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I challenge NIST Answers to FAQ - Supplement (December 14, 2007)

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posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 03:08 PM
reply to post by BlueRaja

I only ask you to provide us with a solid explanation of that huge energy source that caused the seismographs at LDEO to write the tallest peaks seconds before they started to write the following, smaller global collapse peaks.

No negatives, no positives there, just a simple explanation where that energy could have been coming from, shown there, that was bigger than the following energy of a 47 story building collapsing in total, to ground level.

And if you can't come up with that, it really becomes time to re-evaluate your opinion on the events of 9/11.

posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 03:25 PM

Originally posted by LaBTop
Mirageofdeceit, it is a shame that anybody still does want to bring up the diesel card as a trump-card in any 9/11 argument.

As you know, even NIST does not really hang to that theory anymore, but they seem to be pressed by the NIST director to keep repeating a few vague sentences about diesel, to keep the fate of the masses, still believing the big lies hidden behind a wealth of good and solid research by many NIST scientists, upright.

I have to say that I'm not familiar with the details of WTC7, except as far as structural damage to the building, and the news reports of it having collapsed before the fact, although I was aware of the diesel storage and sub-station there.

The problem people have with the seismic data is:

1) it is scientifically recorded

2) Some people won't understand its significance, and of those that do, some won't want to hear what it says as it is proof beyond all doubt. You couldn't make that stuff up.

The directors of NIST....
Look into them, how they were exchanged from free thinkers to political appointed parrots of the party lines and corporate America.

Thanks to Griff for posting what he did. That is another nail in the coffin for impartiality of NIST.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 04:03 PM
reply to post by mirageofdeceit

I'm not sure what Diesel has to do with anything, as jets use JP5 or JP8. I know for a fact that those fuels burn just fine in the open air, as I lost a number of friends in a plane crash, and many others were burned badly.

posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 04:14 PM
It is in the context of WTC7, not WTC1 or 2.

My condolences for your loss.

posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 12:00 AM
I think it's wise to take the time now, to (re)read my thread about thermobaric devices :

especially with the information about this huge energy pulse in mind, which we can find pictured in all 3 collapse seismograms as pre-collapse peaks, which coincidentally have all 3 the same amplitude, for all 3 towers.

It's interesting to observe, how the tag-function on this board can be mis-used, if you look at the only tag description for my thread there.

posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 02:34 AM
And then observe the overlaying of the two 3D seismic fingerprint graphs of the collapses of the South and North Towers by LCSN at Palisades LDEO seismic station in NY State, done by Rick Siegel or the Blue Media Group publishers of the 9/11Eyewitness video :

Google Video Link

Source :

They conclude that the identical sharp peaks placements in the two graphs indicate the use of HE, High Explosives, at the initiation of the collapses.

Watch this video where you can see the ring of demolition charges going off, one by one.
(This is a different one than the other one I posted, it's bigger)
Source :
Damning WTC demolition charges exposed.

posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 05:53 PM
I'll ask here to hopefully keep things simple:

"Electro-Hydrodynamic Gaseous Fuel Device"
I think the "electro-hydrodynamic" part, is what sets this device apart from fuel-air munition bombs.

This cloud is energized with what is described as a “high potential electrostatic field.”
That electrostatic field is also no part of a normal fuel-air munition bomb.

No problems with the explanation, but if you let off this gaseous substance indoors, surely it would be limited to the room/corridor, and wouldn't permeate through the rest of the building first?

I have a slight problem with the propagation of the substance prior to ignition, and can't quite see how a general (albeit very large) explosion would result in the collapse of the towers that we saw.

It seems a very "outwards" explosion, rather than a directed one aimed at breaking the back of the building to start it collapsing.

posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 07:21 PM
Answers :

Fuel Air Explosives and Thermobaric explosives :

Source :

If you watch that video at 3:00 to 3:30 you'll see that for a FAE, a fuel air explosive :
1. the explosion releases white to grayish smoke,
2. the secondary, most devastating explosion is nearly smoke-less.
In fact, you see the figure being shredded in small pieces by an overpressure wave.

