Capital punishment for murder and sex crimes.

Goose, there is only some much work to be done in a jail, and a work range IS a higher static in prison. I know because I work in Corrections. Besides, the individuals would never make it to a normal range, let alone a work range, because they would be attacked by the other inmates. They would be in PC(protective custody) or Segregation. Djarums, I couldn't agree more.

Djarums, I couldn't agree more

And I would pull the trigger

You do not worry about the rights of a rabid dog you shot him not as punishment or as revenge but to keep him from biting again. Some of you say that it doesnt work becaused its not used all the time so locking them up is the answer

point number 1. It should be used ALL the time.

Point number 2. Most baby rapers get at best one or two years if not probation how the hell is that seperating them from us? Do you feel better knowing that now you have a baby raper roaming the street that has not been laid in two years? Even if they are locked up for life there is a chance of escape, there is only ONE method that assures that this piece of # will NEVER harm a child again.

Originally posted by intrepid
Goose, there is only some much work to be done in a jail, and a work range IS a higher static in prison. I know because I work in Corrections. Besides, the individuals would never make it to a normal range, let alone a work range, because they would be attacked by the other inmates. They would be in PC(protective custody) or Segregation. Djarums, I couldn't agree more.

I know there is only so much work in prison thats why I said move a pile of gravel from one spot to another all day long, also I woud assume that if we gave murderers a life sentence wth no parole then they would all be imprisoned together and as I said before if everyone has to work then there is no status for having a job and I don't think standing on your feet 12 hrs. moving gravel would be something anyone would want to do. As for killing sexual predators and all murderers in a world where there is no chance to put an innocent person to death then I would agree, but since we don't live in that world, is it ok to sacrifice a few innocent people(118 we know for sure) to get the guilty,and if it is Ok are you prepared to sacrifice your life or your childs or a family member just so we get the guilty in the process,and of these 118 innocent people murdered by the state, that means 118 guilty people went free. Thats why I say life with no parole, the innocent ones have a chance to prove their innocence and the guilty don't get out on parole to kill again, which is what is currenty happening, I'm also for locking up sexual predators for life.

[Edited on 8-2-2004 by goose]

Thats why I say life with no parole, the innocent ones have a chance to prove their innocence and the guilty don't get out on parole to kill again, which is what is currenty happening, I'm also for locking up sexual predators for life.

What world do you live in? A murderer here in arkansas MIGHT get 10-20 years but would be out on parole in 2-3 years and a baby-raper will probibly NEVER go to prison for the first offense. I have seen murderers get probation.............really.

The reason? Manditory drug laws, they CANNOT, by law, release the man locked up for coke or pot so they HAVE to let the murderers and rapists go. I know I feel a lot safer knowing those pot smokers are locked up, I guess my kids can look out for themselves.

I'm not talking about manslaughter, I'm talking PREMEDITATED murder. Murder 1, whatever you want to call it. This persons intent was to take a life. If you're willing to do it once, cold-bloodedly, if someone got in you're way again, are you hoping that they grew a consience?

HOMICIDE - MANSLAUGHTER, MURDER
1. A killing, lawful or unlawful, of one human being by another.
2. Unlawful killing with or without intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm.
www.legallawhelp.com...

by Amuk:
I have been in the army and I am a killer.
Does that make me a murderer?
The circumstances should be taken into consideration.

Technically, yes, like even you said yourself, you are a killer/murderer. Under the circumstances you killed as a soldier as an act of War, and as they say, War is Hell. You were trained to kill, ordered to kill, so you killed. Does this make you the same as a Rapist or Child Molester, Definately NOT! Does this make you the same as a psychopath who kills for personal pleasure, NO, of course not. Don't take this the wrong way either, I'm not trying to judge you, I'm just stating the facts. My Grandfather was a soldier, my Father build ICBM's & one of my best friends was a Sniper(a good one at that) and I'd tell them the same thing.

The point is Everyone has their 'Justification' for why they do what they do. But if you agree that 'Killing' is not allowed, then that's it period. Once you open the door to 'Justifying' this reason or that reason why killing is ok, you've put the crack in the dam that will eventually bring down the entire thing. The following was taken from an article with a similar point of view, using Timothy McVeigh as the example.

