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Religious Extremists Taking Over ATS?

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posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Occam
Re: the question about whether any of the moderators are atheists or agnostics. One has to consider the orientation of ATS. The conspiracy theory mindset and the atheist or agnostic mindset are usually not compatible.


I'm not following your logic here. Why is the "conspiracy mindset" and "atheist mindset" not compatible? I see just the opposite. A conspiracy mindset is one of being untrusting of powerful organizations. The major religions are powerful organizations. I would say the conspiratorial mind would see religion as something designed to control the population even though Christianity actually frees it's followers.



Originally posted by Occam
So, I would doubt that an atheist or agnostic would be welcomed as a moderator.

Occam


There are far more agnostic and atheist staff members than all other groups though we are still a diverse group. We have several Christian, Jewish, wiccan and pagan followers in our 50+ member ranks though as I said the atheist/agnostic group is larger. ATS does not choose staff members based on religious lines. We are a sampling of the entire cross section of the membership. Remember we are and were regular members before we became staff. We were chosen based on attitudes, character, personality and intelligence to name a few important traits. How I was still picked considering my low intelligence is beyond me.




[edit on 12/21/2007 by kinglizard]




posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 10:08 AM
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I don't think there are very many religious extremists on this site. More so, there are more atheist fundamentalists and aggressive agnostics trying to prove and disprove more things related to religions, related to God, in many threads, some of their own, and some made by people like myself, to have some intelligent debate.

I enjoy the intelligent debate, because you keep each other on their toes, you keep the information fresh and relevant, and sharpens the skills of us who like to debate sometimes. Then, those who excel on certain topics over time can hone their skills and step up to the debate challenges that members have where the winner is voted on. I'd like to participate in a religious debate on such a challenge. I also wanted to be on the ATS Mix Show you guys (ATS staff) scrapped which was going to be about religion, or monotheism, or more specifically Christianity.

The way I see it is simple. We are a minority here, and people don't like us on principle, just like they didn't like us in Jesus' day. Sometimes when they allow us to explain what we know, the history, and why things are as they are, they start to understand, those who are against us become neutral to us, or even positive with us. I try to reach across the spectrum as much as possible.

Like Paul, (damn am I comparing myself to PAUL? Paul is dead, Paul is dead, Paul is dead! Dont forget to vote for Ron Paul?) I originally found myself amongst sinners, evil, and misguided men. This evil tried to suck me in as well, to make me like these other, self-destructive people whom have submitted to Satan. But I realized it was all on purpose, I was placed there to experience what I learned, or rather, by taking that path on my own choice, I learned all these lessons. Had I taken another path, the lessons may have been different in substance but the same in meaning.

So anyway, I went into the flock of the lost, got lost for a little while, realized how lost I was which meant everyone around me was even MORE lost, because here I was still hanging onto the edge of the cliff ledge trying not to fall into the abyss, trying to pull myself up against all. And i still try to pull myself higher up. But now I feel that my task is to seek out Believers of God.

My Job is not of the Catholic Church, nor the Orthodox, nor any particular denomination. Being that I adhere to Arian Christian philosophy, I don't think they are correct in their approach to the faith. This puts me in a maverick position, a heretical one of sorts (to them), though I know truly I am not heretic. Though, through this I can communicate across the lines with those of other Religions and Philosophies, even Atheist Fundamentalists, or some.

And that is the idea. Today is the decline of the mind of mankind and the shift of paradigm into the technological oddities. As each culture became less spiritualistic and more materialistc, they fell and their thoughts drifted.



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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I don't really think there's such a thing as an 'atheist fundamentalist'.

What are the fundamentals that must be adhered to? There is no book that must be taken literally, behaviours that are required, or rejection of contradictory evidence. I also don't think that atheists are generally intolerant of people of faith.

Atheism is just about the lack of theistic belief. One position, and that is all. Other than that, there are no fundamentals to be held. Just the same that people who hold a theistic position are not by defintion 'fundamentalists'.

