Native America slant on Alien's 2012 & Origin

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posted on Dec, 16 2007 @ 07:56 AM
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I've been reading a lot of the post for a while...you know getting a feel for the group before I open my mouth and say something stupid...

Anyway I thought I'd bring up that Many Native America people are taught in our old stories all about aliens, where humans came from and naturally we have our end of days stories...

I'm not really the person to teach you all about the old ways but many of the posts here remind me of stories my grandfather told me as a child..

so to start first the stories all tell Humans didn't come from this world. Depending on the tribe you cite this can be the third world or as many as the seventh world we've come from...all the stories talk about death doom and destruction on the old worlds then threw heroic acts we were brought here to this world...

some think that maybe the first human alien contact was with a being called Kokopilli see Original Petroglyph and ReproductionsAKA the flute player or hunchback...legend says when humans first came here Kokopilli taught people how to survive, what to hunt and what to grow. Later he became a trader and travel between villages to check up on them...

Now I cant speak for all tribes but both the Apache and Dine (Navajo), I believe the Lakota people do as well, speak of star tribes...outer space Tribes. Part of the Hopi Prophesy talks about the sign of the end of days is when the blue star dancer dances in the plaza...this is supposed to mean the end of this world and he will take one man and one woman along to the next world...Yes I realize this kind of sounds like Adam and Eve but trust me this Hopi Prophesy predates Christianity. I'll see if I can call up a google vid on the Hopi Prophesy for you all if intrested in that sort of thing. anyway the old people all used to agree that in the old days it was quite common for the star tribes to visit trade and teach. that all ended after some war they had...that part gets confusing because no one know what that war was about or who one. just that the star tribes stopped coming

moving on to 2012 well that's hard to say...see when the Spanish first met the Mayans they brought whit them their priest's. the first thing they did was try to convert the natives...they held a sword over their heads and asked do you believe in our god? if you said yes they let you go in no? off came your head...so Mayans, the survivors anyway quickly converted and the church went about burning all the texts, all but three...What little we do know about them comes from those three texts and its not much...

TO north American Tribe we too have our end of days stories the ones I grew up hearing were not like the Hopi's rather the there are seven chosen tribes and they guard seven gates if you will. the gates lead to the underworld. not hell but the route from the old world and maybe a route to the next...if that story were to come to pass all I can say is I hope I'm long dead. I'm too old now to fight what are said to be terrible creatures then settle on a new world with nothing but what's on our backs.

in closing all I can say is we Natives are just as confused as to the meaning of live the universe and what will happen to us... as any of you...the real difference is we have a different set of building blocks to stand on when we ask our questions.
If any are intrested in reading some of the old stories I will include a couple of links all I ask is you respect the authors and our belief's
Link to General stories
Link to Rustywires Dine stories
Hope you enjoy them


Couldnt make the vid play so just click the link to visit google vidHopi Prophesy vid 31min 51 sec



[edit on 16-12-2007 by DaddyBare]

[edit on 16-12-2007 by DaddyBare]




posted on Dec, 16 2007 @ 10:18 AM
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...thanks for sharing your 'stories' & thoughts here. Very interesting, I'll check the links.. .



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


thanks for sharing your stories DB. i really enjoy hearing things from a native perspective. i have been living in new mexico for about seven years now and have loved getting to know the cultures. happy to read your post and thanks for the links.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


Very good links OP. A good post. In the hurry of this time, it is good to remember that it hasn't always been so, that once there was enough time to be whatever was in one's heart. Maybe it will be so again.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 06:06 PM
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Thanks for the insight DaddyBare... The problem with the native American stories is they are all verbal and must be taken with a grain of salt, changes are made with the telling and time. The stories I have heard first hand are a mixture of fact and fiction, and historical accounts have to be taken on a case to case basis, many writers of the time had no clue and went with second and third hand accounts for their writing/painting...



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by Oneshot1
Thanks for the insight DaddyBare... The problem with the native American stories is they are all verbal and must be taken with a grain of salt,

As I said I am not the best person to share these stories and I'll explain why... your right in that Natives have an oral history...but a real story teller spends their life with masters of the old lore reciting it over and over again until word for word its perfect... I'm not saying the stories havent changed with there telling...certainly our frames of reference has... Place names change whole peoples come and go, come again then vanish, but the words remain...

In both mine and another post here we point out the "The Blue Star Dancer" part of Hopi legend. To be sure when that phrase was written it was as crystal clear to them as if I said "Computer hacker" to you...would your grand father know the meaning of computer hacker? your great grand father? Our combined frame of reference gives hacker meaning...this meaning problem works both ways that's why we use petroglyphs as memory joggers...

if that makes sense to you well then I'll be so happy I'll have to dance me a little jig, Okey-Dokey Smokey? ...Oh wait you'd have to be an old guy like me for that phrase to have any meaning too???

