FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

Originally posted by _Del_
Looks like the fires were hot enough to melt the floor of the train and they still recovered DNA. Aluminum (like the airplanes were made of) melts at 600 degrees centigrade, lower than the temp in the tunnel/train above.

Maybe you should read further down in the article where it states:

The bodies recovered so far were found 60 meters above the train. Officials said they were trying to escape when they were overcome by the intense smoke.

So, it wasn't the heat that killed them. 60 meters (almost 167 feet) above the train is going to be a hell of a lot less temperature than what you are trying to give us.

Most of the victims apparently managed to escape the car but were killed by fumes while trying to run up narrow stairs leading out of the tunnel, the cable car's head technician Manfred Mueller said.

Now, if they were able to identify the following body parts with DNA, then I'd listen to you. But, it really doesn't say.

Bodies and remains were stuck among parts of the melted train, ski clothes, boots and other equipment. The floor of the train melted, in temperatures estimated at over 1,000 degrees centigrade.

A melted train is also a far cry from a "vaporized" plane.

In November 2000, a tunnel-bound cable car in Kaprun caught fire, with the subsequent death of 155 persons. No passenger list was in existence and bodies were burnt to such an extent that morphological identification was not feasible. A full post-mortem examination was performed on all bodies. All bodies were positively identified within 19 days after the incident by DNA analysis.* Cause of death was determined to be carbon monoxide poisoning in combination with suffocation due to inhalation of smoke. The organisational aspects of processing are portrayed.
*emphasis mine

Forensic Study

The train was pretty well "vaporized"


EDIT:
Here's a "before" picture



[edit on 29-5-2008 by _Del_]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


ULTIMA, in another thread, we talked/discussed the possibility of a DVDR being substituted. It was the Airbus demo flight, of the late 1980s.....

It has nothing to do with the 9/11 scenarios....because, modern Flight Recorders are far more advanced, nowadays....or even ten years ago!!

Please keep the apples and oranges separate!!!

Thanks!!!!

reply to post by _Del_


I'm curious how they identified them all positively with DNA testing.

The final identification of the victims will take several days, during which DNA tests are carried out on the charred remains. Because of the high temperature reached in the tunnel many bodies have been reduced almost to ash.

www.wsws.org...

I wasn't aware that ash could be DNA tested? But, I do thank you for bringing this story to my attention. It does lend some credence.

Originally posted by Griff
I wasn't aware that ash could be DNA tested?

I wasn't aware that almost ash meant only ash -- and you took a pot shot at my reading comprehension

You don't need soft tissue for DNA analysis. You can get it from bone or hair as well. And the fire at the train was substantially hotter than required to melt aluminum.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Please keep the apples and oranges separate!!!

I will remember this the next time you and other believers try to compare things to the what happpend on 9/11.

Originally posted by _Del_
You can get it from bone

Are you saying that DNA can be extracted from a crematorium? Bone is left in that.

I'm asking. NOT taking a pot shot at your reading comprehension.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by _Del_
You can get it from bone

Are you saying that DNA can be extracted from a crematorium?

Not at all. A properly cremated body is cremated under controlled conditions ensuring that organic material (including that in the bone) is destroyed. I'm saying that the fires in the train or wreckage in either case were not necessarily such that prolonged heat necessary to produce that effect would be complete. In the train, this was obviously true as DNA was obtained from something, either bone or soft tissue left amongst what was "mostly ash". It is certainly possible that similar conditions would produce a similar result in an aircraft crash (which required lower temperatures to destroy the plane).

My initial post was in response to your question: How did we get DNA evidence from bodies without blood? and Ultima's more contemptuous:
"Yes it is funny how the impact and fire was enough to destroy the plane but bodies and DNA survived?"

I just gave an instance where a fire hotter than that required to destroy the plane was able to leave recoverable DNA. It is not the impossible scenario that it was presented to be.

Originally posted by _Del_
It is not the impossible scenario that it was presented to be.

And yes, I at least am man enough to acknowledge that you have done so. As I said three posts up. Thanks for the information.

reply to post by Griff


A star for you. Far easier to say, "yeah, but..." than it is to do what you just did.

stars and for a what appears to be a civil discussion.

nice.

youtube.com...

evrey thing is explained from the cuncussive blast eight seconds before the plane hit, the pentagon wreckage, (note: what the video does not say is what was carried out under the big tarp from the pentagon; it was a premade collection of files and server blades to numerous to be removed under normal sircumstances) all the way to the binladen tapes and United Demolitions.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


The blue tarp again? It wasnt a tarp, it was a TENT. Do a google search for photos of the Pentagon in the days after 9/11. There were blue "tarps" all over the lawn.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by IvanZana
NO PLANE, NO PASSENGERS.

Here's the list from the flight manifest of flight 93.

Can someone clarify for us who the hijackers are on that list?

reply to post by IvanZana


Read the heading...its a list of the VICTIMS.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by IvanZana

 

Read the heading...its a list of the VICTIMS.

Thats ok.

Is there any proof that there were any terrorists onboard flight 93?

sources please,

reply to post by IvanZana


Go here

www.911myths.com...

Bottom of the page is a link that takes you to a zip file, has copies of the passenger manifests for all four flights, and the hijacker's names are on them.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Bottom of the page is a link that takes you to a zip file, has copies of the passenger manifests for all four flights, and the hijacker's names are on them.

But didn't the hijackers use fake IDs and doctored passports ?

Do we have any video footage of the hijackers getting on the planes?

Lets be honest here:

If there was a video of the hijackers physically getting on the planes (keeping in mind video of them going through security, being listed on the manifest and passengers directly referring to them in subsequent phone calls made during the actual hijacking, from the plane itself isn't enough for you), you would claim they (the hijackers) walked out the back. If there was video of them entering the plane and sitting in their respective seats, you would demand video of the entire hijacking. If there was video of the entire hijacking, you would demand audio with the video. If there were audio and video of every possible moment, from every possible angle from security through impact, you would claim the video came from "the man" and should be ignored.

That's the thing: you’re invested in the conclusion, not the body of evidence. The truth club isn't asking intellectually honest questions. That is, questions they genuinely want to discuss and resolve.

The questions aren't really questions. They are a way to "keep the dream alive" and fool yourself (the royal you) into thinking there is more to discuss than there actually is.


[edit on 3-6-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
Lets be honest here:

BLAH BLAH BLAH, yawn......


Thats ok.

Is there any proof that there were any terrorists onboard flight 93?

2. Is there any proof or evidence that says that any terrorist was on board any of the flights and underwhat name and kind of i.d?