If you watch it at 3:38 to 4:00 you'll see that for a TBE, a thermo baric explosive :
1. He says that normally, a thermobaric device would be used INSIDE a BUILDING,
2. Now when we see the effect in the outside,
At 3:50 to the end,
3. We see that a TBE emanates whitish smoke,
4. A relatively small, bright flash in the centre of the combined explosion.

Watch the flashes going off in the whitish/grayish rings of explosive dust clouds emanating from the WTC tower collapse initiation in the following video :

Source :

In other videos from further away, you all saw the strange huge implosion effects of huge parts of billowing collapse dust and small debris getting sucked back in the center of the demolition.
If this was planned so meticulous, they could take the risk to ignite the real big TBE building busters right during that stage, when heaps of smoke would be produced already, which would mask these building crunchers detonations.
Huge TBE's create an immense vacuum, since they lightning fast burn up all oxygen from the available portion of air, that's about 20 percent of the air.

Powder Game 2.8 - Thermobaric Bomb / MotherOfAllBombs / FatherOAB, showing the vacuum effect in blue :

Source :

In this following Russian video of the detonation of a huge thermobaric over a concrete complex, you see the same left-over fine dust and cement particles as on Ground Zero at the WTC complex after the collapses :

Test of new russian vacuum aerosol bomb, see the dust at 01:05 to 01:30 :

Source :

This following one is part of the same video, with English commentary, but NO DUST shown :
Russian Vacuum Bomb :

Source :

These Russians are saying "It contains about seven tons of high explosives compared with more than eight tons for the Moab but is four times more powerful because it uses a new type of explosives developed with the use of nanotechnology".

This is a video already watched 2,630,024 times, and commented on 17423 times :
9/11: Total Proof That Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings!

Source :

About This Video
Bombs, explosions, secondary explosions, explosive many more times do we need to hear these words being said by 9/11 witnesses before we start asking questions about what really happened on that awful day?

This video shows that many actual 9/11 witnesses heard and saw explosions going off inside the towers, long before they actually fell. These witnesses include police, firemen and mainstream media reporters.

And what is even more shocking is the fact that all of this has been ignored by the mainstream media.

We really need to wake up to the facts and ask questions. If we don't, what does that say about us?

And for those paid or unpaid debunkers who try to ridicule videos like this, please save your breath. No, there were NO gas pipes in the twin towers. And the sound of TV's exploding is nothing like as loud as the repeated explosions that were heard all over the towers. And finally, the reason why some of the lip movements of the speakers do not quite match up with the audio is because YouTube compresses videos into FLV format which causes the video and audio to fall out of sync.

And of course you have to consider from now on, the officially unexplainable energy burst depicted in the seismic records of the 3 building collapses, before any one of them started to globally collapse.

posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 08:15 PM
mirageofdeceit, we saw as a fact, immense clouds of fine cement and concrete dust covering Manhattan.

You should know by now, that there were mainly metal decks with a thin layer of concrete laid over them.
Only at the mechanical floors we could find much thicker, reinforced concrete floor decks.
These modern, recent developed TBE's pulverize thin concrete, as you can see in the Russian video, and they crunch thicker reinforced (with steel rebar) concrete floors, columns and beams.
Just what we saw happen to the 90 or so WTC steel-deck floors covered with cement and concrete (turned to dust), and the mechanical floors (ended up in the rubble as broken pieces of solid concrete).
TBE's can easily spread round corners and corridors, if the primary blast is powerful enough. They are specifically developed to be used INSIDE buildings.

See also my notes for Damocles, our in-house former military demo expert in his thread :

posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 08:40 PM
"Dr.Quintiere is one of the world's leading fire science researchers and safety engineers and served in the Fire Science and Engineering Div. of NIST for 19 years and rose to the position of Chief of the Div. He left NIST in 1990 to join the faculty of the Dept. of FIRE PROTECTION ENGINEERING at the UNIV. OF MARYLAND, where he still serves."
From his 2007 presentation"Questions on the WTC Investigations" :

"In my opinion,the WTC investigation by NIST falls short of expectations by not definitively finding cause,by not sufficiently linking recommendations of specificity to cause, by not invoking all their authority to seek facts in the investigation, and BY GUIDANCE OF GOV. LAWYERS to DETER, rather THAN DEVELOP fact finding." . . .

posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 01:13 PM
(Is Damocles reading?) It would appear that he's suggesting it unlikely that a TBE was used due to the location and size required for such a device to have the desired impact on the building???