[edit on 17-12-2007 by DaddyBare]



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
In both mine and another post here we point out the "The Blue Star Dancer" part of Hopi legend. To be sure when that phrase was written it was as crystal clear to them as if I said "Computer hacker" to you...would your grand father know the meaning of computer hacker? your great grand father? Our combined frame of reference gives hacker meaning...this meaning problem works both ways that's why we use petroglyphs as memory joggers...
me for that phrase to have any meaning too???


DB, can you please spell for us in your Native language the original name of the Blue Star Dancer as spoken in your native tongue?
A petroglyph perhaps?

I'm wondering if different combinations of the three words may yield different translations.

Do any of these words have a different meaning when used individually?

In other words are there any other words that can be substituted for blue, star(s) or dancer?
Is blue a color for royalty? Blue blood perhaps?
Is there a certain dance that would make the stars dance as well?

I know a lot of words can change over time and so can their meaning and I'm wondering if there are any clues that might shed light as to what might be meant by this phrase.

Also, is this the original translation that pre dates the arrival of the Illumi-Euro-Spans or is the word "Blue" something they interjected.

Appreciate your info.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 05:42 AM
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DB, can you please spell for us in your Native language the original name of the Blue Star Dancer as spoken in your native tongue?
A petroglyph perhaps?


Saquasohuh (Blue Star) Sirius is Blue Star Kachina (Dancer)


the part of the Prophecy everyone talks about, reads
"When the Blue Star Kachina makes its appearance in the heavens, the Fifth World will emerge". This will be the Day of Purification. It will come when the Saquasohuh (Blue Star) Kachina dances in the plaza and removes his mask".

its not the word Saquasohuh that throws people...the blue start Sirius... its the word "Kachina" if you Google the film "The Mystery of Chaco Canyon" please watch it. give great insight into how much our elders knew about the stars... also see Lunar Markings on Fajada Butte

Now the word Kachina is one that requires a cultural referance. if you Google Kachina you'll find a plethera of odd looking Native American dolls. the dolls in themselves are not Kachina's but doll's of human dancers dressed as Kachina...

You might have seen in passing Native dances where the dancers dress in costume and wear masks, these are kachinas and are supernatural beings who represent and have charge over various aspects of the natural world. They might be thought of as analogous to Greco-Roman demi-gods or Catholic saints. There are literally hundreds of different Kachinas, which may represent anything from rain to watermelon, various animals, stars, and even other Indian tribes. However, the kachinas are also thought to be the spirits of dead ancestors and combined with the drumming and song that always go along with the dance tells the story of the Kachina. Before a dance is held a little prayer is said, asking for the ancestors and spirits to join and watch the dance. many dancers report falling into a trance like state where the spirit of the Kachina takes over...

Now please remember I'm no expert on Hopi prophecy But I can say Prophecy Rock is not the original source but the Fire Clan Tablets that the tribe carries is...if you really want to learn more about the prophecy then your search should start with those tablets and Musawa, he is said to have given the tablets to the ancient ones... so there are your key words
"Fire Clan Tablets" and "Musawa" good hunting
a link to speed your search

[edit on 18-12-2007 by DaddyBare]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:47 AM
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I am Native American. I have sat at elders feet and listened to the stories. The "stories" of this type are fakes and frauds, told by people who have an agenda, to get paid and look "good".



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by Oneshot1
I am Native American. I have sat at elders feet and listened to the stories. The "stories" of this type are fakes and frauds, told by people who have an agenda, to get paid and look "good".

would you rather I share the story of Geronimo?

In 1918, certain remains of Geronimo were stolen in a grave robbery. Three members of the Yale secret society of Skull and Bones served as Army volunteers at Fort Sill during World War I; one of those three members was Prescott Bush, father of the forty-first President of the United States George H. W. Bush and grandfather of George W. Bush. They reportedly stole Geronimo's skull, some bones, and other items, including Geronimo's prized silver bridle, from the Apache Indian Prisoner of War Cemetery. The stolen items were alleged to have been taken to the society's tomb-like headquarters on the Yale University campus, and are supposedly used in rituals practiced by the group, one of which is said to be kissing the skull of Geronimo as an initiation.

now how that for a red skin tail?



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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DaddyBare, I'm not speaking on the traditional stories which use facts and some made up "facts" to make the point of the story. I'm questioning the motives of the folk's who make these "stories" up and call them "old". I have heard of the Geronimo skull also, is it true??? No idea, but if it is I'm sure that someone over the years would have caused a stink over it and caused bad press and return of said bones/relics.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by Oneshot1
 


The White Mountain Apache Tribe did sue Yale and recovered several boxes of artafacts and human remains, however nothing was marked so no one knows if his skull was returned or not...



