FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

reply to post by IvanZana


Ivan, not sure what your deal is, why you are so zealous to claim lies...

Veep Cheney (and I'm not big fan of his) decided to provide the 'shoot-down' order at 1002, about a minute after UAL 93 impacted in Shanksville.

Sorry, this needs to stop! This hurts the victims, and lies are not being promulgated by the government, it is a terrible, vile attempt by con-artists to make money off of grief.

It has been done through out the centuries, in years past, via 'mediums' and 'seances'....now, it continues, and it is a shame.

WW

[adding] Right now, on the TV, is on the History Channel....a program titled 'Zero Hour' All about AA Flight 11, something you really should see!!!

[edit on 4/13/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by IvanZana
Oh captain obvious..... Youve been schooled in this thread. Your attempts to prove a plane crashed is laughable at best

Funny how you stole my line about you from another thread.

In 93 pages, you have failed to offer the following:

a-An original thought

b-Physical Evidence

c-Reliable eyewitness statements

d- ANY proof what so ever to support your claims.

I, on the other hand, have offered:

a- Eyewitness statements to support the crash of light 93 in shanksville
b- Lists of people WITH contact information that did the investigations.
c- Photographs of plane remains
d- List of phone calls made from the airplane
e- Family responses to their loved ones that phones them

etc etc etc

Schooled? ME? NO, my friend I am afraid in the 2nd largest 911 thread in this forum, you have yet to offer 1 SINGLE shred of evidence that supports your theory.

Originally posted by IvanZana
This little crater is 10 feet by 30 feet.

Oh captain obvious..... Youve been schooled in this thread. Your attempts to prove a plane crashed is laughable at best

There is no plane in this hole.

The Shanksville crash site was part of the 911 wargames. Shankville was the site of the operation which involved in a simulated shoot down , crash and recovery. The crash site was caused by some ordinace in a already present fissure in the soft dirt. Very consistant with simulated mock plane crash drills.

So no one has been able to prove a Boeing 757 in shanksville (flight 93) because one didnt.

Sorry but your debunking has not convinced anyone.


Debunkers say that the plane "atomized"

I say, get a new job.

[edit on 13-4-2008 by IvanZana]

But there are parts of flight 93, most of them, in that hole. A classic high speed impact, looks like about 4,250,000,000 joules of impact energy. Nice shot of a classic aircraft ground encounter at over 500 KIAS. Go to accident investigation school and you will see you have evidence of the impact; You are posting evidence of the impact of 93. The people are in there too.

OMG where do you get all these numbers from...lol... You just making this up as you go along?

OH my, provide sources for your fantastic, unrealistic theories.

Here is a quote from a OFFICIAL 'STORY' PEDDLER (debunker)
Originally posted by IvanZana
When I read your reply, i had to read it twice for i thought you must of been joking or atleast sarcastic but I am easily convinced now that your either misinfomed , scared of the truth or carry a personal grudge against 9/11 Truthers as you see them in the likeness of Squeegee kids or all of the above.
[

quote] Captain Obvious in Quotation

Think of this - strike a match and quickly pass your finger through it. Did you get burned? No. Try the same thing with a piece of paper. Or grass.

Put your finger in alcohol or jet fuel then pass it through some flame, and dont bother telling how us much it hurt and burned you.

Are you aware that your trying to compare how a 600Mph, fully fueled comercial airplane crashing into the ground at over 600Mp/h at a 45 degree angle leaving a crater no longer than a full-size chevy car....
with a childhood experience playing with matches?

Do you think ATS members are so naive?

The fuel blew AWAY from where the photog was standing at impact, towards the trees. Remember the 40 degree impact angle? It was angled towards the trees. That's why the grass and trees on that side were burnt in that direction. Simple for most to understand that.

Now your reaching Are you making these theories up as you go along.

"The fuel Blew Away" - Like all your credibility and respect.

As far as your impact crater claim, wrong again. The crater direction and explosion damage on the upper parts of the trees, DO NOT LINE UP with the "official" direction of the plane.

Show some evidence, diagrams , graphs, anything other than just saying so. I wont be expecting anything new, convincing or even realistic. Ive seen it all.

The grass is not untouched. That's what you believe. I do not. Therefore, from my point of view, your q is invalid.

But you also believe that planes "atomize", jet fuel "blows away" , planes "vanish", people who question authority are "nutty" "stupid" "ignorant" so what you believe is just that.

The wings shattered into small pieces upon impact. Only small scattered pieces remained. Or are you suggesting that one would find intact wings?

