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Mobile Labs to Target Iraqis for Death

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posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by goosdawg

That's odd, I found the same video.

Only it's called "30 mm murder."

I don't see these people carrying any guns, do you?

I suppose it makes it more palatable to watch if you label them "insurgents" and pretend it's only a video game.


Insurgents tend to attack American troops with IEDs, hence no need for guns when its just a cell phone of some kind that detonates an IED. Which is why the Apache spotted and follow them after an attack.


Easy to post, not so easy to prove.

IMHO this is nothing but a presumptive rationalization for displaying a chest-thumping, self-pleasuring display of snuff porno.

Show me, nay, show us all where YouTube says this is a video of "insurgents" after an IED attack.

As the skeptics and debunkers are so fond of saying, "prove it."

Find the source of this video and post verifiable evidence that this despicable display of ruthless premeditated force is what you claim it to be, and I'll temper my disgust with what you posted, for apparently nothing more than grins and giggles.

Uh...please.

I.2 million dead "insurgents" may just disagree.

If they weren't already dead.




posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 07:22 PM
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Interesting to see how weapons of mass destruction are given fancy names and excuses to hide the fact that their purpose is nothing else than the destruction of other humans beings that doesn't want to become puppets of the occupation power.

Those that believe in God should pray that one day we do not find ourselves in the same shoes as the nation of Iraq and the Iraqi people.

This weapons are nothing than another excuse to keep killing people in the name of righteousness.

Despicable.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Cuhail
 

NEWS had a guy non-conform for a breath test. He got the Tazer...for that.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by Ironclad
reply to post by Cuhail
 


LOL I can just picture it now.

I'm walking down the street, minding my own business, when I suddenly feel a high powered bullet entering through the back of my skull.

The officer's excuse/reason.... "the machine told me to do it"... !!!


Naw, you'd never feel it. I doubt most of the bad guys in the videos did either.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Cuhail
What?!? A targeting aide? A machine(???) that can scan and summarize a target?


The US military utilizes a biometric data system to identify and catalog people in certain fields, situations and settings. Biometrics encompasses everything from your DNA, fingerprint, facial structure, iris, voice, hand print etc… Essentially a way to collect and classify information about a human being in order to use it for identification and recognition. Currently the technology is mature and in wide use but it not yet fully integrated, organized requires relatively bulky equipment which is limited to (sometimes) ad hoc infrastructure and central units. The military has had these terminals in Iraq and elsewhere for some time now but you can obviously see the limitations. It requires that a person be brought in for proper measurements to be taken and for proper analyses to be conducted. This uses up resources, time, and it creates other problems. It generally limits our ability to fight and conduce the type of dynamic and sensitive operations which are unique to the type of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, an insurgency.

As such, the military has made the system compact enough to be installed on a modified military vehicle. While not ideal, it is an improvement, the troops will be able to use a mobile version for identification and classification. Instead of rounding up a large group of people, creating animosity (if innocent Iraqis are caught up), using resources to transport them to a local camp, taking up valuable time scanning in he suspects, losing that element of pressure (intimidation, on the scene development) present when the questioning and investigation is done on the site in one fluid motion. And not when it's done in a holding hall several hours later individually under more relaxed conditions away from other (perhaps) involved individuals and related scene sites and material.

Given that our enemy in Iraq hides among the civilian population, travels from one location to another, uses local individuals and an informal structure of personnel and communication, information is paramount. Giving all units operating throughout Iraq mobile units to collect and process more data quickly and more efficiently will help the war effort. Every unit will be linked to the same central database each having access to information the other collects. If one individual (claimed name Abdul) was scanned and questioned in Mosul for example on suspicion of involvement but was ultimately released. Anther unit in Basra for example may catch a man (claimed name Hamid) in suspicion of a crime. Scan him in and discover that a week ago he was entered in as Abdul in Mosul. Given the highly unlikely circumstances surrownding him this would be sufficient grounds for detainment and further investigation.

The above is but a small and inadequate explanation of the wide array of uses and benefits such a mobile and integrated system will have.

The ultimate goal is to develop the technology to the point where each individual soldier will have a pack with the necessary equipment to be able to perform such scans and analyses on his own and in real time.


Originally posted by Cuhail
I guess it is connected to a biometric data base in West Virginia and can run the data sent from the battlefield and return a form of action.


Yes, each unit does not carry a database with them, for obvious technical and security reasons, however they will all be linked to the same central database via satellite for instant updates etc… However it returns no actions and or messages, the soldier, the information in itself is just data, the soldier and the commander decide how best to utilize it.


Originally posted by Cuhail
Be it death, torture or freedom for the subject.


