"YOUR Columbine" - Gunman wrote of rejection as reason for revenge

"YOUR Columbine" - Gunman wrote of rejection as reason for revenge

origin.denverpost.com

At times he was DyingChild_65, at others nghtmrchld26. But regardless of Matthew Murray's alleged screen name, he was always angry when posting to various anti-religious websites.
The 24-year-old Arapahoe County resident — who carried out attacks Sunday at two religious organizations about 70 miles apart, killing four people and injuring several others — exploded on the Internet between Sunday's shootings.

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Wow, I had an eerie feeling when this shooting occurred at the New Life Church that the pastor, Ted Haggard, got caught utilizing the services of a male prostitute for homosexual sex while under the influence of Crystal Methamphetamine.

I thought that the Ted Haggard incident was strange, and I think this incident may have some ties to the outing of Ted Haggard, almost one year to the day. Further in the Denver Post article they have quotes from his online postings where he invokes the memories of of a very strange group of individuals:

"Like Cho, Eric Harris, Ricky Rodriguez and others, I'm going out to make a stand for the weak and the defenseless this is for all those young people still caught in the Nightmare of Christianity for all those people who've been abused and mistreated and taken advantage of by this evil sick religion Christian America this is YOUR Columbine."

I only found one mention of Ricky Rodriguez here at ATS, and it is not a very 'pretty' scene. The shooter apparently had some interest in the OTO and the occult. That he attended several meetings, before being asked to leave. I think there may be more to this than what is being portrayed in the media. Even the 'blessed' security guard who shot the intruder, I can't find it now, but I read that she was the preson who 'beefed' up security after the initial attack in Denver.

Put on your sleuthing caps...
DocMoreau

origin.denverpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 16/12/2007 by DocMoreau]

Matthew Murray In His Own Words.

The above link compiles all his known web comments into one post for your review. (I couldn't read it all - too depressing)

Odd that he claims they insisted he was their "destined prophet of the nations".

He says thats the same thing Ricky Rodriguez claimed.

reply to post by makeitso


Thanks for that MakeitSo. Very sad indeed. I can't read through it all myself.

Does anyone else see the 'strangeness' here. The mention of Rickey Rodriguez, the 'prophet' stuff, the fact that the New Life Church is involved, membership in the OTO for over a year? Perhaps Matthew Murray was just troubled, like the mainstream media will imply, but for me there seems to be more 'meat' here than we are being fed.

I can't seem to find anything definitive, at least not yet.
DocMoreau

I was blessed with a non-christian childhood. This is what a lust for death brings. I don't even want to bother reading through all of it, it's too familiar yet so alien in its harshness. A reality we're all proud to have avoided, somehow.

What do Matthew Murray and Asqa Parvez have in common?

They endured spiritual abuse from their "well-meaning" parents and tribal community. They both died as a result of such abuse. Murray also killed others as a result of abuse.

The trouble with so much of this 'evidence' is that it comes from the net, where validity is hard to verify. Strange that so much of Murray's incriminating posts were posted in between the two shootings, when one would think he would be more afraid of being discovered before he could get his 'manifesto' out. And much of his stuff is plagiarized from other sources--i.e. Columbine's Eric Harris and all the quoted lyrics from black/death metal bands.

ps
The witness to the shootout in the church, Larry Bourbanais, has since been 86'ed from New Life because he refused to modify his story to fit the official version that Murray shot himself.

crap... there's reincarnation... I'm gonna have to live through this crap again?
uhhhh, why... why does my existence suck so... I read his stuff, man, this kid went to hell and back, multiple times. So... why fear death, if you know you're gonna keep on living. I ain't afraid of death, neither should everyone else. I don't flinch when cars roll at high speed towards me, if they kill me, then that's too bad. They accelerate then stop at the last minute, humans have serious mental issues.

Oh, and btw, I really have to make it clear to everyone of you, rejection wasn't the reason, it was merely a piece of the puzzle. Human evil was the cause, blame society.