I watched the links you posted, and I'm still out on those particular white flashes. As we know, the building exterior was finished with thin aluminum sheet to give a nice appearance to the building, ad protect the steel framework underneath. IMHO the flashes look like those coming off and reflecting the sunlight.

When you look at their location and pattern of dispersal, it seems to be a bit too random, although I agree that the smoke we see emanating out the sides of the building are certainly suspect (occurring many floors ahead of the collapse zone).

It is primarily why I'm having such a tough time with these larger bombs being used; as Damocles said in his post, we'd likely see windows being blown out as a result of the explosion, but we don't see that.

If however, charges were put in place to break the back of the building, this instantly solves two problems:

* The hiding from view of cutting charges
* The problem with the apparent lack of direct evidence of explosions (e.g. windows being blown out).

When you also consider that the majority of each floor was open office space, with the core of the building literally being in the center, there would be little point in putting a bomb anywhere but in the center of the core, if it was just one big device that was used.

[edit on 22-12-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:09 PM
The main difference between thermobaric explosives and traditional explosive devices is, that it moves away from a densely packed explosive core toward a large volume of highly explosive but low-density mass in the form of a gaseous cloud. In a normal high explosive bomb all explosive energy comes from a tightly packed core and must drive outward against air pressure and objects it encounters. It rapidly bleeds off energy at the square of the distance, as it accumulates a wall of pressure resistance and a mass of heavy debris, which it must continually regather and push along.

The new thermobaric design starts as a small device but transforms itself through simple means from a dense-core technology to a much larger gaseous-cloud state.
Igniting the explosive cloud at any peripheral or central point creates a chain-reaction alike and progressively growing explosive force.
As the force of the explosion moves outward, it continues to ignite fresh explosive materials as encountered and gains momentum rather than loosing it.

Further, because the gaseous cloud consists of efficiently mixed explosive materials combined with abundant free-air oxygen, ignition is far more complete and productive - leaving little or no chemical residue or traditional flash evidence (other than a burn signature, which any investigator would presume to be from ordinary fire) on immediately encountered objects.
The net result is as if a significantly larger central core device had been detonated, with the complete and even combustion making difficult any aftermath analysis as to the true nature of the explosives used.

Finally, the shape of the cloud and the ignition point within the cloud, if properly controlled, provides an extremely easy means to create shape-charge effects despite a relatively free-form original cloud shape.

These thermobaric devices can be designed to form a discus-shaped cloud, which when ignited, cuts through steel columns and beams the same as shape-charged high explosives, however more by shattering and fragmentation of the small steel portion in the path of the discus shaped explosion front. But they don't need to be attached to these steel structures.

The initial cutting charge force bleeds off into a traditional explosion pressure front, and causes the impression of a traditional explosion cloud to emanate from a targeted building, but without the very sharp and loud audio footprint of high explosives, just a low frequency footprint. And a faint flash to reach the camera lenses, which can afterwards be explained away as sunlight reflecting on aluminum cladding or shattered glass.

Observe the expulsions of gaseous clouds from just 1 or at the most 3 windows, many floors below the downward racing demolition front, crashing the facade :

Source :

Of course any kind of recognizable audio footprint is not important anymore, in that overwhelming thundering event. Put your speakers up max, to hear the demolition roaring down.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:17 PM
Termed also an electro-hydrodynamic gaseous fuel device, a thermobaric device produces a three-stage explosion through a process described as a highly focused, non-neutronic energy transfer.

The first detonation would be a small, low-volume explosion provided by just a few ounces of PETN explosive. This is placed within a relatively small central core shaft suspended from the top of the bomb container such that it is surrounded by a liquid compound of f.ex. aqueous ammonium nitrate. The core shaft itself (containing the PETN explosive), is itself made up of a compressed and hardened compound of aluminum silicate and N2O4, which starts as a slurry prior to application of a high-pressure baking process. Except for the explosive charge protected from external forces within, these items are all safe from accidental detonation as relatively safe-to-handle materials.
More exotic core shafts are made up of zirconium salts mixed with an oxygen inhibitor.