Umm… why are you purposely being dishonest, ignorant and provocative? See the above for a rational, non attention seeking, coherent analyses and response.


Originally posted by Cuhail
Scary. When's this going to come home to every squadcar on the street?


First, it's not scary, stop fear mongering. Second, the authorities already have mobile identification systems on automobiles, some form of biometric data included, such as finger print and visual information. And there are currently an array of other programs and systems being developed and fielded by US civilian law enforcement agencies.

Police Biometrics
Biometrics And Law Enforcement
New Biometric Systems


Originally posted by Harlequin
been done before - vans driving around killing people based upon the badge they wear - in this case `biometric profiling` is just a new name for an old badge.


Umm… are you also out to post irrational nonsense in order to vent your hatred for a particular country and society via ridicules assertions and information? Must be otherwise why would anyone make such a post, perhaps to use the tired Nazi card in hopes of fueling the crowd into a emotional illogical frenzy in order to dilute the thread with pointless comparisons and statements (like the donor one... *sigh*). While at the same time posting nothing constructive and informative to the actual topic at hand. Once again, I apologize for taking the bait, continue with your agenda at will…


Originally posted by goosdawg
Not to mention wireless tasers, "puke rays", active denial systems, Holosonics, and "Intrusive Brain Reading Surveillance Technology."


The military has always been at the forefront of pioneering, developing and fielding less than lethal systems for crowd control and other security purposes. Regardless of what name you purposely want to reference these systems by the fact remains they reduce collateral damage, limit the affected area, reduce physical and psychological harm for those involved and generally preserve life, is possible. I don't understand, you are aware of the alternatives, why someone would be against more humane methods of security is beyond me. Nut then again I don't have an agenda to push in order to scare the uninformed with such childish tactics as labels and a general attitude that new technology and systems are to be feared and avoided.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
what I find even more alarming is how plainly they mention "shooting him on the spot".


Perhaps if one read the article in question we would discover that the above mentioned, and all related quotes, come from a single individual, Anh Duong. A weapons developer for the Department of Defense, I have seen her speak in many occasions and I do not hesitate to call her highly opinionated and fiercely patriotic. As such her opinion and personal explanation regarding this technology and how it will be employed should be treated as such, opinion. She has no authority and or otherwise capacity to direct, dictate, formulate and or influence US military regulations, US government policies and the behavior of US service members.

Therefore your entire post and its premise is, I'm sorry to say, irrelevant. The context by which it was based on is wrong, the comments are the opinion of a single individual, not official US policy. So they cannot be used, rationally, to attack and question an entire government over such an issue. Her explanation regarding fielding and use is not well informed and therefore wrong. If you, and others who have used these quotes from Mrs. Duong, to further your agenda laden argument and statements are really interested in US military policy is refer you the US Army Field Manual

Recommended Reading

Listed Book


Originally posted by Cuhail
Sorry, I think I'm throwing it way out of context for discussions sake, but, I want to hear some reaction to this.


Ah, I see now, irrelevant, uneducated, unreasonable and irrational emotional diatribe all designed to elicit a reaction from similarly minded individuals. I apologize for taking the bait, continue with the manufactured discussion…

[edit on 17-12-2007 by WestPoint23]



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by WestPoint23
 


The business of America (us) is business. How do I eat better, live better, by all this crap?



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by WestPoint23
 


Wow.

Relax.

It's a forum. Stimulating conversation and an opportunity to learn.
If I'm ignorant to something, I admit it. I ask questions to cure myself of ignorance.
I'm not an America-hating, ignorant, POS. I love what America is supposed to be.
I'm not a Liberal, or a Conservative.
I'm a person.
I find that, although I learned much more from your post than the original article, I learned all that while listening to you babble on obout how well you seem to know me from a post or two on a forum.
I liked this one:



Nice general display of ignorance and hate thus far, a shining beacon indeed…


Ignorance maybe...but, hate? Hate towards who?
Is it because of my comment the article made? The article that is the topic of the original post?

www.globalresearch.ca...


"I don't want My Lai in Iraq," Duong said. "The biggest difficulty in the global war on terror – just like in Vietnam – is to know who the bad guys are. How do we make sure we don't kill innocents?"
In Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. military units already are operating under loose rules of engagement that allow them to kill individuals who are identified as suspected terrorists or who show the slightest evidence of being insurgents. American forces also have rounded up tens of thousands of Iraqi military-age males, or MAMs, for detention.



I was refering to the article, man, the article. The article says exactly what I was refering to. The facts may be wrong, or exaggerated, but, I didn't write the article, I just brought it here so you'd have some reason to bash posters.





Originally posted by Cuhail
Be it death, torture or freedom for the subject.



