End Times

Originally posted by shaell
In chapter nine of the book of Daniel, the angel Gabriel reveals that the countdown to the second coming will begin when Jerusalem is restored to Israel. The "old city" of Jerusalem was restored to Israel during the six day war in June of 1968.

According to Gabriel, starting from June 1968 there will be eight periods of seven biblical years before the return of Christ.

Therefore, the "endtimes timeline" stretches from 1968 to roughly 2024.

More prophetic proof?

Whoa that is freaky.

I came to the exact same date when doing some calculations based on the date of the construction of the Dome of the Rock atop the Temple Mount and the amount of "days" supposed to pass between the beginning and the end of the Abomination of Desolation. I came up with 2024?

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by shaell

 

I would really like to know how you have come to that conclusion of the interpretation of Daniel chapter 9 verse 21-27. It says nothing of what you say. It even says the street shall be rebuilt and even the wall. The wall has been there for along time and was not rebuilt in recent history.

My conclusion comes from a simple subject/object contextual reading of the verses as well as witnessing firsthand the exact fulfillment of these prophecies as they occured in our time.

With respect, the verses say nothing about a wall, but rather a "trench".

Its important to realize that these verses speak of both the first and second comings of the messiah. It gives two timelines, both of which begin at "the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem".

The first restoration happened after the Babylonian exile. As the prophecy predicted, 62 periods of seven years passed before Christ's first appearance on Earth. Just as Gabriel revealed: "After the sixty two sevens the annointed one will be cut off and have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary"...this happened in 69 AD, of course, when Rome destroyed Jerusalem.

Gabriel revealed that from the "decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem" there would also be SEVEN "seven-year periods" before christ comes, as well as an additional seven year period marked by three specific points of prophecy...This part of the prophecy is a reference to the second coming.

As I pointed out earlier, Jerusalem was again restored to Israel in the Six Day War for the first time since 69 AD. According to Gabriel's revelation to Daniel, Eight total periods of seven years each are "decreed" for Israel and Jerusalem following this event. In verse 27 of Daniel chapter nine, one of these seven year periods is described with three points of prophecy.

As it turns out these three points of prophecy occured exactly as Gabriel said they would between the years of 1993 and 2000, in the exact middle of the timeline. There are three and a half seven year periods on either side of it.

1993 - 2000 was a time of relative peace and prosperity (as opposed to the so-called "tribulation" forecast for these prophetic events).
The internet came of age. Clinton balanced the economy. Prosperity was abundant. Hope ruled. The Hale-boppe comet flew over. Another comet struck Jupiter in plain sight of Earth. The Phoenix lights marked the very central day that the "daily sacrifice" was cut off (March 13, 1997).

All of this prosperity ended when Ariel Sharon climbed the temple mount in 2000. The power structure of the entire world suddenly shifted. Bush was elected. Putin was elected. Foxx in Mexico. The bottom dropped out of the economy. It was all very sudden. Most missed it. But history recorded all of it.

When Jesus was asked about the signs of the last days he said to look for the "abomination of desolation" prophecy spoken of by Daniel. He said that when we see this occur we'll know that the end was "right at the door" and "let those in Judea flee to the mountains and not return to their homes".

So what happened in Judea after Sharon ascended the "abominable temple"? A new palestinian intifada began. Sharon walled up all of Gaza. Those palestinians that didn't heed the warnings of Christ are now trapped. And the situation is coming to a head.

Keep in mind that I'm not predicting anything here. I'm pointing out things that have already happened and are easy to confirm.

And these are just the warning signs.

That is why gabriel says we won't understand. We still are living in the 7th day or the day of rest. This is corroborated in genesis the Day of rest there is no evening or morning for the seventh day. The first six days are specific starting in morning for each of the six days and ending in evening each day making that distinction.

The seventh day is not, and there's a good reason for that

Revelation 21 tells us that the very instant that God conquers the problem of evil in man, he will create again.

There is an eighth day of creation coming.

I can't wait to rub it in Dickie Dawkins face and say Nyaaa nyaaaaaa

[edit on 30-12-2007 by Conspiriology]

It's refreshing to see at least a handful of people who are seeing the signs around them. Definitely the weather has given us signs and how about the one's in the Heavens too? Scientists are baffled by goings on there as well.

Does the following not sound EXACTLY like the days we are currently living in?

