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Christian "Ex-Gay" Movement Grows, Brainwashing Thousands

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posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 01:17 PM
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Christian "Ex-Gay" Movement Grows, Brainwashing Thousands


www.alternet.org

The anti-gay Christian Right's "sexual reorientation therapy" has ruined countless lives. Can it be stopped?
Reparative or sexual reorientation therapy, the pseudo-scientific foundation of the ex-gay movement, has been discredited by virtually all major American medical, psychiatric, psychological and professional counseling organizations.
The American Psychological Association declared "There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.exgaywatch.com
www.boxturtlebulletin.com
www.advocate.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Christianity and Homosexuality....
Why do Christian and other Religious groups lie?
Rev. Ted Haggard now 'completely heterosexual'




posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 01:17 PM
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What's so scary about this movement, is that it has seemingly evolved from a stated goal of "healing" gays, to a group devoted to adamantly opposing any social advances by the gay community.


Although the stated aim of the movement is to turn gays straight and bring them to God, it actually now has as much to do with battling the gay rights movement by trying to prove that sexuality is not an immutable characteristic like race or gender. Ex-gay ministries began as redoubts for men and women trying to reconcile their faith and sexuality. But in the hands of the anti-gay Christian Right, they have become full-fledged propaganda machines depicting gays as sex-addicted, mentally ill, and stunted heterosexuals.


These programs don't work because they're founded on the false premise that being homosexual is something that one can choose to be.

Why must these narrow-minded ideologues seek to impose their views on society as a whole?

www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)


+2 more 
posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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Actually I believe it is the other way around. Thousands of teenagers and young adolescents who are in fact normal heterosexuals have been brainwashed into believing that they are homosexuals because either they were unsuccessful with the opposite sex or were having other personality disorders. Also the social status that is projected of these people of being "suave and cool" and outside the system has misled thousands into believing that they are homosexuals, when they are not. Add to this the level of social norms and mores have been steadily decaying over the past few decades and any and all stigma attached to reckless and wanton debauchery has gone making homosexuality and bestiality more commonplace and even marketed.

People can understand this by the fact that in Western Nations the number of people homosexually oriented is steadily increasing year after year. These are not "natural" cases but converts or experimentalists.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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I can help but think to myself ..how incredibly stupid this topic line is among so many peoples. By incredibly stupid I mean lots of people including professional peoples...experts.

Talk about public masturbation. Being jerked off because someone is a professional/expert.

By this crudity..and by the way ...pardon the crudity... but this topic line deserves every bit of the crudity because of the extended stupidity it promotes both to the so called gay community and also the straight community.

Those of you reading this will recognize of what I speak once I explain.

No one ...of any thinking caliber...defines themselves by their sexuality..or sexual orientation. YOu have to go to school to get this stupid. Ordinary people who are not a train wreck with their emotions know better than this nonsense. This appliies not only to the "gay " community but the " non gay" community too.

I am not saying that people dont have sex or sexual orientation. I am saying that people are so much more than sex or sexual orientation. For a particualar group of people to have a claim to fame based on their sexual orientation is like....stupid. GAy or straight.

On the other hand ..there are lots of people in the non gay communith ..thier sexual orientation and trappings of sexuality are the only thing they have going for them. Little thinking going on here too. TAlk about stupid.

Once you think for yourself you see this nonsense in advertising, In politics, in education ...and it is all nonsense. It does however sell products and get votes in the voting booth.

This issue is a placebo issue. To keep people on a treadmill so that they are malliable and conditioned to either vote pro..or at least stay neuter on the issue. But it is never designed or promoted to allow people to think outside of the nonsense. Talk about propaganda. Talk about brainwashing.

No one of any sense at all defines themselves by thier sexuality or sexual orientation. People are so much more than sexuality...gay and straight.

The amazing thing to me is that I see so many people doing this nonsense...and they are obviously telling me that they are a bunch of educated or psuedo educated dumb a--ses.