Originally posted by starviego
Strange that so much of Murray's incriminating posts were posted in between the two shootings, when one would think he would be more afraid of being discovered before he could get his 'manifesto' out.

I agree. It seems strange that Murray had to get his 'manifesto' out. It is strange that Cho also 'had to get it out' as well. There is much to be learned about Murray's mindset in the last year.

The witness to the shootout in the church, Larry Bourbanais, has since been 86'ed from New Life because he refused to modify his story to fit the official version that Murray shot himself.

I had not heard this tidbit. I find this very interesting. Do you have a link to what Bourbanais says what happened? I think I would believe that sooner than the zoned out Security Guard, who at first claimed to have killed the attacker, 'with God acting through her' or whatever her exact line was. Her facial expressions in the press look very 'drugged' or 'hypnotized" to me. Maybe she was on valium or something after the ordeal.

I also wonder if anyone knows how many, if any of the Parishioners at the New Life Church, may or may not work at Peterson Air Force Base. Or in any of the military type jobs in the Colorado Springs Area. Seems likely to me. The size of the Church, and the Size of Peterson. Situations like this, could be a soft target attack on USNORTHCOM. I highly doubt it though.

DocMoreau

Originally posted by Radekus
Oh, and btw, I really have to make it clear to everyone of you, rejection wasn't the reason, it was merely a piece of the puzzle. Human evil was the cause, blame society.

Okay.... Society as a whole? Why did he attack two places connected to the 'society' of New Life Church then? Do you know what 'human evil' caused him to snap? Did you know him personally? Or are you just making a vague overview of the situation?

Thats fine, but I think there maybe something much 'darker' than any of us know about possibly going on at the New Life Church. Something that happened to Murray was caused by the Church. I don't know if it was sexual abuse, or rejection or what, but something just doesn't 'feel' right about the attacks, the 'manifesto', the story of how he was subdued... something isn't right. At least to me. Maybe I am wrong, but something is not adding up.

DocMoreau

Some interesting tidbits from the "Connections" section of the Wikipedia Article about the incident....
From: 2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings

It was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier Arvada missionary shooting, 70 miles (113 km) away. However, police were already at the home of Matthew J. Murray prior to the second shooting, conducting an investigation.[4]
At the Arvada missionary shooting, two people died and two were wounded at 12:30 a.m. after a gunman opened fire in a dormitory at a missionary training center on the campus of Faith Bible Chapel.[3]

Reportedly, Murray was homeschooled in a deeply religious Christian household, and he attended, but did not complete, a missionary training program at the YWAM Arvada facility in 2002.[4] Law enforcement officials stated that Murray 'hated Christians', and that the hate crime appeared to be motivated by hatred of Christianity,[14]

His expulsion from the school was confirmed by Cheryl Morrison, whose husband, George Morrison, is pastor of the Faith Bible Chapel adjacent to YWAM Denver. She didn't know specifics of the conflict. "I don't think that ‘run-in’ is the word, but they did have to dismiss him. It had to be something of significance, because they go the nth degree with people." Murray was expelled from the school due to "strange behavior," which included playing frightening rock music and claiming to hear voices.[20]

Before the second shooting, Murray left several violent and threatening messages on several religious websites, espousing his hatred for Christianity and his intentions on killing as many Christians as possible.
One message read: "I'm coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the ...teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. ...God, I can't wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don't care if I live or die in the shoot-out. All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."

In another of his very last posts, made that morning to a Usenet newsgroup,[24] he identified himself as being a member of a local branch of the Ordo Templi Orientis, an occult group that includes sex magic among its teachings. According to the chapter leader, Murray had attended their events for one or two years, but his request for membership was turned down[25] and he was asked to leave in either September[24] or October[25]

Additional internet postings discovered after the shooting revealed that Murray was bi-sexual or possibly homosexual.[27]

Okay, so the police already had him as a suspect to the 12:30am shootings in Arvada, before the second shhoting in Colorado Springs.