2 Timothy 3:1-5

But know this: difficult times will come in the last days. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the form of religion but denying its power. Avoid these people!

If it doesn't, you could very well be walking in darkness.

We are told the average human life span is 70 years old in Psalms. Jesus says the generation born during the beginning signs will live to see their complete fulfillment. Being so, some add 70 years to 1948 (when Israel became a nation) or 1967 (when the Jews regained control of Jerusalem). So, that gives us a window from 2018-2037 for all things to be fulfilled (the rapture, seven year tribulation, the battles of Ezekiel 38 and Isaiah 17, and the battle of Armageddon). I learn towards 1948 but there are some good reasons why some start the clock at 1967.

Here is something a friend showed me recently. I'll do my best to relay this information:

120 years: the time of warning. Genesis 6:3
The first Zionist movement declared the need for a Jewish state in 1897.
1897 + 120 years = 2017.

100 years: the promise of return. Genesis 15:13
In 1917, the Balfour Declaration is given by British mandate to allow the Jews to return to Israel.
1917 + 100 = 2017.

70 years: The completion of prophecy. Daniel 9:2
In 1948, Israel became a united nation for the first time in about 2,500 years.
1948 + 70 = 2018.

50 years: Jubilee and the return of possession. Leviticus 25:8
In 1967, the Jews regained their possession of Jerusalem.
1967 + 50 = 1917.

40 years: Testing.
Can't remember his explanation for this but he pointed out the camp David peace accords of 1978.
1978 + 40 = 2018.

So, this gives us a possible window of 2017-2018. Of course, this is not certain and this is not for one event but for the completion of end times prophecy to be fulfilled which takes roughly 7-10 years worth of future events.

Originally posted by shaell
According to the timeline of Daniel I discussed earlier, the "sixth" seven year period begins in 2012.

I was just reading the other day that the predicted polar shift of 2012 sounds a lot like the the trumpet judgment of Revelation 6:12-14. However, I can't find anything from a verifiable scientific source which talks about the earth's possible polar shift in 2012. There are signs (like the weakening magnetic fields) but I've yet to find something from NASA or another credible source. Most of the sites I found through Google look like whack jobs. Do you have any credible sources you can post for me?

If true, this would mean the church will have been raptured and the seven year tribulation would have started. Until I find something more substantiated, though, we just have to chalk it up to being "interesting."

Originally posted by shaell
In chapter nine of the book of Daniel, the angel Gabriel reveals that the countdown to the second coming will begin when Jerusalem is restored to Israel. The "old city" of Jerusalem was restored to Israel during the six day war in June of 1968.

Jerusalem was restored to Israel in 1967- not 1968. You probably got it confused with the 1948 return of Israel (which I do often!)

But just to offer a quick correction. In Daniel 9, Daniel stated the Messiah would be killed for our sins exactly 483 years after the rebuilding of Jerusalem. This was for the first advent- not the second coming. But I will defend your view in just a minute- I'm not criticizing you!

Daniel said 483 years after the rebuilding of Jerusalem the Messiah would be killed for our sins. This was a very well-known prophecy to the Jews of antiquity. When the 483 years had passed, they had their eyes wide open. This is why Jesus basically jumped their butts for not recognizing Him and even pointed out this prophecy to them. So, it was fulfilled to the letter and year upon Jesus' crucifixion just like Daniel prophesied.

But (this is where I defend your position! ), the Bible is well known for its dualism of prophecy. Many prophecies have multiple references. The abomination of desolation was prophesied twice (once by Daniel- this was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes and one by Jesus - this will be fulfilled by the Antichrist). Another one is the dualism of the Messianic prophecies. The Jews of antiquity couldn't understand how one set of prophecies told of a suffering servant while another set told of a conquering king. Of course now we know this has two fulfillments: One during Jesus' lifetime and then again at His second coming.

So, this is why many believe 1967 is the actual countdown starter and not 1948. But, Daniel also said after Jerusalem was rebuilt it would be 483 years (too long for all prophecy to be fulfilled in one lifespan like Jesus promised us) and that the Messiah would also die for our sins (he already did this!). So, there is a hole in the 1967 theory.

Personally, I'm hoping it started at 1948 so we can get off this rock!

I meant 1967. Thank you.

Originally posted by AshleyD
In Daniel 9, Daniel stated the Messiah would be killed for our sins exactly 483 years after the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

No disrespect, but The King James and NIV translaitons state that 434 years pass between these two events, not 483.