Death unjustifiable - By Matt Schroeder

It's the question nobody wants to answer: why should we not kill Timothy McVeigh? After all, he killed 168 people, injured several hundred more and traumatized an entire nation. His crimes were horrible, and like most people, I can't even begin to imagine the suffering Oklahoma City went through.

It's been said that executions were made for people like McVeigh, and I've struggled with this a lot, as everyone has. However, putting him to death keeps him from taking responsibility for what he did. It also keeps us from confronting our own problems, and it is going to degrade us all by legitimizing exactly what he bombed a federal building for.

A common justification for the death penalty is that it makes the murderer take responsibility for his actions. I have no idea how...If we really cared about Tim McVeigh's responsibility, we'd keep him alive in prison. We'd make him work, and everything he did for the rest of his life would go toward restitution for the victims' families. Obviously, nothing is going to compensate for the loss of any of the 168 people;

Actually, throwing the power of the state at McVeigh only proves his fears right...After McVeigh, Juan Raul Garza will be the next on June 19. After that, it'll be easier and easier. Why do we tolerate a government with the power to kill its own citizens?

As Albert Camus wrote 44 years ago, "we must proclaim, in our principles and institutions, that the individual is above the state." Camus also said that an execution is like a father killing his wayward son with the lazy words "Really, I didn't know what to do with him."

Like it or not, Timothy McVeigh and his murders are a part of us and killing him keeps us from accepting and understanding that dark side. Surgeons have no right to cover up their botched operations, writes Hugo Adam Bedau, and "the criminologist, like the surgeon, has no right to bury the human consequences of his ignorance, errors and mistakes."

In the end, we're fooling ourselves if we think this execution will place responsibility on anyone, increase respect for law and order or cover up all the hatred we contain. Humans are not pinnacles of virtue, and we have no right to declare anyone unworthy of life. We can't be the virtuous assassins we want to be. Revenge is no principle to found a government upon, least of all a government with the power of death; just ask Bud Welch, who lost his daughter Julie in the bombing but opposes McVeigh's execution.
flathat.wm.edu...

Don't take this as me being soft on criminals such as Sexual Offenders. Current prison conditions are way to soft for violent offenders. Repeat offenders are also proof of a system that has failed. Once you are convicted of a violent crime, getting released again should be practically unheard of. When convicted and given Life+ without possibility of ever getting out, I'm talkin' serious lock down and minimal provisions, most of which the prisoners themselves are made to provide for themselves. Anything extra goes to 'Pay Back' victims or society at large. Basically take them back to living in the 1500's, and living under a militant authority.

If you impose the death penalty for crimes other than murder there is no inducement for the rapist to let the victim live, indeed he would wiser to kill her.

Originally posted by deevee
If you impose the death penalty for crimes other than murder there is no inducement for the rapist to let the victim live, indeed he would wiser to kill her.

I understand your point on this. The point being that such criminal punishment would turn a Rapist into Murdering Rapists. I really don't think that is a problem however since many who are would have rather been killed instead of going through what they had gone through. The fact that we allow Rapists who severly abuse and rape another person off simply because they didn't kill the person is stupid.

If I attempted to kill you, but the bullet just happend to miss your heart and you lived. Why should I only get 20-25 years (just an example) instead of being tried for murder?? My crime was the same either way, I was just unseccessful at doing it.

what about that guy who just raped and killed that 11 year old girl? he should be put to death. i am to young to have kids but im sure anyone here with kids would agree the only thing to do for him is execute him, and not even that will do. rapists should be given the death penalty. most of the people who are raped never recover fully and are mentally scared. i think its just as bad to see somebody you love rot from the inside from being raped, than it is to see someone you love murdered. i think the only acceptable punishment for murderers and rapists is execution. i can understand all other types of crime but not those two.