Of course not. We expect to see a plane crash and we dont.
You have failed to prove one did as we all proved one didn't .

Remember, you shouldn't have to convince anyone that a massive commercial airliner crashed, those are usually self explanatory

Why are you trying so hard to?

The fuel was atomized and formed the fireball, some spread into the trees, catching them on fire.

The pictures ( the high quality ones) show no fire in the forest at all, no burnt grass , bark, etc.(pictures earlier in the thread proves these).

Lack of fire? Did I mention the trees? Do you see them in YOUR photos?

Yes, as it has been discussed and agreed upon that the tree damage was consistant with a high velocity explosion and not a plane crash fuel fire for the grass between the crater all way through to the end of the burn zone. No grass, bark, or branch was BURNED by jet fuel around the the crash site anywhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am happy you(s) finally answered.

Congratulations. You officially destroyed the official account for anyone trying to understand Shanksville/ Flight 93 by trying so manically to uphold it.

Your imaginative twisting of facts rivals that of Arlan Specter's Magic Bullet in the Warren Report. We all know why the impossible magic bullet was invented. You invent theories on how a Boeing 757 and all its fuel 'Atomized' and"de-materialized" on impact without burning any surrounding grass around the small 10x30ft hole, when there has been not one shred of evidence from the crash investigation to support it, and in fact, actual photos of the crash site disprove you.


This thread and my message has reached exactly who i wanted it to.

As your Boss once said on a carrier years ago....

"Mission Accomplished"



CONCLUSION: No Boeing 757 crashed in Shanksville on September 11th,2001.
The pseudo crash site was to be used in the terror drill exercises. Some of the exercises included crashing a plane into the Pentagon and the WTC, some of the simulated a terrorist plane crash complete with bodies, ground pigs meat ( to act as body parts), plane parts, raging fire.

Check out this airplane crash..



Just a simulation, not real. That is just like the plane crash exercise at Shanksville on September 11th, 2001....

Minus the bodies.








[edit on 13-4-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 14-4-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by Cromagnum
I'd like to add my 2 cents worth regarding this thread. From what I understand, the impact crater from this flight would suggest a descent of about 90 degrees but the black box states otherwise. (35 degrees). And apparently there is no substantial wreckage found, or at least visible in the photos and reported by numerous news reports. Then I find this! I do not see it mentioned on this site anywhere so I hope this hasn't been already brought up.

aviation-safety.net...

This link posts the NTSB reports and findings on Korean Flight 801 which for those of you who don't know or remember was the worst airline accident to date involving a 747 back in 1997. If you view this page, you can clearly see through an animation video that shows the progress of the plane as it descends to its fate which is comprised from the flight data recorder. This plane although a bit larger than flight 93 descends at an angle of about 44 degrees, give or take a few, and there is clear evidence of wreckage left at the sight.

So why do you have 2 accidents, both very relative to the angle of descent and only 1 of them (Flight 801) show evidence of an actual crash??
I think this is some pretty significant evidence showing that Flight 93 couldn't have crashed in PA. WHat do you all think?

The video you saw showed a compressed horizontal scale, the degrees from level ground at impact was 3 degrees to 5 degrees. That video was compressed, making the angle look like 40 degrees. At the slow speed of 801 and the high speed of 93, you have different damage.

The energy of flight 93 and the angle it was pitched down, forced it into the ground. The energy of impact of 93 is 8 times the energy per pound of 801.

If the angles were the same into the ground, the energy per pound at impact was 8 times greater for 93's impact.

You have a good example why people do not understand 93, the accident you cited was slow speed, aircraft with gear and flaps, about 180 mph. 93 was clean going 570 mph. This is why 93 was buried in a hole, and 801 was scattered around. Energy.

[edit on 14-4-2008 by beachnut]

reply to post by IvanZana


Hats off to you. This is great.

reply to post by IvanZana


You will be reported AGAIN for posting that Ivan. I did not state that and you know it.

Stick to some facts. Posting picture of a disaster drill where people LIVED is not going to change ANYONES minds.

Originally posted by IvanZana
Now since they cant debunk the truth, expect a whole new phase pf disinformation concerning a shootdown theory started by government disinformationalists to make 911 truthers look foolish


the shoot down theory was started by LETSROLL911 the same people who brought missile pods and holograms to obsefucate and derail you from the perps and the truth.


I SAY AGAIN... The shootdown theory is a STRAWMAN theory started by government entities.

Actually I remember seeing local online newspaper reports from PA in the first days after 9/11 speculating on the shootdown scenario. I particularly remember quotes from locals--farmers, etc.--who had seen military jets in the immediate area.

