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Is Filled with the Holy Spirit and being Moral a Myth?

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posted on Dec, 14 2007 @ 08:15 AM
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God reigns in Heaven, Jesus has ascended back to Heaven and in their place on Earth; God has sent his Holy Spirit to be the go between, for humans and the almighty. If you wish to discuss the Trinity this Link is the thread for it. This thread is going to be about the Holy Spirit and how it forever alters your life and the Claim made by Christians that you must be religious to be moral.

Once you are filled with the Holy Spirit, this quite simply is an act of God, but seems like it is a fleeting thing, therefore one must question is it really from God? This thread also will deal with Morality relating to the Holy Spirit and to the religious in general. Many religious folk, including some who post here, claim a higher morality just because they believe in there particular faith.

What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit?


22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16

26"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. John 15:26

4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power. 1 Corinthians 2:4-5


The bible clearly states that the Holy Spirit is from God, believers in the Trinity say the Holy Spirit is a part of God, and when this Spirit enters into your life, you are fundamentally changed. That you are changed directly by the power of God himself, see scriptures above.

Effects of the Holy Spirit:

6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. Romans 12:6-8
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23


Also here are some definitions of the effects of the Holy Spirit:


The are supernatural works that manifest the presence of the Holy Spirit. Identifiable effects of the Holy Spirit.
The one who performs these supernatural works recognizes God’s spiritual presence in the happiness he experiences by doing them.
Others around him sense God’s spiritual presence by witnessing these good works.
Fruits of the Holy Spirit


There is more information, but I’m sure you get the idea. With the Holy Spirit in your life, it seems easy to live a Moral life, but is it? Are you really changed, or born again when this Holy Spirit enters you?

All Bible verses from Biblegateway.com

Are the religious any more moral than the non-believer? I say no, religions have cut a bloody path threw history, whether it be Pagans tossing babies into fires or rivers, to Christians destroying whole cultures in a convert or die mentality to Islam doing the same today, killing innocent people threw acts of terrorism. Religions IMHO have no right to claim a moral high standard based on there histories, and based on individual actions by professed religious people.

Here are some examples:

Serial Killer Robert L. Yates, Jr.
Spokane, Washington
A middle-aged father of 5, Robert L. Yates Jr., a decorated military helicopter pilot, and National Guardsman was convicted of 15 murders but suspected of as many as 18. The most prolific serial killer ever sentenced in Washington state, he now sits on death row.
He came from a solid, loving home with encouraging Support , a moral upbringing and Christian teaching from the time he could walk. He was an obedient child, a dedicated student, and a team player on the Oak Harbor High School football team.
karisable


And yet another:

Dennis: Air Force, 1965-1969; meat department for Leeker's IGA in Park City, and was an assembler at Coleman Co. (camping gear plant) from 1970-1973; home security company (ADT Security Systems) from 11/1974-07/1988 in Wichita, Kansas; compliance supervisor for Park City since 5/10/1991 making $16.62 an hour.Dennis was a Cub Scout Leader, and the president of the congregation of Christ Lutheran Church.
BTK


Now this list can go on and on, but I will end this thread with this piece I found interesting:

But even if a Christian hears nothing but pro-war propaganda from the pulpit, it is still no excuse, for Christians have access to the truth if they will just put forth the effort to look for it. They have a Bible they can read for themselves. They have the example of some principled Christian leaders who have opposed the debacle in Iraq from the beginning. They have an abundance of alternative news sources to receive information from besides the pro-war propaganda they get from the Fox War Channel and the War Street Journal. It is unfortunate that some Christians won’t read anything unless it was written by some other Christian they know and usually agree with. God forbid that they should read something by someone outside of their denomination, circle, or "camp" – or even worse, someone they consider to be a nominal Christian or not a Christian at all.

To justify their consent or silence, and to keep their congregations in line, Christian leaders repeat to their parishioners the mantra of "obey the powers that be," a loose paraphrase of Romans 13:1, as if that somehow means that they should blindly follow whatever the president or the government says, and even worse, that it overturns the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13; Deuteronomy 5:17), which is repeated in the New Testament (Matthew 19:18; Romans 13:9). The way some Christians repeat the "obey the powers that be" mantra, one would think that they would slit their own mothers’ throats if the state told them to do so.

Under what circumstances, then, is a Christian justified in or excused from killing another human being? Is it ever all right for a Christian to be a "killer"? As I see it, there are four circumstances under which a Christian could justifiably kill or be excused from killing: capital punishment, self-defense, accidents, and "just" wars.
Christian Killers


What say You?




posted on Dec, 14 2007 @ 09:36 AM
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The Holy Spirit, Chi, Prana, God energy, The Force, Ki, Reiki, The God Force, etc., are all terms for the same thing: energy from the discarnate dimensions, i.e., from the infinite and nonliving Light that many NDE-ers report seeing "at the end of the tunnel."