Originally posted by ihatethisplace
what about that guy who just raped and killed that 11 year old girl? he should be put to death. i am to young to have kids but im sure anyone here with kids would agree the only thing to do for him is execute him, and not even that will do. rapists should be given the death penalty. most of the people who are raped never recover fully and are mentally scared. i think its just as bad to see somebody you love rot from the inside from being raped, than it is to see someone you love murdered. i think the only acceptable punishment for murderers and rapists is execution. i can understand all other types of crime but not those two.

That is simply because Execution is the simplest answer, not because it's the only thing to do. The guy you're talking about shouldn't get off that easy. Killing him for the abuse and loss of life he has caused, like you said yourself, will not be 'made up' by killing him. In fact I would say that He could NEVER 'pay back' for what he's done. But instead of simply killing him, why not allow him to live and make him try and give back something every second of the rest of his life. Force him to take responsibility for what he's done. Either way, it will never make what he did ok again. Killing him back doesn't help anything either, and allows the Government/State the ability to Kill People. Keeping him locked up and forcing him to work in some way for the rest of his life atleast makes him accountable for something.

i can agree with you that the death penalty isnt the best way to deal with violent criminals. and that there should be some sort of retribution. but this topic is so hard to decide on because all crimes are different although they add up to the same answer(crimes of murder and rape) this man for exampleraped and murdered this 11 yr old girl. and your right there will never be retribution. but when is enough enough. that man had a long list of arrests. when is enough going to be enough. we have come a long way from hanging poeple because they stole some horses, but some times there is no light at the other end for these people. they are to far gone. but at the center of it all its a moral issue. how can we legitamize killing and expect the people not to. its a tough decision. but sometimes its better to just b erid of these people. i mean who pays for these peole? everyone does.

Well we've heard from a younger person, and that would be a feeling of greater security if a rapist didn't breath. The point just doesn't seem to be getting through. These people can't be rehabilitated. You're talking about them paying, suffering, in jail? Jesus, I have to worry about bills,weather to get to work, whether I will be able to provide for my kids tomorrow if I get hurt, etc.. They have no worries. Food, shelter & cable T.V. is provided. The cost of a CP trial is high, but $200/day to keep this scum adds up to. Thats $67,000/year to keep one. Translate that to even 20 years, and that makes the trial a bargain sale.

Ok, I see what you're saying. Let's first of all, take personal feelings out of the way and look at it from sort of a 3rd party non-bias perspective.

Let's deal with just killing for now also to keep it simple. Murder of another person is agreed to be wrong, illegal, etc. That goes for anyone for any reason. If you get pissed at your cheating wife, a degenerate low life, a corrupt business partner, a lying government official or you're just a sick-o, and kill, you're guilty, done deal.

Now, once totally removed from Society, that person is no longer able to continue killing, so regardless of what they've done, they are now stopped from doing it ever again. Now, on one hand you can kill them back. This does nothing for the actual victim(obviously they are dead) or the victims families, friends, etc. The arguement of "making sure that nobody else is harmed" has already been taken care of, so all that would be accomplished by execution is giving others a chance to witness an execution take place. Also you've now just made 'Killing', which is supposed to be wrong/illegal, justifiable under certain conditions and given the State/Federal Government the ability to kill others as well. (It's no wonder that the Government uses Fear and Tactics against it's own people now is it. Every time they do it, all the people tell the Government to now Go Kill cause we want Revenge, which is what they want to do anyway. Think about it!!)

Or you could keep the person alive, live in conditions similar to a military work camp in mideval time era and force them to DO SOMETHING to benifit either the victims families or society at large. That includes doing whatever is needed to produce his own food, etc.

Think about it. If you killed someone and faced either 'execution' or the rest of your life, every day, living as a caged animal, working as a slave, until you finally died, which would you choose?? Which would help keep you from commiting the crime in the first place??

Or you could keep the person alive, live in conditions similar to a military work camp in mideval time era and force them to DO SOMETHING to benifit either the victims families or society at large. That includes doing whatever is needed to produce his own food, etc.

What do you propose the criminal does to benifit the victims families? Personally, if I was the victim, I would never want to see or hear about him or from him again.

