pain, going into the opposite extremes. I'm enlightened though, I know better I know, I know, I'm just kidding, I still have a long way to go before I perfect myself. The general people are just the source of his greater pain, the school shooters he talks about are his brothers in arms who fight the stupid and unfair of the world. clear enough? Oh wow, eye opening when you bother to understand eh?
Maybe I'm giving out too much info, now the gov is gonna track them down
in the early stages and put them on drugs. Naaaaah. They already do that to everyone, hahaha. So many kids on Prozac, sickening.

Originally posted by starviego
Maybe he heard a trigger word ('Surrender') and suddenly froze up. And two male armed guards don't shoot at the perp and the perp doesn't shoot at them, leaving another to grab the glory. Hmmm...

You might actually be unto something there...

Recently she felt led to contact the church and offer her services as a “security guard” because she felt that there was a risk of some looney doing something crazy. She was apparantely the one who killed the shooter."

Crazy...




[edit on 20-12-2007 by Radekus]

I would not be surprised to see an exodus from New Life Church.

As much blame as this young man would have shouldered, IMO equal amounts should be placed on the church and his parents if the current info is accurate.

IMHO they should be all put in jail for a good 5 years.
They're responsible for his actions.

But I also find it extremely interesting that Murray attempted so many different 'faiths' in the three years since he was booted from the 12 week bible study program.

Why? He may have been like hundreds of millions of other individuals who don't find the solace they are looking for from the three traditional Abrahamic religions.

Interesting discussion.

I wonder was Murray on anti-depressants?

It would be a common thread in these massacre attacks.

Satanism aspect? What satanism aspect? You mean the OTO? Oh please absolutely nothing to do with Satan. Most OTO members don't acknowledge anything of the christian religion, they have their hosts of pagan deities and holy guardian angels.

OTO is not a cult. They do not suck you in and keep you. Oh sure there might be a chapter out there that is being run by a looney who tries to induce as many young men or women as he can into his sex magick rituals, but at least the members of the OTO aren't children like the Catholic Church's victims are.

Mormon-ism...100% cult in every single way.
L. Ron Hubbard pretty much stole Scientology from the Mormons,
there insane belief system is pretty close.

Oh as for the "suicide"...odd that a police officer and sharp shooter would hit him in the body six times, when they are trained to take down a perp with head shots. How does a man shot six times, raise a gun to his face to take his life when there are three armed, plus one unarmed man surrounding him?

There were conflicting reports, they killed him, he didn't kill himself.
They don't want these kids to survive, because they would become
celebrities almost, they would open their mouths and people would listen,
the system does not want this. The system does not like being exposed.
And I know, satanism is a philosophy if anything, nothing to do with
religion, well, some people think that way and do weird rituals and
play around with jesus bashing and cross burning, but that's just
those weird stupid exceptions.

The OTO's appropriation of Masonic ritual elements stems from two things
1) OTO magick is based heavily on Egyptian mysticism as is Masonic ritual
2) Aleister Crowley formed the OTO and was a Mason.

Groups have to exhibit certain behavior to truly be a cult.
Google "Signs of a cult" and you'll get page loads of basically the same info.
Pick your favorite.

Disagree with the mormon church and you can lose your wife (and home with her), and your kids, and status in their cultish community.

Disagree with your OTO leader and the worste you get is some group infighting and occasionally a break off sect that just becomes irrelevant. Sometimes a lawsuit will arise when these instances get dirty. There might be some black magick spells slung around, for all they are worth, which isn't much.