There was a great deal of this sort of speculation immediately afterward: I had many conversations about it myself and I'm sure many others did too.

Added FWIW; I can't provide links and assume such reports were later scrubbed, but that is my recollection.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
reply to post by IvanZana

 

You will be reported AGAIN for posting that Ivan. I did not state that and you know it.

YOU DID STATE THAT!!!! YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FOR CHANGING YOUR POSTS!!


Just because it took no time to wrap up your whole fantasy and incredibily stupid answers, you cannot whine and say you didnt write it.

To you new users and lurkers that are reading this.

Understand that there are people who post on forums who work for the government, hired through head hunters, that are paid to cover up any truth and lies concerning 911.

These users will come one in tag-teams and pretend to be scientists and engineers. They are not. Do not believe them.

Rule of thumb is to look the opposite direction from where these government shills tell you to look.

When a goverment shill says" Missile shot from flight 175" Then that means a cruise missile was used in Shankville.

When they say the building was brought down by fire then understand that it was brought down with explosives.

If they say a Plane crashed in Shanksville. Then one didnt (as all the evidence proves)




I thought you were told by your superiors to not touch Ivan's threads for you always make yourself look foolish and also lend a hand to the destruction of the official story for new users.

reply to post by IvanZana


To all you new users and lurkers out there...

Ivan is right. I get paid $550,000 a year by the FBI, NSA, CIA, TSA, FAA IRS, and every other alphabet soup agency out there. Man, what a cushy job, only problem is the risk of CTS.

Actually, it is a crying shame, and breaks my heart, that there are people who refuse to recognize the heroism of those passengers on UAL 93, for their attempt to take matters into their own hands, to have some measure of control. Yet, we have a few cowardly people on the 'interweb' who started this baloney, then they get some converts to continue the discussions...

I call 'dis-info' agent on Ivan....I thnk he is the one getting paid to spread a certain viewpoint, a minority viewpoint. Others do this in our spare time, in order to DENY ignorance.

Remember, ignorance is not a pejorative term. To say someone is 'ignorant' is not an insult, it is a statement meaning that they simply don't have certain knowledge. But the human brain is incredible, because it can learn...

WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Actually, it is a crying shame, and breaks my heart, that there are people who refuse to recognize the heroism of those passengers on UAL 93, for their attempt to take matters into their own hands, to have some measure of control.

Its an even bigger shame that people who believe the official story will not do the research to find the truth of what happened which shows a lot of disrespect for the people that died that day.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Its an even bigger shame that people who believe the official story will not do the research to find the truth of what happened which shows a lot of disrespect for the people that died that day.

Ultima..all your research, and you have YET to provide us to what you think happened.

Good job

Originally posted by IvanZana




YOU DID STATE THAT!!!! YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FOR CHANGING YOUR POSTS!!

Please provide the post where you claim it was edited from.

If you adhered to the proper way to uses quote tags, you would have known that it wasn't me that stated that.

But if it helps you sleep at night...have at it.

We are all still waiting for the smoking gun you promised 93 pages ago

reply to post by ULTIMA1


ULTIMA (and Ivan, since you seem to be tag-teaming, and giving each other stars)

Long time (a month?) ago, I suggested a similar airline accident, in (coincidentally) Pennsylvania --- USAir 427, 8 SEP 1997, outside Pittsburgh.

Would you both please use your incredible investigative skills, and find photos of the crash site, and compare them to Shanksville?

You see, although I know how to type, and to spell, I still don't know how to pull another's 'quotes', nor do I know how to bring info from other sources, unlike ULTIMA an Ivan, who are quite adept at it.

So, whenever I am labelled a 'disinfo agent', I bristle. Because if I were that good, I'd be pulling stuff from all over, and would be very good at it to boot!

What I do instead, is use my knowledge, and skills, to attempt to explain things to people who don't seem to want to listen and learn.

I've taught a lot of people to fly, over the years, and not once have I lied to them, or mis-represented the information I was imparting. I also know when I see a load of cow manure....if it looks like cow manure and smells like cow manure, then guess what? AND the answer is not 'It's a duck'.

This whole idea, the 'conspiracy' of 11 SEPT 2001 is....a load of red herrings, and mis-direction, and is propagated by a minority of people who, once they got it started, just sit back and reap the financial reward.

THIS is what breaks my heart. That the efforts of a few greedy instigators has led to this nightmare.

The families of the victims don't want any part of this, because it is TOO painful, and it is tragic to even bring it up, nor would they care to revisit it.