This seems to be the common misunderstanding of the prophecy. It's an interpretation originally set forth in the 19th century. It's the basis of of "Daniel's seventieth week" being regarded as "seven years of Tribulation", which is very misleading.

Please take a look at the verse and you'll see that it reads "after the 62 sevens, messiah will be cut off...". 62x7=434

This is why eight total seven year periods remain starting in 1967. Only one of the remaining "weeks" is described with three points of prophecy and these were all fulfilled between 1993 and 2000, right under the noses of churches who subscribe to the false interpretation.

Ask yourself this: If indeed, Daniel's "seventieth week" is a description of a "seven year tribulation" then why does Jesus state that the "Abomination of Desolation" event is the sign that the end is about to begin?
Why would Jesus tell us to look for a sign that the "tribulation" has just ended?

There's no end to the books published on this false interpretation. Its become standard church doctrine in many places which is a shame.

The fact that so many have made a buck off of it is almost proof enough of it's invalidity.

But the truth is free.

If the likes of Tim Lahaye or John Hagee had any true understanding of the prophecies, they'd be giving it away for free instead of selling books about it. They'd remember that Jesus's one outburst of anger and wrath was directed against the "money changers" that corrupted the truth of God's word.

reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d


Israel did come back into being, back in the time of the takeover of Babyon by the Persions. In the Book of Daniel, the prophesy of the end of the world is given to Daniel. He sees "One like the Son of Man." Jesus identified himself as the fulfilment of that prophesy. Jesus brings about the end of the world. There is no need for Israel to return, after that point. The prophesy has to do with God's Temple in Jerusalem. It was rebuilt, and finished in Jesus' time.
You do not have to wait around for the coming of the ant-Christ. He has been around for a long time. What is coming is the execution of God's judgement against the Anti-Christ. It is up to us to not be a follower of the Anti-Christ.

[edit on 30-12-2007 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by shaell


Run, don't walk from John Hagee, and anyone like him.

reply to post by AshleyD


Astronomer Phil Plait was on Coast to Coast on Dec. 27 and said not to worry about 2012. It is pretty much an arbitrary date.

reply to post by shaell


Daniel 9:25-26 states:

"Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah [Jesus] comes, there will be seven 'sevens' [49 years] and sixty two 'sevens' [+ 434 years is a total of 483 years]... After sixty-two sevens the anointed one will be cut off [a Jewish idiom for death]..."

I completely see how the "sixty-two sevens" interpretation comes about in the English translations because it omits the other set of "seven sevens" in the punctual pause of the sentence structure but I am a little confused as to the logic that is being used in this interpretation.

So He is supposed to come after 483 years but then his death is marked by a lesser time as 434 years? It would be like saying an expectant baby will be born in 2008 but that it will die in 2004. It doesn't make any sense to me. Can you explain because I'm obviously missing something.

And I'm reading from the NIV just to clarify. I do find your interpretation interesting, though. I'm wondering if this is a hint that the 70 sevens minus the 62 sevens are significant. I've never looked at it this way before but again, if you could please explain my predicament I'll love you and be your best friend forever!

Also, since we know through history and the Bible the decree to restore Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes in 444 B.C., converting to Biblical years we would reach about 33 A.D. with 483 years. Using Biblical/prophetic years with 434 years would bring us to about 1 A.D. for Jesus' death which we know isn't true.

As much as the KJV and NIV are great for us, the original Hebrew language didn't have the punctual pause that we do between the 62 sevens so I'm really confused about this interpretation. To me it is saying 483 years if you look at the Masoretic texts of antiquity. I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

[edit on 12/30/2007 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Why do you use Artaxerxes, and not Cyrus, to start your dating?

I also found this: Artaxerxes I. It lines up with my previous comment. Artie started his reign in 465 B.C. according to secular history. Ezra states in the 20th year of his reign (444 B.C.) Artie signed the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. So, 444 B.C. + 483 Prophetic (not solar!) years would come to around 33 A.D.

So, after taking secular history, the Biblical recording of the decree, and the original Hebrew language with the original sentence structure that is the best to go by, it would seem to say 483 prophetic years would pass.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Because Cyrus' decree was to rebuild the Temple and Artie's decree was to rebuild Jerusalem. Daniel's prophecy specifically states "From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah comes..."

