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FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

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posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 


When Operation Northwoods was declassified, 9/11 was found to be exactly according to Operation Northwoods planning. That plan was stopped by JFK against Cuba. JFK apparently was not going to be responsible the US bureaucracy needlessly murdering thousands of US citizens, as Operation Northwoods required to effect success of operation.

The writing of Operation Northwoods, compared to what occurred on 9/11, is identical. I will not accept that as mere conincidence considering who, in the Bush administration, had access the information in Operation Northwoods. Add to that PNAC, and those people are members of PNAC.

PNAC stated they needed a "new Pearl Harbor". It was not ascertained in the 1960s. However, it was certainly ascertained on 9/11/2001. There is no mistaking that as coincidence, because it happened the way Operation Northwoods planned for it to happen.




posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
Here's the list from the flight manifest of flight 93. Surely the victims' families would have spoke up, or the person themself, if they had not died. The list mentions the names and hometown of all the deceased. Out of this list of 45 people, have any been shown to be false? The story that the passengers didn't exist falls apart when you track down the people in the real world. Where did these 45 people go?


Rerouted and killed, nowhere near the crash site. What's 45 people to the powers that be? Absolutely nothing. What's 3000 people? Maybe some care, but not enough to stop the fiasco.

But these are just my crazy opinions and thoughts.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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It was no coincidence that all four planes were only partially full: The entire passenger lists from all four could have been put on one plane and flown out to sea to be shot down by some ship as part of the ' games '.

John Lear believes that at least some of the passengers are alive: The government officials and private people connected, like all the Rayethon people that ' died ' that day, and Burlingame, the pilot. I disagree;I believe that all of the passengers were murdered after the fact to make sure they never see the light of day again and expose the entire plot. ONE person that was on the list found alive would bring the whole thing down and expose Cheney and gang to the hangmans noose.

No, I believe that they have NO mercy, and all are dead. The MOSSAD certainly has zero qualms about wasting as many lives as needed to advance their agenda no matter what it costs us in money and lives: The Israeli's are cold blooded about using any means necessary to promote their causes and protect zionism . The shadow govt. here in the USA is made up of known far right wing nuts who drool thinking about Armegedon: It is the ultimate fantasy for them, and war is their game.

Together, the Israeli's and the Neocons, many of whom are dual citizens of both nations, are in the highest places in government. They have poisoned the well and now we have the mess we have: 9-11 an inside job, the media criminally negligent in reporting the truth, and a population more concerned about Britney's sisters bastard child than the state of the nation. God help us.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 07:01 PM
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It was no coincidence that all four planes were only partially full


For once, you are right.....

For the three months preceeding 9/11 the four flights averaged these loads...

Flight 11 39%
Flight 77 32.8%
Flight 93 52%
Flight 175 49%

On 9/11, their load factors were

Flight 11 51%
Flight 77 33%
Flight 93 20%
Flight 175 33% (although there were two other days where this flight was carrying even fewer passengers)

So one flight was flying with 12% more passengers than normal, one was flying at its average load and the other two were flying below normal......yep thats proof of a conspiracy...gotta hand it to you......

BTW, if you feel the need to double check, you will need to search through a few hundred BTS records........



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 07:41 PM
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I personally dont like to argue with arguable facts.

What i really want to know is....

Are we all in agreance that no plane crash in this photo?

Remember the photographer is standing where the fuel laden Wing and massive turbine engine slammed into the ground leaving the fueless,wingless,enginless, UnBURNed,unbroken grass dent.

[edit on 22-12-2007 by IvanZana]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 07:56 PM
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If those figures are indeed accurate, which I am in no position to dispute, then clearly the myth of underloaded planes is disinformation. But I still don't see a plane in the pictures either. Or evidence that anyone was aboard whatever crashed there.

p.s. we have all seen the picture several times.

[edit on 12/22/0707 by jackinthebox]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:12 PM
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Are we all in agreance that no plane crash in this photo?


Nope.

Jack, do you really think that anyone is going to publish photos showing human remains at the crash site???