Umm… why are you purposely being dishonest, ignorant and provocative? See the above for a rational, non attention seeking, coherent analyses and response.

Dishonest?
Ignorant? YES! Thank you for the post above, it educated me. And lastly, provocotive? Yes, such as your provoking is so different? You recognize it as a user of the skill. Have a blast with that, really.


Enough of you, skippy, back to the topic.

My fear of this is the history of testing tactics and weapons in wartime, on the enemy, and then, to make the most money off of it, they market it to the Police Agencies all across America...my home, in which I love... and use it in the same capacity as the Tazer and the Assault rifle and body armor and night vision and all the rest. There's the application of it that exists in such things as random roadblocks. Face recognition is becoming a norm in stadiums and streetcorners. Can this new device be used in conjunction with that?
Can it be manipulated to display false information? Can it be hacked? Can it be used to apply a red flag on your biometric signature? I'm not evil, but, I recognize the application towards evil.

So, take whatever ya can from the article folks. If it intrigues you, look into other sources for information. Obviously, the article leaves much out.

Cuhail



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 10:07 PM
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So how the American government plans to force the Iraqi population into been tagged and bio metrically been processed like animals?

Will they be rounded up like cattle and put in pens until they submit or be shot at the spot for been possible insurgents and going against the will of the occupation?

This technology wanted or not first have to be accepted willingly by the Iraqi people.

Or I guess that is the least of the problem, after all Saddam was a brutal dictator that was able to have the population do whatever he wanted them to do.

I imagine that the same tactics will be use for the submission of the Iraqis.

Or else. smell like nazi and look like nazi tactics to me.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by marg6043]



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by Oneshot1
Great news and it sounds like a super tool to weed out the muj's and hajis...Yeah WestPoint23 there is a growing "Hate America First Cult" here on ATS and all you can do is shake your head in wonder of WHY they still remain in-Country...



It's not "Hate America First", it's "Take the Log out of your own eye before trying to get the Splinter out of your brothers"

Words straight from our savior.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by Harlequin
been done before - vans driving around killing people based upon the badge they wear - in this case `biometric profiling` is just a new name for an old badge.


Umm… are you also out to post irrational nonsense in order to vent your hatred for a particular country and society via ridicules assertions and information? Must be otherwise why would anyone make such a post, perhaps to use the tired Nazi card in hopes of fueling the crowd into a emotional illogical frenzy in order to dilute the thread with pointless comparisons and statements (like the donor one... *sigh*). While at the same time posting nothing constructive and informative to the actual topic at hand. Once again, I apologize for taking the bait, continue with your agenda at will…



ROFL - `irrational nonsence`


your very first line would make a nazi proud


Originally posted by WestPoint23
The US military utilizes a biometric data system to identify and catalog people in certain fields, situations and settings.



bolded is mine


the nazi`s `identified and catalogued` certain people - they didn`t use the biometric badge - they used a yellow star of david - same thing 70 years apart


please deny ignorance in this matter , this is history repeating itself the US allready has the `report a friend` system (same as the SD) and the Gestapo who entered your home and removed you based upon `inteligence` well - whats the modus operandum for the CIA nowadyas - warrentless wireltapping ,, unconditional detention without legal representaion , secret concentration camps.


[edit on 18/12/07 by Harlequin]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by goosdawg
 


Sigh*

Here is something you should see...



They MURDERED an unarmed trucker after a mortar attack.




They MURDERED a couple of people on the side of the road.



They MURDERED a couple of farmers planting crops in the middle of the road.



They MURDERED a man repairing the road by himself.



They MURDERED 2 men playing hide and seek behind some trees.



They MURDERED a couple of men playing fireworks from the back of their truck.



They MURDERED men running across the field.



They MURDERED a couple of people on the roof who just want to sight see.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 11:11 AM
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O yeah, do you think American troops have the right to kill a person with a cellphone hmmm?????



I mean this guy only has a cellphone in his hand. I see no weapons.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by deltaboy
 


Explain to me how this technology doesn't look like Nazi tactics against the people of a nation that do not fall under US borders.

The last time I check Iraq was a a free nation by US standards.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


How is it Nazi tactics? Is the U.S. govt. looking for Jews to kill? Don't we use similar methods like DNA or fingerprints to find perpetrators like rapists, burglars, etc?
Biometrics is just something new, but you feared it so you call it Nazi cause thats the best way to scare people about this technology. We looking for insurgents, not looking for whos Sunnis or Shiites and kill em.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by deltaboy
 


How do you know that for a fact Delta we have a deceiving government and a deceiving war, how can the Iraqis willingly will give away themselves to be tagged because the occupation on their country say so.

Do you ever, ever stop to think what the Iraqi people really wants or that they are just as human as we American are? or do you like many others only see from one angle.