The first explosion's sole function is something akin to shaking a warm soda bottle violently with only a thumb to cover the opening. The relatively small explosion is providing three key effects: reduction of the inner core shaft to a micro fine powder; mixture of the resulting powder and aqueous solution under violently induced pressure in order to cause complete chemical absorption; and force- opening the container to support eruption of contents into a gaseous state.
The cylindrical bomb casing, which has pre-cut scores or weak points to insure it ruptures in a sawtooth pattern about its middle, splits into two petal-flowered halves which blossom outward from the pressure. The upper half shoots upward as if shot from a cannon, while the lower portion remains cannon-like and in place on its base. The upper half pulls out some isolated, or non-isolated thin electric wires from inside the bottom half.

Milliseconds later, a second explosion of a larger quantity of more powerful PDTN material is set off at the bottom of the container. Timing is critical in milliseconds, as too-long a delay would allow the flash of the explosion to prematurely ignite the gaseous cloud. This detonation must take place before the cloud has been adequately oxygenated and so expanded as to be non-reactant to the flash, but delayed to the optimum point for final blast effects.

The ideal detonator would likely be some form of barometric sensing device looking for the changes in pressure as the explosion's forced evacuation begins to drop back toward normal levels. Simple electronic timing devices could work adequately but would not allow optimum performance in field application, as the variables of bomb placement relative to large objects/structures and open/confined spaces can impact on timing needs in incalculable ways.

This secondary explosive is housed within its own shaped charge container formed into the bottom of the lower bomb casing. The shape and higher force of the second blast forces the bottom of the casing to separate from its base and fly upward. In this action, it will burst open even wider into its own flower petal shape, providing additional turbulent mixing of the forming cloud with free air. The violent turbulence, in turn, causes portions of the cloud to become highly charged electro statically as it continues to form a huge and turbulent mushroom immediately over ground zero. Explosive potential has now been reached, though optimal performance is dictated by cloud size, shape, and density -- which are again variables effected by the bomb its placement and surroundings.

The cloud is made up of a mixture of aqueous Ammonium Nitrate with pulverized Aluminum Silicate and N2O4 compound. Once mixed with each other and free-air oxygen under force of the first two detonations, the resulting cloud is extremely explosive in nature, electro statically charged, decidedly cold, and awaiting only an opportunity to detonate. The shape of the cloud itself, due to the nature of the cannonade-like upward flight of the upper casing, and the blunter and delayed action of the lower casing, is somewhat tear shaped - though designs can be made to produce other shapes by nature of the original container's design. This can be a key factor in fixing the shape and focus of the blast effect.

In air burst explosions provided by conventional weapons, the blast effect is minimal due to a rapid bleed of energy in all directions as blast radius increases, with only those items beneath ground zero being subjected to blast exposure. Ground explosions, however, provide a means of deflecting otherwise wasted energy into a more desired radial blast effect. In nuclear technology, the reverse is true. A ground blast wastes energy in vaporizing and throwing up of tremendous quantities of ground materials where an air blast expands to maximum heat and blast effect forces before coming into contact with ground objects -- forming a broader circle of maximum impact. An air burst shock wave travels in air, a light medium, whereas the ground burst starts with solid matter thrown up by the blast - a heavier medium. An angular shock wave in a light medium tends to reflect when striking a solid, immovable plane such as the earth. This re-radiates the energy outward and back upward, further enhancing the shock wave effects against any encountered ground structures.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:25 PM
If the resulting cloud will be triggered from the top down, energy transfer drives the explosion downward and takes advantage of the tear-shape cloud.

To repeat, as the force of the explosion moves outward from the ignition point, it continues to ignite fresh explosive materials as encountered and the blast gains momentum rather than loosing. By controlling the original ignition point, the blast effect can become highly focused and magnified. Yet, as an air blast, the outermost zone of actual blast damage is somewhat lessened, limiting collateral damage to a given, focused blast perimeter.