This is also why those who think the clock started ticking in 1967 and not 1948- because Daniel specifically mentioned Jerusalem as "the sign" and not the temple or Israel. But for a very long time (and still today) some biblical scholars who miss that detail go by Cyrus' decree.


[edit on 12/30/2007 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD

They finished building the temple according to the command of the God of Israel and the decrees of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes, kings of Persia.

I could not find any variation here. I think some one is just trying to drag out the prophesy to fit into some historical dates that they find convenient.
Do you know where this idea of counting prophetic days into years comes from? It is from the 40 years that the Hebrews had to wander in the desert. One year for every day of their rebelion. This whole dating thing is bunk and my advice is to drop the whole thing.

reply to post by AshleyD


Excellent.

First we should ask why Gabriel would bother to split up the decreed 70 weeks in the first place. If the 62 weeks and 7 weeks were to occur consecutively then why not just call it 69 weeks? There's a reason for it just as there was a reason for Jesus stopping in mid sentence when reading from Isaiah 61:2. The reason is that there are two seperate advents of Christ. (As I'm sure you know, Isaiah 61:1,2 concerns both the first and second comings of Christ, yet doesn't skip a beat in describing them as seemingly one thing.)

Secondly, the exact dates for the decree to restore Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity, as well as the crucifixion or even the birth of Christ are highly debatable. I'd put more trust in the Biblical count of time than in modern man's approximations of these events, but that's just me.

Gabriel revealed that a total of seventy "weeks" [of years] were decreed for Israel... He said specifically that "from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the annointed one, the ruler, comes there would be 7 "weeks" AND 62 "weeks".

This means that the event of Jerusalem being restored to Israel would happen twice in the future and that two seperate countdowns would begin from it - one a length of 62 "weeks" and another a length of 7 "weeks". Being that there are two seperate advents of Christ it only makes sense.

What can't be denied is that this event (the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel) has definately now happened twice in history.

The "70th week" is set aside by Gabriel with three reference points of prophecy so that we might recognize it when it occurs. It occured in 1993-2000 so that we might know for certain that these are indeed the last days.

More importantly it occured in the exact middle of the timeline. If you draw out the whole timeline on paper you can see it. Start with 1967, and end with 2024. You'll see that three and a half "weeks" pass before the "seven year treaty" was signed in 1993. After 2000, you'll see that another three and a half "weeks" remain. You'll see that the fourth "week" is split in half by the "treaty week" of 1993-2000.

If you apply historical events to this timeline you'll begin to see an uncanny symetrical character to world events...such as the first and second WCT attacks and the first and second gulf wars both occuring on either side of the "treaty week".

[edit on 12/30/07 by shaell]

reply to post by shaell


I think Jesus may have stoped reading because someone made him stop.

reply to post by shaell


King Darius then issued an order
The temple was completed on the third day of the month Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius.
The priests and Levites had purified themselves and were all ceremonially clean.
For seven days they celebrated with joy the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because the LORD had filled them with joy
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Have you considered that the Danial prophesy could be fulfilled by using literal days?

Originally posted by jmdewey60

They finished building the temple according to the command of the God of Israel and the decrees of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes, kings of Persia.

I could not find any variation here. I think some one is just trying to drag out the prophesy to fit into some historical dates that they find convenient.

Good questions! And the only reason I know the answer is because I had to ask someone in the past, too.

Our answer is found in the Old Testament itself.

Artie's decree to rebuild Jerusalem: Ezra 7:11-26
Cyrus decree to rebuild the temple: Ezra 1:1-4.
Darius' decree to rebuild the temple: Ezra 6

They're all royal decrees given to the returning Jews but only one is a decree to rebuild the city. No need to twist things or pick and choose. It's right there for us in black and white.

Do you know where this idea of counting prophetic days into years comes from?

In about 8th century B.C. most ancient calenders switched from a 360 year to a 365.25 day year. So, a biblical or prophetic year is defined as twelve 30 day months. Compare the following verses for internal evidence:

1) Revelation 12:6 as compared to Revelation 12:14. The two verses compare 1,260 days to a time, times, and half a time (3 1/2 years) equaling 360 days a year.
2) Genesis 7:11 as compared to Genesis 8:4 and Genesis 7:24 as compared to Genesis 8:3. These verses list the number of months and days Noah endured the flood. The 150 days the flood waters existed lasted exactly five months from the 17th day of the 2nd month, to the 17th day of the 7th month, resulting in 30 days per month, or 360 days a year.