Sometimes, I feel shame for speaking out, not because of my opinion, but because I fear it could cause someone, somewhere, additional pain. I choose my words carefully, cognizant that a relative may someday come across what I write....we often use brutal truths to make a point, and I apologize to any family member who may read those....

Ivan, when will you respond to the evidence presented to you?

You post over and over a quote that I never posted. You do this as a smear tactic to somehow undermine me and discredit me.

I would like you to address the following evidence, explaining to me how it is inadmissible or false, or part of this giant conspiracy.

Telling me to repeat somthing over and over 5 times does not cut it.

This same evidence was presented to you back in January. We are now in the middle of April.

Thank you,

C.O.

Eye Witnesses to Flight 93

Blair, of Stoystown, a driver with Jim Barron Trucking of Somerset, was traveling in a coal truck along with Doug Miller of Somerset, when they saw the plane spiraling to the ground and then explode on the outskirts of Lambertsville.

“I saw the plane flying upside down overhead and crash into the nearby trees. My buddy, Doug, and I grabbed our fire extinguishers and ran to the scene,” said Blair.

/guct4

"It was low enough, I thought you could probably count the rivets. You could see more of the roof of the plane than you could the belly. It was on its side. There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud."

/m347n

Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky.

Peterson rushed to the scene on an all-terrain vehicle and when he arrived he saw bits and pieces of an airliner spread over a large area of an abandoned strip-mine in Stonycreek Township.

"There was a crater in the ground that was really burning," Peterson said. Strewn about were pieces of clothing hanging from trees and parts of the Boeing 757, but nothing bigger than a couple of feet long, he said. Many of the items were burning.

www.post-gazette.com...

The ensuing firestorm lasted five or 10 minutes and reached several hundred yards into the sky, said Joe Wilt, 63, who also lives a quarter-mile from the crash site.

-"Jetliner Was Diverted Toward Washington Before Crash in Pa." The Washington Post September 12, 2001

Rob Kimmel, several miles from the crash site: He sees it fly overhead, banking hard to the right. It is 200 feet or less off the ground as it crests a hill to the southeast. "I saw the top of the plane, not the bottom."

- [Among the Heroes, by Jere Longman, p. 210-211]


Terry Butler "It dropped out of the clouds." The plane rose slightly, trying to gain altitude, then "it just went flip to the right and then straight down."

-[Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/12/01]

Lee Purbaugh, 300 yards away: "There was an incredibly loud rumbling sound and there it was, right there, right above my head – maybe 50 feet up.... I saw it rock from side to side then, suddenly, it dipped and dived, nose first, with a huge explosion, into the ground. I knew immediately that no one could possibly have survived."

-[Independent, 8/13/02]


[edit on 15-4-2008 by CaptainObvious]

Please Respond to the Following Evidence

As coroner, responsible for returning human remains, Miller has been forced to share with the families information that is unimaginable. As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.

www.archive.org...



Ivan, please explain to me how 600 pounds of human remains got planted 30 feet into the ground.

As I stated back in January, if you don't believe me, I can give you Mr. Millers contact information. You can ask him for yourself.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Please Respond to the Following Evidence




Ivan, please explain to me how 600 pounds of human remains got planted 30 feet into the ground.

There is no proof of any flesh being found in the small missile crater.

Besides "600 lbs" is equivelent to 3 men, so wheres the other 50 or more people?
Where the other 9000-10000 lbs of human flesh?


Conlusion to your fraudulant evidence is just that, FRAUDULANT.

The evidence provided for the Shanksville crater site has been proven fake and simulated.

No plane crashed in Shanksville on 911. Tell your friends and family, Flight 93 never crashed in shanksville,.

All the evidence prooves that no plane was found in the hole. THe evidence that supports a a plane crash was released in 2005-6. Plenty of time to fabricate evidence.

Ever hear of a 911 cover up? Quite easy to do when you are the investigating force.

Pwned.

Repeat the next threee lines.
Flight 93 DID NOT CRASH IN SHANKSVILLE
Flight 93 DID NOT CRASH IN SHANKSVILLE
Flight 93 DID NOT CRASH IN SHANKSVILLE.

[edit on 15-4-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by IvanZana


I seem to remember him saying that too actually. If not him, I know it was certainly stated by someone in the earlier days of this thread.

reply to post by CaptainObvious

Ultima..all your research, and you have YET to provide us to what you think happened.

DisinformationRule14: Demand complete solutions
DisinformationRule19: Ignore facts, demand impossible proofs

Way ta go Captain.

Stick with the sinking ship.

[edit on 4/15/0808 by jackinthebox]