He was raised strict Christian.

Apparently he was kicked out of the 12 week bible program 3 years ago because of "frightening' music and claiming to hear voices.

Apparently converted to Mormonism

Had time to post several messages online, including his 'war cry against christians', his involvement with the OTO, and that he was either bisexual or homosexual.

I would imagine that a homosexual brought up in a fanatic Christian household, could cause various issues of self loathing and hatred of others, especially those who 'deny' you. In a Christian context, hearing voices would be 'evil', but in a scientific one, it could be a sign of Schizophrenia, which often occurs in early adulthood.

Maybe that is the case. Maybe he was gay and couldn't deal with it within the morals he was raised with. I still think there might be something more to this than we are getting.
DocMoreau

Originally posted by DocMoreau
I would imagine that a homosexual brought up in a fanatic Christian household, could cause various issues of self loathing and hatred of others, especially those who 'deny' you. In a Christian context, hearing voices would be 'evil', but in a scientific one, it could be a sign of Schizophrenia, which often occurs in early adulthood.

He could have been schizophrenic. He could also have been neuro-atypical in other, less extreme ways, and needed support, and opportunities for intellectual exploration and development. Remember, extreme Christians can be very prejudiced against neuro-atypicals.

Maybe that is the case. Maybe he was gay and couldn't deal with it within the morals he was raised with. I still think there might be something more to this than we are getting.
DocMoreau

That could also be a factor.

And his cold unfeeling parents, despite their efforts to raise him in the "proper Christian" way, gave little emotional support. They seemed to care more about "the Son" than about their own flesh-and-blood son.

I feel there are just too many factors involved in why he did what he did.

I was raised in a VERY similar environment to him. VERY. My parents were pastors. They were super duper strict. They monitored what we watched on TV, what music we listened too, what books we read, who we talked to on the phone, who we called friends.....and the list goes on.

I was not allowed to have a friend that was male/boyfriend/date until I was 18. And even at 18, I was still living at home, they looked down upon it.

At one point in my upbringing, my father took an offer as one of the associate pastors of a church (before pastoring his own church). That church ended up being the most horrifying experience of my life. In fact, there is an entire website dedicated to the horrors that went on (beatings, sexual abuse, etc etc). We lasted a year at that church when my parents finally left it. I have some outrageous stories to tell from it.

Anyways, until I finally moved out of my parents house, I felt imprisoned, as you can imagine.

I say all of that to say........his upbringing is not the sole blame for his life as an adult and the horrible thing he did.

Despite having the same upbringing as his (and maybe even worse in some cases), my siblings and I came out of it w/out being screwed up adults.

I could have come out of my experience a complete psychological mess....but I didnt. I chose to live a different life then how I was raised and am better for it.

He could have made that choice (maybe).....however, maybe there were other factors that prevented him from making that choice (mental, chemical imblanace, etc). I just dont think one can solely blame religion and his upbringing.

Im not saying anyone here is doing that....just making a general statement.

Originally posted by DocMoreau

Okay.... Society as a whole? Why did he attack two places connected to the 'society' of New Life Church then? Do you know what 'human evil' caused him to snap? Did you know him personally? Or are you just making a vague overview of the situation?

Thats fine, but I think there maybe something much 'darker' than any of us know about possibly going on at the New Life Church. Something that happened to Murray was caused by the Church. I don't know if it was sexual abuse, or rejection or what, but something just doesn't 'feel' right about the attacks, the 'manifesto', the story of how he was subdued... something isn't right. At least to me. Maybe I am wrong, but something is not adding up.

DocMoreau

Religion was the source of most of his pain.
I understand him, you couldn't possibly,
I already tried to explain to people the why,
no one listens, they rather argue that they themselves
are in the right. Where I search to make people understand,
I receive strict opposition because people have to show me,
well, they do, they show me they're stupid.