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


It would be moot at this point anyway. All we would get would be some closeups that did not prove where they were actually taken.

I would like to see reports though if you have links, describing the parts recovered in detail. Furthermore, everyone who was at the scene that day should be able to give a definative "yes" or "no" as to wether or not there were body parts in the debris field.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:28 PM
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It would be moot at this point anyway. All we would get would be some closeups that did not prove where they were actually taken.


It would have been "moot" if close up pictures showing remains had been published ON 9/11, because people like you would say, well where is the proof they were taken there.

Face it, you want close ups that show body parts and plane wreckage but then again you want "proof" they were taken at Flight 93's crash site, you cannot have it both ways. I mean what kind of proof would be sufficient? Someone holding a sign that says "flight 93 crashed here"??




I would like to see reports though if you have links, describing the parts recovered in detail. Furthermore, everyone who was at the scene that day should be able to give a definative "yes" or "no" as to wether or not there were body parts in the debris field.


To my knowledge other than certain avionics that were onboard the jet, no one has published a detailed report of the parts that were recovered. That is something that would be done as part of a crash investigation in which they were trying to decide what caused the plane to crash. That really wasnt needed on 9/11/01. Now, the reports on the data recorders that were recovered have been published and available for some time.

As for the people at the scene, the recovery folks I mean, (not the idiot reporters that wouldnt know a Cessna from a Volkswagen) they HAVE given definitive "yes" answers about plane wreckage and body parts.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 



It was no coincidence that all four planes were only partially full: The entire passenger lists from all four could have been put on one plane and flown out to sea to be shot down by some ship as part of the ' games '.


Tell me Eyewitness86, exactly, how does partially full airliners equate into Neocon-Zionist inside job?

Are you suggesting that Raytheon bought up all the empty seats for whatever reason? I can't figure out how low passenger loads equals conspiracy.

Will you define "Neocon" for me?



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 




As for the people at the scene, the recovery folks I mean, (not the idiot reporters that wouldnt know a Cessna from a Volkswagen) they HAVE given definitive "yes" answers about plane wreckage and body parts.


Please provide link(s). I have heard a coroner flip-flopped on his original statement, but that's it.




To my knowledge other than certain avionics that were onboard the jet, no one has published a detailed report of the parts that were recovered. That is something that would be done as part of a crash investigation in which they were trying to decide what caused the plane to crash. That really wasnt needed on 9/11/01. Now, the reports on the data recorders that were recovered have been published and available for some time.


Actually I meant the body parts. They should have each been analyzed and identified. Even a soldier who gets blown up gets a body bag. Show me a picture of body bags leaving the scene. You would think the insurance companies would be demanding verification as well, before paying out on those life-insurance policies.




Face it, you want close ups that show body parts and plane wreckage but then again you want "proof" they were taken at Flight 93's crash site, you cannot have it both ways. I mean what kind of proof would be sufficient? Someone holding a sign that says "flight 93 crashed here"??


I did not say I wanted close-ups of anything. It's more about the angle of the photo. Without more of the scene as backround, a close-up proves nothing. Obviously a photo can be taken anywhere, under any circumstance. When a kidnapper provides "proof of life" he does not send a photo of the victim alone. He sends one if the victim with todays front page of the newspaper, to verify that the victim was alive at least a few hours ago.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999


To my knowledge other than certain avionics that were onboard the jet, no one has published a detailed report of the parts that were recovered. That is something that would be done as part of a crash investigation in which they were trying to decide what caused the plane to crash. That really wasnt needed on 9/11/01. Now, the reports on the data recorders that were recovered have been published and available for some time.


So if a plane is not where it is supposed to be crashed, there was no necessity for any further investigation, including explaining what happened to the passengers on that specific alleged crashed plane?

If they do not have the numbers off the plane they cannot prove a specific plane, alleged to have crashed, actually did crash. Any non-identifying parts alleged to have come off the stated model could have come off any same model. It does not prove the parts came off a specific plane alleged to have crashed. As I recall, the ID numbers of a plane can be on the tail, fuselage, or under the wings. Without that ID number, there is no conclusive proof it is the same specific alleged plane.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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Please provide link(s). I have heard a coroner flip-flopped on his original statement, but that's it.