This whole issue is nothing more than a method of conditioning/brainwashing to let certain postitions play through without dissent. To default through. Heap huge amounts of guilt and baggage on those who dont carry the party line..and in effect neuter them.

Never...never allow the common sense of which I speak to get into anyones view point or thinking.

This issue is a placebo because it deletes common sense from the public domain.

The other incredible thing to me is that so many of the religious leaders in this and other countrys seem to not recognize this simple truth ..that people are so much more than sexuality. Astonishing to me. And these too are supposed to be educated folks. Astonishing!! They are stupid too.

Nonetheless ..I hope some of you readers get my point and when this nonsense comes into your viewpoint again..you remember what I posted here. People are so much more than sexuality. To claim fame or what you believe you deserve by sexuality or sexual orientation is like...incredibly stupid.

Only public education...programming, conditioning, or brainwashing can dumb a people down so far they lose sight of this common sense.

Stupidity seems to be in vogue alot today.


Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
Actually I believe it is the other way around.


You're kidding, right?



Originally posted by IAF101
...has gone making homosexuality and bestiality more commonplace and even marketed.


Well there's your problem right there, what's bestiality got to do with homosexuality?



Originally posted by IAF101
People can understand this by the fact that in Western Nations the number of people homosexually oriented is steadily increasing year after year.


The number of people of all stripes and persuasions has increased, everywhere, year after year.

What would be a more accurate indicator would be the percentage of those professing homosexuality to the general population at large.

You're isolating out one subset, which renders your assertion flawed, IMHO.



Originally posted by IAF101
These are not "natural" cases but converts or experimentalists.


Would you mind backing up this opinion with quantifiable, statistical evidence?


Thanks for your post.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Absolutely true....um....I think.

Let me see if I understand what you're saying here.

People should be weighed not by any one particular isolated facet of their being, such as their sexual orientation, and instead, by the totality of what it is that makes that person who they are, right?

So to attempt to define a person strictly by their genetic predispositions, such as hair color, physical stature, or sexual orientation, is patently wrong, correct?

In that case, yea, I agree with you.


Thanks for your post!



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 04:17 PM
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Brainwash my foot! If people choose to be this easily misled, it's their own fault! These people need to learn how to distinguish between helping the greater good and sticking their ugly faces into things that they don't really need to bother with. I can easily agree with the whole "experimantalist" thing, as that is human nature. People are just taking this way too far! Can I get some opinions on why people are so offended by homosexuals? I personally just don't get it. Sure, it's natural to object to things you can't relate to, but this world could really use a bit more tolerance!



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by goosdawg

Originally posted by IAF101
Actually I believe it is the other way around.


You're kidding, right?

No I'm not.

Originally posted by goosdawg
Well there's your problem right there, what's bestiality got to do with homosexuality?

It is marketed for its "freak" and "shock" value by tying it into the BDSM theme and other "fetish" oriented debaucheries.

Originally posted by goosdawg
The number of people of all stripes and persuasions has increased, everywhere, year after year.

Yes, knowing how the homosexual people are increasing with respect to the overall population is a good measure but due to the nature of the homosexual community there is no definite way to know. Today, some teenager is homosexual, tomorrow he is bisexual and the day after he is hetrosexual and maybe a week after he is asexual ? Also this happens to the sexual vagrants in the homosexual community as well. Some people suddenly decide to become homosexual people after living in families with children. All these make it hard to put a percentage on them I think.
But from the general sense of the surroundings I think the number of homosexual people are more today as in their percentage is increasing unnaturally with respect to what can reasonably explained as "natural" occurrences.


Originally posted by goosdawg
Would you mind backing up this opinion with quantifiable, statistical evidence?


I'm not a sociologist, I can not write a paper to validate my claims. I doubt you are as well. My feeling is that it is actually the reverse of what you started off saying in your original posting . There are many visible identifiers thought which are easier to infer the results from. Like the spread of more and more gay bars. The growth of the homosexual people's unions across the cities and also the rise of a visible trend of homosexual people growing in schools.
Homosexual people have blockaded a set of behavior traits that they choose to identify with and young people, especially teenager and other kinder who introspect into their lives come to beleive that they have some of these traits and begin to convince themselves that they are indeed homosexual people.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by goosdawg
 

So what?
I'm sure the people in these classes are not there by force. If they want to attend then why don't you just mind your own business and stop trying to force your views on others.