This is because the focused energy deflects upward instead of radiating away from ground zero parallel to the ground. Only the secondary shock wave effects would have impact on surrounding or secondary structures or objects -- such as blowing out windows, a peculiar trademark of the device which may dictate or limit applications should the nature of the device become public and covert application be required without revealing the type of explosives used.

This aforementioned scenario describes the 9/11 WTC collapses amazingly precise.
The 47 core-columns were sliced on several floors under the impact floors, by shaped charge effect-enhancing, discus-shaped clouds from thermobaric devices, cutting through the columns under a 45 ° angle, because the discus-shaped clouds were produced by bomb casings, which were pre-cut with a 45° angle, and thus exploded petal-flowered open under that 45° angle.
The clouds formed on those several floors were aimed on each floor at a few specific columns, to decrease the audio footprint per bomb. The first, lowest floor got its left outer core columns packet of 6 to 8 columns sliced, and the last, highest floor (a few floors under the lowest impact point) got its right outer columns packet sliced. All the other floors in between got subsequent column packets sliced, one row per floor further away from the first lowest floor.

This needed only to be done below each 3 mechanical floors, to keep the building at pace with its now initiated natural gravitational descent towards Ground Zero.

This can be seen in the already posted video, where the narrator points to the diagonal climbing explosion-traces to be seen spitting out the WTC facade, under the impact front.

Imagine yourself what happened at those floors, now that you know the characteristics of thermobaric devices.
At floors where the TBE was hidden in the elevator shafts, it would have been standing in a small space near the elevator wall, inside the shaft, and the bomb casing would have been pre-cut, to form a shape-charged cloud inside the shaft, which would shatter all the core columns at the corners of these shafts.

The other smaller devices at the tenant floors could be triggered in such a way as to release the cloud radially rather than vertically, filling the air space within the floor's structure in a suitable fashion. The final detonation there, would likely have been peripherally ignited at simultaneous multiple points. A cloud peripheral detonation would cause the pressure to grow progressively as it raced inward to the center, driving the oxygenated explosive masses tightly together at the center.

As experienced in the World Trade Center, this would create a significant blast force focused both downward and upward. Again, there would be a pronounced sphere of destruction, as the blast punched through several layers of concrete floors in both directions.
Effectively turning all concrete floors to fine powder and blast it up and outwards.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:40 PM
Where traditional military explosives provide detonation velocities of 7,000-8,900 feet per second at the blast point, these bleed off at the square of the distance from the center of ground zero. The thermobaric device, in ideal applications, is capable of much higher performance in the periphery range over a larger ground zero area equal to cloud diameter -- though destructive forces immediately beneath ground zero are noticeably less than at the edge of the cloud and beyond. Final velocities can be conceivably higher with optimal environmental placements, bomb design, and timing. These higher velocities provide several magnitudes greater damage potential as destructive capacity can be said to increase at the square of the force applied.

This weapon would be best applied to specific hard targets where maximum localized damage was considered more important than broad-based damaged to broader concentrations of soft targets.
A hard target is any heavily constructed target such as a steel bridge, high-rise or structure made of reinforced concrete -- any target which would require significant ordinance or explosives in order to achieve destruction. A soft target is anything less than a hard target, such as a wooden structure (your home), or people.

The weapon's unique nature defeats normal aftermath analysis and can therefore be applied in covert actions freely, though some effort to misdirect investigations may be required in order to insure that no undue attention is placed on the unique blast characteristics or the absence of traditional flash evidence and chemical residues.

Such a device, applied at 9/11, could have been relatively small. Depending on placement and the unknown variables of the building's structural strength, suitcase-sized to garbage can-sized devices could have provided the obtained results at various floors. Disguised as ash-tree cans, garbage cans, vending machines, anything within the normally accepted and, payed no attention to, daily environment.

The third and final explosion, which to an observer would be seen as a second explosion due to the mere milliseconds of delay between the first two, is timed to coincide with maximum effectiveness of the expanding cloud. The cloud's expansion rate falls off at the square of the distance from the explosion. For a device relatively small in size, a proper cloud of suitable destructive capability could be achieved in parts of a second initial expansion.