You could say some are aggressive and, perhaps, 'militant'. But that's not really the same thing as some dude believing that holy books are the infallible and literal word of god and therefore x, y, and z, even though the real-world shows a, b, and c, but if you don't agree with x, y, and z, you are a heretic and will be punished eternally. That they are the one True form of religion, all other being tainted.

Fundamentalists generally play the Truth (TM) card, showing no uncertainity at all in their position, they have the eternal absolute Truth (TM) all ready-made in a little book.

Atheists tend to be open to new evidence, as they base their worldviews on real-world reasoning. I don't see this in fundamentalists.

[edit on 21-12-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 12:51 AM
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Quote from Kinglizard:

There are far more agnostic and atheist staff members than all other groups though we are still a diverse group. We have several Christian, Jewish, wiccan and pagan followers in our 50+ member ranks though as I said the atheist/agnostic group is larger. ATS does not choose staff members based on religious lines. We are a sampling of the entire cross section of the membership. Remember we are and were regular members before we became staff. We were chosen based on attitudes, character, personality and intelligence to name a few important traits. How I was still picked considering my low intelligence is beyond me.


Sorry, you can claim that, but I'm not able to take such things on faith when the only posts in the religion forum I've seen by moderators has demonstrated that they are quite strongly theistic.

As you may have seen, social psychology research has demonstrated that any self-selecting group tends to become more uniform over time. I would guess that the non-conforming moderators leave, and are replaced with ones who think like the remaining members. As such, I predict that the pool of moderators is becoming more and more strongly Christian.

Occam



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


ooo, a fellow atheist that follows buddhism, here i thought i was the only one...

 


KL, i call shenanigans, please show me evidence that we have more atheist/agnostic staff members



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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Runetang,


I don't think there are very many religious extremists on this site. More so, there are more atheist fundamentalists and aggressive agnostics trying to prove and disprove more things related to religions, related to God, in many threads, some of their own, and some made by people like myself, to have some intelligent debate.


I like the way you think.

I have judged and measured that though there are many moderate "athiests" on here there are also very vocal/zealous ones too.

I have come to the conclusion that by their very zeal these very vocal athiest are in fact a religion. Just like the Pharisees in the Olde and New Testament. I think that some here are refering to them as fundamentalist athiests. Ironic to me.

In the same vein I have also concluded that Politics is in fact a religion by the same fingerprint of Zeal. Also by the fact that it is obvious to me that much of politics is hidden..occult in its true nature from those it intends to govern. In the same awareness I have fostered the question or concept of who governs politics??? It is not the public...obviously.

I like Ron Paul too...as measured by the knowlege that most politicians and the body politic does not like him ...and is trying so obviously to discredit him. In line with the concept of discrediting, I have become acutely aware of how the media is like the pharisees shilling for this whorish political system as they are part of the process of discrediting Ron Paul. This speaks volumes to me as to the likeness or simlitude of both partys in the so called "two party system". These two partys are not different to me...they are the same. And they are against the general public intrest.



The very word..Athiest...translates to my knowlege..

A-without Theos-God

Without God.

This does not tell me that Athiesm is not a religion. IT just means to me that it is without the religion or theology of the God of the Bible.
All I have to do is read the posts and know some other factors...to think it through. It becomes obvious.

I like intelligent debate too. I too find so little of it in many of the fundamental Athiest positions. I do however ..also find religion in many of the more zealous athiest posts. However, also I often find it lacking (intelligent debate) in many of the Christian posts.

Thanks Runetang for your posts. I like your logic and reason...the way you think.


Occam,


As you may have seen, social psychology research has demonstrated that any self-selecting group tends to become more uniform over time.


This as a pattern is probably true.


I would guess that the non-conforming moderators leave, and are replaced with ones who think like the remaining members. As such, I predict that the pool of moderators is becoming more and more strongly Christian.


This ,however, is a stretch. It looks good and solid as logic and reason. It just fall short to those who can think and think further than a sound bite.

What you claim as uniformity is probably true and in organized structures it is a result of leadership....not necessarily Christianity.