While I have nothing personal against gay people, their behavior is not natural IMO.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 05:15 PM
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The concept of "homosexuality" as a phenomenon didn't really exist before the late 19th century.

Not that homosexual behavior didn't exist, thats been around since the dawn of time, but the idea of "homosexuals" as a distinct class of people really didn't exist till then.

And it's still not a concept that is universal - in the West we'd tend to consider any male who habitually has sex with other males as "gay" - but in much of the world, it's not seen that way. The "homosexual" is the one taking the passive role in sex, the guy taking the active role is not seen as a "homosexual" at all.

All very strange how in different cultures we deceive ourselves about sexuality in different ways.

The "ex gay" movement is more than a little absurd, from case studies I have read, the "ex-gays" generally don't really stop having sex with other guys. They simply go back in the closet, living most of their lives as "straight" - getting married, having kids, etc. - while still furtively picking up guys on the side.

In other words, going back to the pattern that was typical of males who prefer their own sex before the 20th century gay rights movement.

So the ex-gay movement is not so much a rejection of homosexuality as a behavior - whatever it's PR flacks want to claim - but a rejection of "homosexual" as an identity.

Why?

I think it's fairly simple - organized religions (and other institutions) manipulate individuals primarily through guilt. The more different varieties of sexual behavior come out into the open, due to our modern mass media, the less effective this guilt becomes as a tool of manipulation.

As I said, the "ex-gay" movement isn't really a campaign against homosexual behavior - that's essentially impossible, like launching a campaign against gravity or oxygen, or any other fact of nature.

It's a campaign against the assimilation of "gay" as an acceptable variation in mainstream society and all it entails - stable homosexual couples forming families and the like - because it's a threat to the psychological power of institutions over individuals.

That's my take anyway.

[edit on 12/15/07 by xmotex]



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
reply to post by goosdawg
 

So what?
I'm sure the people in these classes are not there by force. If they want to attend then why don't you just mind your own business and stop trying to force your views on others.


While I have nothing personal against gay people, their behavior is not natural IMO.


With all due respect, a personal belief that gay behavior is "not natural" that is nothing personal against gay people confuses me. I think the point of the article is why don't these control freaks running these classes just mind their own business and stop trying to force their views on others.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by kattraxx
With all due respect, a personal belief that gay behavior is "not natural" that is nothing personal against gay people confuses me.

Meaning that just because IMO I find homo behavior not to be natural, I personally don't care what they do in private.


I think the point of the article is why don't these control freaks running these classes just mind their own business and stop trying to force their views on others.

Umm....The people attending the classes are NOT being forced to attend. There is no gun to their head. So if they want to attend then perhaps YOU should stop trying to force your beliefs on them and mind your own business.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 05:57 PM
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As for whether it's natural or not, there was a study a while back that noted that, at least in sheep, there is a difference in structure between homosexual and heterosexuals. this study has not been performed in hmans due to the fact it requires removing the brain.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by goosdawg
Well there's your problem right there, what's bestiality got to do with homosexuality?

It is marketed for its "freak" and "shock" value by tying it into the BDSM theme and other "fetish" oriented debaucheries.


I wouldn't know, I don't frequent those kind of places.


But what you're trying to equate as comparable are questionable activities people can choose to indulge in or not, against genetic predispositions over which those so inclined have no choice.

One can't choose to be born gay, but one can make the choice of what type of behavior in which to indulge.

And so long as no one involved in that behavior objects, who's business is it to tell them they cannot or should not indulge, so long as it's mutually agreeable by all the parties involved?

Just for the record, I don't condone bestiality, because the poor critters don't get a vote.