Anything within the targeted blast area, is pulverized by the highly focused nature of what would otherwise be viewed as a relatively small blast. The damage effect is not dissimilar to the visual of an explosion under water, where a violent and rapid expansion takes place and then collapses inward on itself. In this case, however, as there are no great hydraulic pressures to contend with, the greatest destruction takes place within a focused perimeter, while a normalized shock wave continues on. The ensuing collapse and shock waves, relative to the size of the large-volume gaseous bomb - have a remarkably lesser pressure, more in keeping with the size of the original compact device.

Timing is provided by a barometric device which senses the normalization in pressures as the cloud thins at the base and air rushes back to fill the void - the point where expansion begins to falter against air, seeking to rush back into the void created by the first two explosions. Remember the under-water explosion visual. The final detonating device, along with timing controls and bomb activation and triggering mechanisms for the entire weapon, is housed in a bomb base which remains in tact on the ground after the first two explosions. Resting on legs of wood, plastic, or Teflon, it is electrically insulated, though there is a ground wire established for the final triggering circuit.

While it contains a battery to operate the initial timing and triggering circuits, it also contains a quartz-crystal-based piezo-electric device capable of producing many thousands of volts of electricity when "flexed", a phenomenon which occurs naturally as a result of the downward force of the first and second explosion against the housing. This generates a large and very high-voltage charge which temporarily has no where to go, the crystal becoming its own capacitor. At a given point, the barometric timing device trips, and the charge runs up some mono filament wires attached to the bottom half of the outer casing. As the upper half of the casing is thrown high into the air, the filaments are played out from spools built into the base using technology and parts borrowed from wire-guided surface missiles. When the circuit is closed, these carry the charge to the cloud to produce the final, devastating explosion.

A design variant can apply the final voltage to bare filaments to create a flash-bulb effect which ignites the explosion simultaneously about a vertical column above ground zero.
Alternatively, by use of heavier insulated wires stripped bare at a given point, the ignition can be caused to originate at any point between the base and the high-flying lower casing.
Finally, the charge could also be applied either from the base itself for traditional blast effects, or from a peripheral position to the cloud (if calculations of cloud size and shape were adequate) for an unusual laterally-focused blast effect.
However, this would be a tougher challenge to figure out and control ignition points and timing, especially since variables such as wind patterns and intensity, and air displacements from nearby structures, would need to be considered.
Regardless of the focus method employed, because piezo-electric charges are only high in voltage, but not in amperage, the insulated wires do not fuse, and can carry the voltage in tact to its intended destination for ignition.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:43 PM
as far as the groud shakeing. yeah i lived less than a mile from the marine corp air station for about 25 years. those darn jets will rattle anything even knock pictures off the wall. so loud you cant hear a person screaming at the top of their lungs 2 feet away from you.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:46 PM
This bomb design can be subject to great miniaturization.
It is possible to build a bomb the size of a soda pop (with simplified design components, such as use of blasting caps) can for use in any precise target application. It might conceivably even be made to look like an innocent pop can with the pull tab actually triggering the bomb, creating a number of interesting options for delivery and detonation. To bring down an aircraft, for instance, simply leave such a device in the magazine pouch of the seat back and exit the aircraft awaiting a passenger, at some point, to discover it and ask for some ice.

The fingerprint of a small-scale thermobaric device applied in an aircraft or other enclosed environment would be minuscule traces of PDTN but no real traditional signature of explosives at all -- no flash damage, no normal residue levels. There would be mostly fire damage of mysterious origin, and since the blast origin point would be the full size of the cloud (most of the cabin), there would seem no blast point or traditional bomb damage at all -- just as if the aircraft "went to pieces". Investigators would be hard pressed to conclude explosives as the means of destruction.

Likewise, the bomb could enjoy great economy of scale as a weapon of mass destruction, conceivably on a nuclear scale, but without traditional radiation problems. This would have significant strategic significance as targets could safely be occupied by troops immediately after attack. Separate studies are under way to deal with the impact of such technology on military planning and foreign policy.