Mojom, please read the thread, I work in Corrections. The people are predators, like a hyena. They will do anything to survive. To answer your question, if they were facing death they would think twice about it. They would rather go through hell to get back to their fix.Rape. You are looking from it from a normal point of view. They don't have one. If you can understand an addict, realize that this is a rapists drug. You can't change them, even though you wish you could. Also I'm not talking about an oops, as far as murder goes, I'm talking about PREMEDITATION, not an accident.

Originally posted by intrepid
Well we've heard from a younger person, and that would be a feeling of greater security if a rapist didn't breath.

The point just doesn't seem to be getting through. These people can't be rehabilitated. You're talking about them paying, suffering, in jail? Jesus, I have to worry about bills,weather to get to work, whether I will be able to provide for my kids tomorrow if I get hurt, etc.. They have no worries. Food, shelter & cable T.V. is provided. The cost of a CP trial is high, but $200/day to keep this scum adds up to. Thats $67,000/year to keep one. Translate that to even 20 years, and that makes the trial a bargain sale.

You're assuming too much. Don't put words into what is being said than anyone is saying. I'm not saying jail as in Cable TV and Weightlifting, etc. If you would read my posts you'd see what I'm saying. Another thing is complaining about how much $$ it costs is all misinformation and bad judgement too, let me explain. First you are attempting to equate Human Life to a monitary Value, regardless of them being criminal or not, it all starts somewhere. Second, all that crap about how much it costs to feed them and stuff is all LIES, cause all that money goes into the pocket of Officials who run the prisons, or Political Members who made it possible. Think about it, all these "Save the Children" shows on TV are able to Feed, Shelter, Teach, etc. kids for like .60 cents a day. How is that possible yet it costs something like $500 a day or whatever for a prisoner. Cause some of it is pocketed, and the rest is wasted on computers and basketball courts and tv's and crap for those who don't deserve it.

kill the killers (if its without a doubt they did it) and put the rapists in a cell with a bigger rapist named 'the horse' for the rest of their perverted lives and see how they like it

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
What do you propose the criminal does to benifit the victims families? Personally, if I was the victim, I would never want to see or hear about him or from him again.

OK, read the first few lines of that previous post. "Let's take the emotional part out of it!! and look at it without a personal bias to the situation!"

Another thing, is you don't have to see or hear about them if you don't want. They can be made to do a million different things. There are millions of slave labor jobs that are being done by innocent people all over the world, from pressing metal, to smashing rocks to fixing roads, to picking trash, etc.....

NOTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED BY SIMPLY EXECUTING THEM. IT'S A FACT.

Just a side note, I'm not saying that you can't be For Murder. That is your choice. But you can't be Against Murder and For Murder at the same time, simply by saying certain types of murder are really ok. That is just stupid, just say outright that you think killing people is ok, but don't try and fool yourself or others to going along with obviously bad logic. Either x=x or it doesn't, x doesn't =y.

Mojom, you are making me consider getting off my own thread, not because you are bringing lucid thought to it, but because of my signiture. I have told you I work in the field, yet you discount what I say. As to the monetary value I was including another post on this thread. Is there "skim?" Of course, it's governmet. I work for them, I don't trust them. I know the difference between those people and me, they keep raping and when in their presense I am able to control my urge to kill them.

Originally posted by intrepid
Mojom, please read the thread, I work in Corrections. The people are predators, like a hyena. They will do anything to survive. To answer your question, if they were facing death they would think twice about it. They would rather go through hell to get back to their fix.Rape. You are looking from it from a normal point of view. They don't have one. If you can understand an addict, realize that this is a rapists drug. You can't change them, even though you wish you could. Also I'm not talking about an oops, as far as murder goes, I'm talking about PREMEDITATION, not an accident.

My uncle was a Marshal, and worked for the prisons for years. I've heard all his stories of what these people are like. I also agree with you, these people are not normal. But again you are assuming that I'm suggesting letting these people OUT. I am not saying that. I'm simply saying once you have them, don't kill them, but I'm not saying let them out again!!!! Their fix, be it rape or whatever, isn't a problem when they are in a cage. Unless they rape themselves or a brick wall, that problem is solved.