That energy is directed into the flesh from people who are in The Light on the Other Side. The more powerful Gifts of the Spirit come from large discarnate communities or Group Entities, typically of the yellow angelic energy of the Fourth Plane (Seven Plane paradigm). This is also where all the religious heavens or large cities of light reside. Those communities channel energy into their respective incarnate following and provide them with Gifts of the Spirit.

The reason why the Gifts in Christianity are no more powerful than those found in other traditional faiths, like Hinduism, is because all of them come from discarnate communities and not from an Ascended god or God in The Light. When you see miracles that go beyond those attributed to Jesus or Sai Baba, you will see the emergence of the new gods and Gods in The Light.

The idea that the Universe is geared to spiritually improve itself is referred to as processed theology.

The reason why The Golden Rule is found in all the world's traditional religions is because that is the tried and true way that one learns how to be moral.

As is derived from the conclusions of Near Death Experience research: morality is not subjective or relative, but absolute, and no one truly ever gets away with anything.


Life is very important because how we have lived our life largely determines how far we can go into the light

Source

[edit on 14-12-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Dec, 14 2007 @ 09:40 AM
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Yeah, the "Holy Spirit" makes people moral. That's why evangelists are money grubbing hypocrites -- they're supposedly full of the HS.

Having experienced the HS when I was a kid under the influence of mob mentality (in a church during service) and having experienced transcendental ecstasy from illicit substances during my 20's, they felt exactly the same.

The HS is emotional, it's chemicals dumped into the body by the brain being manipulated by its own thoughts.

There's nothing outside the human body causing it and it's a damned shame that people think that their own biochemical processes are caused by some invisible friend. If people would just enjoy it when it happens instead of being sanctimonious about it and thinking they've been chosen for something special -- the "special thing" that all people experience in their lives under different circumstances whether it be an acid trip or the birth of a child -- we could all get on with things without this religious nonsense holding back the advancement of the species through science.

Holy spirit. Hah. Holy hallucination, IMO.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 06:53 AM
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LDdragonfire..
Yes it is true Christians(I am one) believe at the moment we believed Christ was God's sinless Son who lived/died and rose again as sacrifice for all who would believe....and by prayer asked Christ to forgive us of our sins..something happened. At that point the Holy Spirit came into our lives. We all were and are sinners...just forgiven ones still fully capable of sins(that is well documented everywhere). The cases you site would be answered by Christian community either as that person(such as the serial killer) really did not believe but was acting as believer, or that God allowed that to happen for some reason only He knows. I believe there is an example of a serial killer that in prison accepted Christ. Changes in our lives are not instantaneous and probabley happen as quickly as we allow the Holy Spirit to work(reading the bible, praying, using gifts given by the holy spirit). If you want to hear my story feel free to U2U me. Some have described it a lot like a potter who forms clay into a nice vase. When we accept Christ we are the blob of clay..the Holy Spirit forms us into what is needed. You asked this is my answer..If you need bible verses to support this I can provide



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
The HS is emotional, it's chemicals dumped into the body by the brain being manipulated by its own thoughts.


The HS is not emotional. Coming from a background of knowing what you are talking about when it comes from feelings of ecstasy I can honestly disagree with you. I know your passion. As a teenager I was fully enveloped into a church youth group and felt that emotional "high" that made one think that they are holy, filled with spirit, religious, etc. The true holy spirit is none of those things.

I was always on the look out for what being filled with the spirit is, but it is not a feeling of euphoria. It is not a sudden thrust into some bizarre predicament where you feel good about yourself at all.

What being spirit filled is; is a realization of truth within ones self that they know the truth of all creation. That is a guarantee that one knows and is spirit filled. It is not about feeling good, but about knowing the truth.

I can attest for this because I know a lot of stuff I can't talk about and feel generally crappy about it all the time, but it is still the Holy Spirit.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 07:28 AM
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22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

and then, in so many ways.....the world steps in to stifle that love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control...
so doesn't religions.
Jesus teaches that his sheep will hear his voice, and only him will they obey...
and that a man cannot have two masters since he will end up loving one and despising the other.

but then, the religions are teaching that the wife is to obey the husband..... so that obedience to the husband can stifle that fruit.
and of course, all all got to work, another master to follow....another master allowed to stifle...
and then there's the fine gov't in all it's glory, who's turned our charity into an obligation so that so many of us would learn to despise such an idea....
I believe that there is a holy spirit, it does exist, and it can be life changing, but the world will quickly yank the newly formed seedlings from the heart if given half a chance. And, the religious institutions chose the power that a hierarchy would give them a long time ago over the truth that Christ spoke.



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