It is obvious to me that ATS/BTS has had problems in the past with wildlife causing disruptions on thier boards. Taking over so to speak and spreading chaos. To control this tendency of "Chaos" has required strong leadership....and hence uniformity. I dont blame them one bit for this because if left unchecked these boards will debase to chaos as is occuring on many of the chat rooms on line.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 24-12-2007 by orangetom1999]

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fixed BB Code

[edit on 24/12/07 by masqua]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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Quote from Occam:

I would guess that the non-conforming moderators leave, and are replaced with ones who think like the remaining members. As such, I predict that the pool of moderators is becoming more and more strongly Christian.


Quote from Orangetom:

This ,however, is a stretch. It looks good and solid as logic and reason. It just fall short to those who can think and think further than a sound bite.

What you claim as uniformity is probably true and in organized structures it is a result of leadership....not necessarily Christianity.


I didn't claim that it was - a result . . . (of) Christianity. Rather that new moderators are usually chosen to match the ideas of the present moderators. Since it appears to me that the present moderators are predominantly strong christians, I suggest that it's likely that the new moderators will have similar views.


It is obvious to me that ATS/BTS has had problems in the past with wildlife causing disruptions on thier boards. . . To control this tendency of "Chaos" has required strong leadership....and hence uniformity.

Your statement doesn't disagree with my original contention. I'm not claiming that christians do this any more than others, just that, for whatever reason, when new moderators are chosen they will be like present moderators. And the present moderators I'm aware of seem to be predominantly strong christian.

Occam



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 10:36 AM
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Without knowing whether the premise that most mods are Xians is correct, I do agree with Occam that there does seem to be a bit of a double standard on the board as regards atheists and their posts, and it also seems that Xians get preferential treatment.

Without going into the specifics, I have had personal experiences with being on the wrong end of the preferential treatment. I have been privately "talked to" about "derailing" theistic threads, which never seems to happen when a theist derails a thread with proselytizing.

I personally think that this goes against the stated intent of ATS, "Deny Ignorance." When I try to do so, attempts are made to curb and/or gag me.

Not often, but often enough.

What is that all about, anyway? Either nonbelievers should be as free to speak as theists are on ANY subject at ANY time, or theists should have to curb themselves when their dogma creeps into a discussion it is not welcome in.

Just my two cents.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


your two cents always go further than a fool's fortune, MM.

of all the threads on here, i've yet to see you really derail a thread, though you have brought up small points that others then focus upon and then the thread does end up getting derailed...
anyway, i'm just saying that i totally agree with you here. i cannot understand this preferential treatment



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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Whatever the bias or double standard is... don't let it get to you eh? There are bigger things to be concerned with. That's how I see it at least. Peace.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:09 PM
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Evidently INHERENTLY a Biblical topic

EQUALS

PURELY Biblical to you.

I didn't realize your dictionary was so . . . rubbery.

If it's that easy for you to distort my simple words so wholesale . . . I can understand a bit better how it's such a chronic problem to distort whole paragraphs Christians write into whatever suits your mood at the time.

But that's not rational, healthy dialogue, TO ME.

INHERENTLY BIBLICAL means, to me, that the topic has built-in aspects that are part and parcel of the Biblical world view/cosmology.

You may not like that. You may want to pack that away in a tiny little box with all the Christians holding that view . . . but I don't consider such proclivities to be very . . . enlightened.

or even very aware.


Originally posted by jimbo999

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by jimbo999
 


For those of us who are authentic CHristians and well informed on the topics . . . e.g. UFO's our perspective, world view/Christianity is thoroughly involved in the topic. It is INHERENTLY A SPIRITUAL TOPIC.

Ditto conspiracy stuff . . . END OF THE WORLD STUFF IS INHERENTLY A BIBLICAL TOPIC.

. . .

It's cute that Christians are asked to shed their Christianity when writing on virtally any thread.

Atheists are NOT asked to shed their atheist world view, perspective, etc.