Originally posted by IAF101
Today, some teenager is homosexual, tomorrow he is bisexual and the day after he is hetrosexual and maybe a week after he is asexual ?


Labels.

If you're born homosexual, you're homosexual. Statistics agree, one can't change that. Period.


Originally posted by IAF101
Also this happens to the sexual vagrants in the homosexual community as well. Some people suddenly decide to become homosexual people after living in families with children. All these make it hard to put a percentage on them I think.


One may suddenly realize they're homosexual, but it's not a "decision," according to science.

No more than a white man can "decide" to be black.

They can act "black" but they can't be black.

And it's certain segments of society that decide to "put" something on other segments of society that lead to a lot of unnecessary conflicts, IMHO.


Originally posted by IAF101
But from the general sense of the surroundings I think the number of homosexual people are more today as in their percentage is increasing unnaturally with respect to what can reasonably explained as "natural" occurrences.


Generally, I think the perception that there are more homosexuals today is due to the fact that less of them feel compelled to stay in the closet.

And I don't think they could recruit true heterosexuals to join them.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
So what?


What?



Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
I'm sure the people in these classes are not there by force.


Are you sure?

Is it their choice to be conditioned through the use of guilt to think that their natural inclinations are going to undermine society as we know it?


Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
If they want to attend then why don't you just mind your own business and stop trying to force your views on others.


That's where you're wrong!

I would never force my views on someone else, that's the province of the self-righteous.

And I don't cotton to their ways, why would I choose to emulate 'em?


Do keep in mind, I'm only presenting my opinions here, it's up to the individual to decide for themselves what's best for their world view, so long as they don't choose to force their views on the unwilling.

As I'm fond of saying, "You can lead the hoards to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think."


Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
While I have nothing personal against gay people, their behavior is not natural IMO.


Actually, judging by the behavior of most of the animal kingdom, I'd have to, respectfully, disagree with you there.

It is natural behavior to do what one's genetically driven to do.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex
The concept of "homosexuality" as a phenomenon didn't really exist before the late 19th century.


Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?


Genesis 19

[4] But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
[5] And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
[6] And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
[7] And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

[8] Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

[emphasis mine]

quod.lib.umich.edu...


The "concept of homosexuality" is at least that old, which was way before the 19th century.


[edit on 2007/12/15 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by goosdawg
Are you sure?

Umm...Yes.
Please show where they are being forced to attend.


That's where you're wrong!
I would never force my views on someone else, that's the province of the self-righteous.

Thats easy rhetoric to spew but unless you can show that they are being forced to attend, your point has no merit and is moot.


Actually, judging by the behavior of most of the animal kingdom, I'd have to, respectfully, disagree with you there.

First of all, your use of the word 'most' is puzzling. 'Most' in the animal kingdom are not 'gay'.

Just because something is done in the animal kingdom does not mean its natural or normal and this analogy does not help your case. There are deformations and freaks of nature all the time in the animal kingdom. Also, you do realize we have evolved higher than creatures in nature right?


I view homosexuals the same as someone born with a deformity or defect. Somewhere the lines got crossed and they are not wired correctly.

[edit on 15-12-2007 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by goosdawg
Actually, judging by the behavior of most of the animal kingdom, I'd have to, respectfully, disagree with you there.


Dogs eat their own poo.

Et tu?



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 




Just because something is done in the animal kingdom does not mean its natural or normal and this analogy does not help your case. There are deformations and freaks of nature all the time in the animal kingdom. Also, you do realize we have evolved higher than creatures in nature right?


That is completely true. I hate people comparing what animals do, to what we do.

There are animals that EAT THEIR OWN YOUNG. So, does that mean it is acceptable for us to do that? There are animals that will KILL one of their young if it is deformed. So, does that mean it is acceptable for us to do that?



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by GradyPhilpott
 


Wait a minute!

Lot was gonna turn out his own daughters to be raped by the crowds, rather than let men lay down with other men?

I don't get it.


How is this virtuous behavior?

Wouldn't it be better to fight and die than to surrender up anyone under your care?




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