So when the protest of Iraqi starts about this new invasion on their personal they just will blast them into oblivion with the new voice of god.

Just put two and two together, Iraq is turning into the testing grounds of mad scientist in the name of freedom an american names are attack to it.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


This is about counterinsurgency where we try to distinguish between civilians and combatants. Not about repression as the author mentioned because of some new technology being introduced. Testing ground for mad scientists, I guess every weapon or equipment that is tested should be considered grotesque. Perhaps we should just go back to the old ways where we just arrest all military age men and put em in prison instead of using chemical tests to see if they have explosive residue on their hands or clothing or something. People complain about indiscriminate killing, well this technology and others are meant to remedy that situation. When it comes up, people complain about it, so what do we do then? Go back to the old methods? People going to be pissed anyways.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by deltaboy
 


How can this technology is going to remedy the situation in Iraq and the disrespect to the Iraqi people and their nation.

Delta, when you are going to recognize that we are invading Iraq not the other way around.

Don't you realized that everything is done to the Iraqis it will have repercussion That we Americans will be paying for and our generations to come.

Iraqis are human beings not lab rats.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Of course Iraqis are human beings, hence why we don't send B-52 bombers to bomb every town and village to the ground. You think we treat Iraqis like lab rats, I guess every war we were involved we treat the place or people like a weapons test range.
Think of the U.S. military to build MRAPs to withstand IEDs because they faced a situation that kills American troops. You can all it a mad scientist test lab, I just call it adapting to the situation. Not to mentionat that in every war there is repercussions.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 12:08 PM
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I see all your points here guys.

I see westpoint23's frustration with ignorance of the machine and it's use.
I see deltaboy's reasoning about why is should be used.
I see marg concentrating on it's moral wrongness.

I'm still glad I posted it. It struck me as a good conversational engine and it has run well. It's an interesting machine. Regardless of what it's being used for, it's just that if the Military is using it now, and technology is 10-20 years ahead of the Military and therefore, this new technology has already been surpassed. I'd assume. Where do you think we really are, technology-wise, if this device is State-of-the-Art?

Cuhail



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
As scary as the thought of a mobile biometric testing lab may be what I find even more alarming is how plainly they mention "shooting him on the spot". Since when was America known for summary executions? Perhaps I was wrong but I had always thought that one of the greatest parts of living in America was the right to a trial before imprisonment or execution. Does this mean they now have lists of people who are to be shot on site?


Since went did a news article dictate the policy for America’s rules of engagement? So many of you bite off on these little snippets as if they were a fresh worm on a big fat hook. Just remember anything can be spun in any direction.



The tighter we squeeze this iron fist of the War on Terror the more young disenfranchised muslim youths will seek to retaliate against Coalition forces. Many on these forums have voiced the fact that they would fight the government given certain situations and I fail to see how this is any different.


Well we are not squeezing anything. And something like this along with many other high tech devices are actually limiting collateral damage AND preventing deadly mistakes.

What other country on earth invests the majority of the Billions that it puts towards weapons research into precision engagement?

As example, if there is a large apartment building with a group of really bad guys in one of the apartments and we do not know which one we could do it the Russian way and just blow up the building, or we can do it the American way through high tech and locate the right apartment and kill everyone in it while the baby in the next apartment stays unhurt.

You are right in that everyone we kill or hurt that is a victim is propaganda fodder, and there is not a country on this planet that goes to the lengths that we do to try and prevent that. Propaganda fodder is just a small part for we also value the life of a single human being where a large part of the world view the value of life only in the 1000s or more.

If we didn’t value life then there would be no need to try and discriminate the bad people from the innocent and equipment like in the Op’s article would be useless junk instead of a valuable tool to.



If a foreign force invaded and occupied American soil I would hope that many would rise and fight for our freedom.


I'm not sure where you are from, but you talk like your from America, and if you are this quote above is rather strange in the way that you have very little understanding what is going over there.

We are not fighting the Iraqis and so they do not need to fight for their freedom. Once they can stand on their own two feet we are more than eager to leave. The greatest failure of the short war in 2003 was not foreseeing five years or more of us stuck in that hellhole. We made the mess by removing a brutal dictator and so we are stuck with that mess to the bitter end.

The good news is we finally see a light up ahead. The Iraqis are finally working towards unification of their country and not the bitter secular war that has been on the forefront these past four years. What made this situation even worst was some factions aligned themselves with Al-Qaida to gain power. This has been a big turning point this last year in those who were once aligned with Al-Qaida are now against them. With all these new developments our footprint will continue to get smaller as we can finally turn over all of the citys' entire security functions to capable and non-secular Iraqis forces.



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