Listen man, you read some of the things he posted?
Abuse at home, physical as well as psychological,
if you had to deal with this 24/7, you'd go kill people too.
Why do you think he calls his life a never ending nightmare.
My theory is he ran away from home, tried to find shelter,
they refused him, so he killed people. The last straw as I would
call it. Maybe he just tested the true goodness of the church, to fuel his
need to take revenge, whichever, everything happens for a reason.
There is a lot of evil in this world, ego-centrism pushed by society,
people are deluded, they worship themselves, instead of bettering themselves. Want more reasons?

What the hell, he was a bi-sexual, possibly homosexual?
Then why is one of his postings bitching about not being able to
find a decent woman and get laid? Media trying to make
him look like a freak, that's what I think. Get your facts straight.

reply to post by Radekus


Are you telling me to get my facts straight? I am trying...
Thats what this thread is about. Trying to separate the facts from the fiction.

Personally, I think the media is working overtime on this.

But I also find it extremely interesting that Murray attempted so many different 'faiths' in the three years since he was booted from the 12 week bible study program. That there are questions as to his sexuality, supposedly from him. And I still find the connection to the Ted Haggerd scandal one year earlier.

I think it also very condescending for you to assume that 'you understand him, but that I couldn't possibly'. First, do you know me? Second, did you know him personally, or are you making that assumption because of your own trials and tribulations in your own life? Either way, if you have so much 'insight' on this, perhaps you can try again 'to explain the why' without lumping the blame on the whole of society, or calling us stupid. I am not sure who the people you have tried to explain this to that hasn't listened... At least I provide links, while you provide what you think... Can you provide links to how "Human Evil" was at the root of this, and that society is to blame?

I am not trying to get into a battle with you or anyone on this, only try to find some truth among the conjecture....
DocMoreau

reply to post by makeitso

I was rereading Matthew Murray In His Own Words and I have to say that somehow I missed this part:

“Prophetic Child”

Since I was at least age 6 my mother and her church friends have always told me about how my birth was “foretold.” They say that while I was still in my mother’s womb a “prophet” told my mother that I was to be, quote, “a prophet to the nations” and something along the lines of the next Billy Graham/Peter Wagner.

They said that the following verses applied to me:

Mat. 12.18 and Ezk. 36:26-28

Basically, they believe that I am their “chosen one” for “the end times” and according to the Ezekial passage they believe that I am going to go back to their church/system.

Those verses are:

Version: King James Version
Matthew 12:18

Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

and

Version: KJV

Ezk. 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Version: KJV

Ezk. 36:27

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Version: KJV

Ezk. 36:28

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

From:www.biblelookup.com...

Somehow I missed that his parents, and the 'elite' of the church viewed him as 'the chosen one for the endtimes' before. That he wasn't supposed to talk about it with anyone, is also very interesting.

DocMoreau

reply to post by DocMoreau


Wow. That is REALLY creapy....very disturbing.

His parents set him up to fail IMO.

Even if what his parents said were true - then there would NEVER have been a need to tell him this. It would have just happened. Instead, they placed incredibly high and unreasonable expectations on him. Sad.

On 11/12/07 he also posted:

Eight Marks of a Mind-Control Cult by Randall Watters

Brainwashing has become almost a household word in the last two decades or so. In 1961, Robert J. Lifton wrote the definitive book on the subject, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism, after studying the effects of mind control on American prisoners of war under the Communist Chinese. Lifton outlines eight major factors that can be used to identify whether a group is a destructive cult or not. Any authoritarian religion should be held up to the light in order to determine just how destructive their influence is on their members. Judge for yourselves.

I did not include all 'Eight Marks', but I find it very interesting that he felt that his Church was a Mind-Control Cult. I would assume that since he says that the church 'elite' considered him some sort of 'prophet', that the former pastor, Ted Haggard would be a part of that 'elite' up until 13 months ago. Would that mean that Haggard had access to Murray, privately? I don't know...

But there is much more here than what is being let out in the media. This kid was at least mentally and emotionally abused, but I think that there may have been sexual abuse as well. The search continues...
DocMoreau