Muslims are not asked to shed their world view, perspective, etc.

. . .

Sheesh. What an outrageous double standard. What a stacked deck. What a pile of cow pies.


[edit on 17/12/2007 by BO XIAN]


The 'end of the world' is purely Biblical? News to me. You need to read outside of the biblical-box.
J.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I am an atheist, how can I hate something I dont believe in?

Devil? Again how can the devil make me do it when I dont believe he/ she is real?

Rational answers wanted


1. It does seem rather like an obtuse exercise in silly futility IF one is REALLY 100% convinced of that perspective. And, many times . . . it seems clearly that . . . Brutus, though protesteth too much. It often appears that the "atheist" is not near as convinced as he tries to convinced us that he's convinced.

2. One can hate a symbol, archetype, label, image, construct just as one can hate a long list of objects, intangibles etc. There are usually a set of negative experiences associated with said symbol, archetype, label, image, construct, food . . . one doesn't exactly come out of the womb hating specific archetypes, constructs--real or imagined.

3. In my experience, it is usually very flawed Christiand and worse very flawed virtually or really abusive "Christian" organizations which seem to trigger the most "God hatred."

4. But, I think the anger, bitterness and resentment are at the root, much more associated with people doing stupid horrible things supposedly in the Name of God . . . than it is anything God has done directly to the "God haters."

5. In terms of the devil making on do something . . . I think wholesale bondage to that level of control takes time . . . fierce years long anger CAN result in such. Deliberate devil worship can result in such.s

6. But so can wallowing in, swimming in, devouring, relishing in a lot of sick sex, general &/or specific deep rooted, intense hatred, obsessive bitterness and resentment and/or other very evil activities regardless of whether one believes in satan or not. Demonic forces incrementally increase their coerciveness, seductiveness until the will of the individual is wholesale compromised--doesn't matter if the victim believes in the devil, or not.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by jimbo999
 


It sounds like your understanding is lop-sided and/or inadequately informed.

A goodly percentage of the Founding Athers had an authentic, earnest Christian relationship with Almighty God.

Are you denying that many groups came to this land initially to be free to worship the CHRISTIAN ALMIGHTY GOD in freedom and peace?



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
Hmmm...I think we're already seeing it unforuantely. Apparently you're 'Un-American' now if you question a chritian's beliefs....unreal, huh?
J.


Hmmmmm . . . .

Is that the other side of the coin . . .

that Christians are ignorant, uneducated, stupid, narrow minded, rigid, clueless, unscientific, have low IQ . . .

BECAUSE they believe in God or The Bible?

That sword slices both ways Sherlock.

I assume you are aware of that.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
... but if we have atheist mods, they don't seem to make it a point to reveal that.


I think the atheist mods are stealth destroyers.

I have persaonally witnessed more than a time or 3 atheist mods exercising somewhat arbitrary, hostile and punative actions against Christian posters evidently primarily because of the Christian's beliefs.

There may have been some SLIGHT excuse--though NOT always--for taking some punative action. But the real reason was the poster's beliefs.

I could refer to a U2U with some high authority . . . but will only note . . .

Volunteer staff are not exactly easy to come by. THey don't grow on trees. So, sometimes even fairly egregious excesses on the part of some mods may only get a slight slap on the wrist. Though I think one incident did get a stronger response.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
that there does seem to be a bit of a double standard on the board as regards atheists and their posts, and it also seems that Xians get preferential treatment.

Without going into the specifics, I have had personal experiences with being on the wrong end of the preferential treatment. I have been privately "talked to" about "derailing" theistic threads, which never seems to happen when a theist derails a thread with proselytizing.


.


Fascinating.

It is clear that Kinglizard is correct. he atheists and agnostics significantly outnumber the Christians amongst the mods.

And, I have observed as well as experienced REPEATEDLY--virtually routinely, wholesale punative bias on the part of atheistic mods against Christian posters and posts. s

It has routinely been so bad off and on that I have repeatedly taken long absenses from ATS because it was so brazen, disgusting and essentially unassailable.