At this time, construction techniques and quality control requirements remain highly sophisticated and at a level which would defy normal mass production. Unless willing to accept significant performance loss, it requires custom design and construction for any given application. As such, it lends itself to uses perhaps best appreciated by the intelligence apparatus. Therefore, its existence should not become general knowledge within other agencies such as DOD unless further studies can find such a move advantageous. However, since the unique characteristics of the bomb could conceivably arouse great curiosity in aftermath investigations, its use as a covert tool should be undertaken with great restraint and reserved for highly selective application.

A lot of the above information comes from a highly interesting book, Fatal Rebirth , a book on crimes of the intelligence community by H. Michael Sweeney. I took the liberty to add my own thoughts to many of his notes.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 05:06 PM
The point is that we are left with only a few options regarding eventual explosives used on the demolition of these 3 buildings, if you come to a point where you start to accept a demolition.

One option : the used ordnance must have a very low frequency footprint, according to the video of 911Eyewitness Rick Siegel, and since there were no sharp, loud cracking sounds of HE to be heard on the collapse videos.

Thanks to ZeuZZ, from his excellent post here :

This video is probably the best angle to see the symmetrical (demolition) ring running at free fall speed down the building :

This is the clearest example of demolition traces running down the building's facades, especially when you see the inverted color footage at the very end of this BBC video footage from the collapse of WTC 2, south tower, the first collapse.
Watch first the black bulb emanating many floors under the demolition front, then see the sudden black bulb enfolding just in front of the crashing down demolition front ring of smoke, bursting out of all the buildings faces.

I used this exact video btw a few years back to prove that the total collapse time of the total structure of the building must have been about 12 + 12 seconds, since you can count the seconds after the first sign of implosion on WTC 2 faces, until the first big chunk of perimeter column packet thunders into the Plaza's ground level, at 12 seconds. At that point, still about half of the building stands. Thus about 12 more seconds were needed to let the last rubble come to rest.

This also offers a peculiar video proof that additional energy sources must have been responsible for perimeter wall parts to have been rocketed away for more than 300 feet, to land in the glass roof of the Winter Garden, since we can see clearly in this BBC video, that the first chunks of perimeter wall hit the ground very near to the building base. This was probably caused by the demolition sequence of the inner core columns, which were cut first, and glided down in the core of the building, pulling the floors and subsequently the perimeter wall down with them, at their weakest, plane impact points.
Parts of those broke off and fell down near the base.
But the perimeter parts at the mechanical floors were exploded much further out, and ended on the periphery of the debris pattern observed after the final debris hit the ground.

Pay attention at the last seconds of this video, the very indicative horizontal line of demolition-smoke ejections emanating from the reinforced service floors, the black band around the building (they had no windows, only louvers). These floors had to be taken out just before the demolition front reached them, so it wasn't as obvious as if they had done that a few seconds earlier.
It still however, is crystal clear to see that the reinforced concrete floors were blown out.

A recent Russian army video I posted in my thermobaric thread, shows how a huge concrete complex was blown to smithereens by one of the LATESTS thermobaric devices, and in the last few shots, you see that all the concrete had turned to fine DUST and small concrete chunks, just as we saw in the WTC debris.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 05:28 PM
Whoa...... you made a darn good case there. I just hope the info posted above isn't illegal, if ya know what I mean.

I'm no chemist, but I can see how the physics of it works.

posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 06:02 PM
There is a widely forgotten, but serious interesting detail to mention again :
The basement of both towers were FLOODED, a main water pipe coming through the bathtub wall, was found broken very early after the plane impacts.

That in itself was already a very peculiar thing to happen.

Many witnesses told us that the basement was flooded, William Rodriguez told us a few days after 9/11 already that he had to rescue two badly burnt men from drowning in an elevator shaft end, he offered them an aluminum ladder to pull them out of the water.

Now do any of you ever saw the detonation of a depth charge at sea, several meters under water?

If you ever heard a low frequency detonation, that's one to begin with.

That basement had to be flooded, to muffle the sound of the heaviest explosions which destabilized the core column packet in the basements.

Such an underwater detonation also causes severe ground shaking.

And a distinct seismic footprint, ahead of the following collapses.

By the way, thermate burns just as easy underwater as above, just that you know that little fact also, add that to all your arising questions.

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