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Oneshot1
DaddyBare, I'm not speaking on the traditional stories which use facts and some made up "facts" to make the point of the story. I'm questioning the motives of the folk's who make these "stories" up and call them "old". I have heard of the Geronimo skull also, is it true??? No idea, but if it is I'm sure that someone over the years would have caused a stink over it and caused bad press and return of said bones/relics.


Why would it matter if someone believed this story regardless if it was fake or not? Is it because you think someones doing it to make money? Well do you get pissed at Marvel comics or MGM for producing fake stories to make money? So what if i may be fake its a cool story.


[edit on 18-12-2007 by Shawn B.]



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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My personal Opinion

The star tribes never came and visited us up here in the north, we have alot of stories about spirits and little people and what not but never heard any old stories about alien beings or tribes from the stars.

But hey maybe those Aliens just don't like the semi cold, or maybe they liked you guys better whatever.

But true or a load of huey those stories are cool to read and probably cooler to listen to.



posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Miishgoos
 


"up here" as in where? i ask out of general interest in the natives here in the americas. thanks for your post and thanks for your anwser.




posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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Thanks for the insightful thread DB. I am a resident of the Dakotas. I have Oglala, Lakota, Dakota friends, some of which take their heritage very seriously and literally. I have met medicine men and decorated tribal braves. Your people, regardless of tribal assocciation, should be proud and follow through with the old ways, no matter how many times the story was told, it all has significance when most needed thing's are meant to be heard.

One of the book's I have read and thoroughly enjoyed was Black Elk Speaks: Being the Life Story of a Holy Man of the Oglala Sioux

For anyone that wants to here it from a wichasha wakon or "Holy Man" this book is free online and can be found here.

Source to read Black Elks Book, basically a biography of his abilities of his people and faiths:

books.google.com...

Once again DB, "Great thread with absolute honesty and respect for all comer's that wish to understand that no one has the answers for it all."

Ciaos!!



posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 12:42 AM
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Could the Fifth World be the coming of a New Era like the Age of Aquarius?

Interesting reading regarding the Fifth World, Age of Aquarius, Quetzlcoatl, 2012 and the return of the Serpents of Wisdom

DB, what can you tell us about the Ant People?



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare the ones I grew up hearing, there are seven chosen tribes and they guard seven gates if you will. the gates lead to the underworld . not hell but the route from the old world and maybe a route to the next...if that story were to come to pass all I can say is I hope I'm long dead. I'm too old now to fight what are said to be terrible creatures then settle on a new world with nothing but what's on our backs.


Talking about the gates and the underworld makes me think of Undo's Stargate thread. Underworld = Abyss = Abzu / Apsu in ancient texts. To summarize his 70+ pages, when ancient texts talk about the underworld or traveling to the underworld they actually travel down to the stargate and the stargate leads to a planet around a star somewhere. With other word they go down in order to go up into the sky, and this has had many translators (and readers of course) confused. (Going down here does not mean under the ground. It's more like people usually say when going somewhere; I'm going down to the library today, down to the city and the like.) The father tribe of the hopi (don't remember the name, only that it has A and Z in its name) say they came from the underworld wich I take to mean they come out of a stargate. How else could they come from another world up from the caves they claim the underworld/stargate is?

A short quote; "All of these "subterranean chambers" are not only related to Enki's Abzu stargate but to the "bottomless pit" in the book of Revelation in the bible. ( Revelation 9 ) which is derived from the word "Abyss", which is derived from the word Abzu or Apsu. When Enki's "ziggurat" first came here, it emerged from the abyss, the underworld called the Abzu or Apsu, and landed in what was to become Sumer. He and his compadres then set about building ancient Sumer."

Read the rest at www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway, any planets the seven stargates lead to are already populated by someone. Someone build and put the gates there after all...


[edit on 29-12-2007 by Ghaele]



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


Hey, I'm two years late in seeing this but if you're still around, thank you.

I find this interesting and am going to check out these links!



posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
...see when the Spanish first met the Mayans they brought whit them their priest's. the first thing they did was try to convert the natives...they held a sword over their heads and asked do you believe in our god? if you said yes they let you go in no? off came your head...so Mayans, the survivors anyway quickly converted and the church went about burning all the texts, all but three...What little we do know about them comes from those three texts and its not much...



And look how the religious dominionist movement has thrived since then!

I think the end will be very much like what you have described here. We are still engaged in a spiritual battle of religious dominionism. And those who are speaking out against those tyrants will be killed. And the followers of those wolves who claim to speak on behalf of god, (and who secretly employ a private militia) will simply believe that the "invisible hand of god" has slain the opposers.

The more things change, the more they are still the same.





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