Very often it's somewhat benign--there's typically a lone Christian poster or at most 2-3 cohorts from Christianity. s

And the pile-on begins with 6-20 hostile-to-Christianity posters piliing on the personal insults as well as derisive things barely within the rules.

Very often the atheistic mods will wink and nod or slightly slap insults to the Christian posers' person while 'AMENing' the dersive posts barely within or not quite within the rules.

But let the Christian poster even seem to get too close to the line and the harsh slapdown descends.

I've seen such too numerous to count.

I don't know why the sociological makeup of ATS is such but it clearly is. It was no surprise to me when Kinglizard confirmed that most mods are agnostic/atheist.

It may be that because the forum began in the UK and has a strong Aussie contengency. Both countries are much more Post-Christian than Christian--particularly in most major metro areas . . . and the sociological mix sort of grew out of that mileu.

I just know that the double-standard AGAINST Christians and Christian posts has been routine, thick, brazen, obvious, obnoxious, often insufferable . . . and that mostly . . . nothing can or nothing will be done about it.

Once I was going to take some representative threads and do a sociological type study on various phrases etc. used by mods and the bulk of the posters vs similar phrases used by Christians to prove my point. But, I have higher priorities for my time.

But, that's somewhat tolerable. The NWO order will make more and more of the world the same way. So, this is good training for Christians to learn to cope with it.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Don't worry about it Bo! Doesn't it say we will be hated [read: made fun of, persecuted, disliked] for His name's sake? The facts of physics testify to His existence while the theory of evolution doesn't have a single leg to stand on (as it is easily canceled out by the second law of thermodynamics). Facts verses theories wherein theories are always proven obsolete when faced against the facts.

Isn't everything He said would happen coming to pass? The European Union (Revived Roman Empire), the Muslim Coalition (we're just waiting for Turkey to join and thus will begin the war of Ezekiel 38), the rebuilding of Babylon (as started by Saddam and being completed by others), moral decline that coincided with the rebirth of Israel, Israel becoming a nation again in one day as prophesied to the exact year (which was indeed fulfilled on May 15 1948), Jerusalem being controlled again by Israel while the temple is trampled by others (fulfilled to the letter), paradigm religious shifts and apostasy, the explosion of knowledge and technology, etc. etc.

Not to mention the scientific foreknowledge in the Bible regarding science, medicine, physiology, and germs.

Then of course expositional references. Some call me a believer but I call myself a skeptic. Why? Because I cannot possibly believe this is all coincidental. They say atheism, evolution, multiple gods, etc. I say I can't possibly believe that. Therefore, we're actually skeptics because we do not accept what they teach. I can't possibly believe the use of numbers throughout the Bible (written by dozens of others over the span of centuries) all knew about the numerical representation. I might be able to believe one man was genius enough to create this system but not multiple men all in unison without knowing.

Keep on going with God, Bo. There is simply too much reason to believe what we do. We would be foolish to not believe so in spite of scientific and theological evidence. Don't worry about what others think or how they treat you. Just keeping on doing what you do. No one else's opinion or treatment of us is as important as knowing that we know the truth and that we are on the side of the One who sees all.

[edit on 12/28/2007 by AshleyD]



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


see, this is off topic, entirely. but if an atheist posted something this off topic in a thread relating to someone's personal faith, boom, warn.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


You need to go take more science classes. The second law of thermodynamics most certainly does not cancel out evolution.

All scientific laws are called theories. If you are saying evolution doesn't exist because it's a "theory" you don't know what you're talking about, and therefore your post can be safely dismissed.

Your body runs on cell theory. I guess it doesn't exist either.

Your computer runs on electrical theory and computer theory. Better get rid of it.

Your body sticks to the earth because of gravitational theory. See you in orbit.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 01:31 PM
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This video, should any of you theists choose to watch it and actually understand it, ought to put a stop to the dismissal of science. That is, if you used your reason.



I dare you. Watch it with an open mind, if you are able.




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