Um, no he didnt flip flop on his original statement. He has been misquoted and taken out of context though....

Statements about wreckage and remains..



State trooper, Tom Spallone said the plane was still smoldering at 12:30. He said officials were trying to keep people from scene and confirmed that there are no survivors. He said the "debris field spread over an area size of a football field, maybe two footballs fields." The impact of the crash was so severe that the biggest piece of debris he has seen there is no bigger than 2 feet


...DEBRIS FIELD SPREAD OVER AN AREA SIZE OF A FOOTBALL FIELD..." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Pennsylvania) September 11, 2001



Eric Peterson of Lambertsville looked up when he heard the plane. "It was low enough, I thought you could probably count the rivets," Peterson said. "You could see more of the roof of the plane than you could the belly. It was on its side. There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud." Peterson called 9-1-1 and ran to the crash site but found only burning jet parts, pieces of clothing, and seat cushions


Pennsylvania crash carries horror into small towns Plain Dealer (Cleveland, Ohio) September 12, 2001




The plane left a crater 20 feet wide and 15 feet deep, churning up chunks of deep brown earth and scorching trees in the nearby woods. State Police sealed off a 15-square-mile area around the crash site as a crime scene. All that was visible to reporters escorted near the site were metal plane parts that glinted in the late-afternoon sun. "The biggest pieces were no larger than a phone book," said Pennsylvania State Police Cmdr. Frank Monaco


Pennsylvania crash carries horror into small towns Plain Dealer (Cleveland, Ohio) September 12, 2001




Dave Fox did go out to Skyline Drive, to the old strip mine, abandoned in 1996



Fox stepped over a seat back. He saw a wiring harness, and a piston. None of the other pieces was bigger than a TV remote



He saw three chunks of torn human tissue. He swallowed hard


www.pittsburghlive.com...

No, they didnt find bodies....what they found were pitifully small pieces of what used to be human beings...shards of bone..pieces of spinal columns...teeth...




Actually I meant the body parts. They should have each been analyzed and identified. Even a soldier who gets blown up gets a body bag. Show me a picture of body bags leaving the scene. You would think the insurance companies would be demanding verification as well, before paying out on those life-insurance policies.


And what makes YOU special enough to have privy to such pictures? As for the insurance companies, there was more than enough evidence that those people boarded that plane and were lost in that field that day. Not to mention I am sure that the forensic reports were made available. But again, we dont have the RIGHT to know that they found the lower third of Todd Beamer's spine or Cee Cee Lyles sternum or Jason Dahl's jaw....we dont need that info and Im not ghoulish enough to want to know what remains were found from which passenger.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 



Please provide link(s). I have heard a coroner flip-flopped on his original statement, but that's it.


Flip-flopped? Not exactly.

Quote mined? Definitely.

The movement's version:

"It looked like somebody just dropped a bunch of metal out of the sky."

"It looked like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped trash into it."

"I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there."

"I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop."


The actual version:

"It just looked like somebody just dropped a bunch of metal out of the sky," Miller said.

Most plane crashes occur at takeoff or landing, not in a field far from the victims' homes and families. The fact that no one on the plane was from western Pennsylvania made it even more crucial to Miller that the families had a local ally.

"This just happens to be a random moment where the ground met the plane," he said. "They have no connection here at all."

Officially, Miller was charged with identifying the victims, returning what remains were recovered and caring for the site of the crash. He personally identified 12 bodies through fingerprints and teeth. The remaining 32 bodies had to be identified with DNA testing.

Unofficially, Miller took it upon himself to meet as many of the victims' families as he could and call those that did not come to Somerset County.

Miller now gets photographs and other "little snippets of these people's lives" from the families and talks to some of them regularly.

"I figured as long as I was around they'd have at least one friend," he said. "I'd do that for anybody."

Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service." As a funeral director, Miller says, he is honored and humbled to preside over what has become essentially an immense cemetery stretching far into the scenic wooded mountain ridge. He considers it the final resting place of 40 national heroes.
Internet Detectives

Wally Miller himself:



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:43 PM
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So if a plane is not where it is supposed to be crashed, there was no necessity for any further investigation, including explaining what happened to the passengers on that specific alleged crashed plane?


Your question doesnt make any sense. The investigation was done, based on the data recorders, the airfone calls, the statements of the gate agents who handled flight 93, and the ground witnesses, they established that flight 93 was hijacked by Arab terrorists and intentionally flown into the ground during an attempt by the passengers to access the cockpit. Im sure if you got a copy of any of the death certificates for the crew/passengers it states "severe bodily trauma due to aircraft accident" What more do you want?

To this day, small parts of flight 93 continue to be found at the crash site and in each case, these parts are required to be turned over to law enforcement...and will continue to be until the case is officially closed (when we either capture Osama Bin Laden or verify his death).



If they do not have the numbers off the plane they cannot prove a specific plane, alleged to have crashed, actually did crash. Any non-identifying parts alleged to have come off the stated model could have come off any same model. It does not prove the parts came off a specific plane alleged to have crashed. As I recall, the ID numbers of a plane can be on the tail, fuselage, or under the wings. Without that ID number, there is no conclusive proof it is the same specific alleged plane


The cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder that were serially tracked as being on that airframe were recovered from the smoking hole in the ground in Pennsylvania. Face it, you are another poster on this board that will never accept what happened that day because no one came and escorted you to the crash site so you could see it for yourself.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 




State trooper, Tom Spallone said the plane was still smoldering at 12:30. He said officials were trying to keep people from scene and confirmed that there are no survivors. He said the "debris field spread over an area size of a football field, maybe two footballs fields." The impact of the crash was so severe that the biggest piece of debris he has seen there is no bigger than 2 feet


This seems to be in conflict with the theory that all the fuel was atomized and that there was no secondary burn, as is this...



Peterson called 9-1-1 and ran to the crash site but found only burning jet parts, pieces of clothing, and seat cushions


...This would also suggest that human remains would have been more than the size of teeth.




And what makes YOU special enough to have privy to such pictures?


I seek the truth. If I cannot see the pictures, then another independent investigator should be able to view them to confirm the facts. Perhaps you are not "ghoulish" enough to want to see the evidence, that is your perogitive. I however, do not account for evidence that has not been presented.

I have never seen any forensic reports regarding this crash posted anywhere.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by Boone 870
 


The coroner is lieing to the camera. The "Loosechange" kid is self-concious, but not lieing. I have done interrogations and know what to look for and how to interpret the signs.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
The coroner is lieing to the camera. The "Loosechange" kid is self-concious, but not lieing. I have done interrogations and know what to look for and how to interpret the signs.

I don't know if the "done interrogations" is true, but I agree with your assessment.

I find it very odd (disrespectful, considering who he is), that he would say "...after 20 minutes I stopped being coroner because there were no bodies..." regardless of context. "...It became like a giant funeral service..." is a strange phrase for a coroner to say, considering they are not men/women "of the cloth" as it were.

Either there were bodies, or there weren't. I suspect there weren't based on the way he talks about it.

[edit on 22-12-2007 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 11:50 PM
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He doesn't have to be a man of the cloth to say something like that. If you read his background you would see that he runs a funeral home in Shanksville as well, so I would think he knows what funeral services are like. And what was left after the crash weren't bodies, they usually aren't.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by Boone 870
 


Unfortunately, it looks as if Mortician Miller is talking out of both sides of his mouth. First, he found no bodies. Then he identified bodies he did not find when first arriving at the scene. He does not say where they were when he found them. Obviously, not at any crash scene, because he says they were not there. Where did they suddenly arrive from and when?

I would be curious how he took DNA samples. I have pertinent reason for asking.

[edit on 23-12-2007 by OrionStars]




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