ya, and obviously by that article, reagan's trickle down economics seems to not be working too well, the money seems to tend to remain at the top, and used to create more money for the people on the top!!

I'm not saying to tell the businesses to do anything, simply warning them, and the population at large, they hey, unless you're a senior citizen, or handicapped and can't work, or temporarily unemployed, well, the aid will be cut in six months. that would clue businesses in that maybe they should be trying real hard to find a way to pay their employees more, and it will clue the employees in that hey, maybe they should be asking their boss for a raise, or finding a job that will pay enough for them to at least eat. it will also clue the health care profession, the landlords, the electric company, ect to reduce their fees! and well, if none of them chose to listen, well, the what thpeople might end up homeless, hungry ect, and society can put up with the headaches that causes. the businesses will have to put up with their employees find different higher paying jobs, or getting sicker because their no money for doctors, the healthcare industry will have to deal with less patient, maybe a few layoffs, ect. the landlords might find a few more vacant properties, ect.
it would be nice (and less stressfull) if everybody could just look at the real world and realize that hey, if we want america to remain america, we should do this without any threat from the government, but it doesn't seem that this is gonna happen. so, well....before we go down that road that I think we are going down any further, I would prefer to just give the warning and follow through, and let the chips fall where they may.
But, well, I will tell ya a story, a long sad story. but it's not for sympathy, or anything, it's to make a point.

about five or so years ago I hurt my foot somehow, I was being insured under my husband's plan at his work at the time. well, he got laid off, so I lost that insurance. I also found myself as being the primary earner in the family. So, trying to make ends meet, I was working most 50 hour weeks....and well, avoiding getting insurance from my company since even with the overtime, and his unemployment things were too tight for me to justify it. and well, I was getting the bills from where I was going to the doctor before he was laid off...there was no way we could afford that. So, needless to say, I really screwed the foot up good....which is why I say after lifting a few 35 lb packages, I wouldn't be able to walk much at all. my husband eventually got another job, and I got insurance from my company, but well, we had fallen behind on the payments and were trying to catch up, so, well, I was still avoiding the doctors....
eventually just the pain involved in driving to work was forming tears in my eyes...I soon just quit my job, couldn't stand it any longer.
We didn't need that much help then, but I went several times during that period to ask. Now, after a $20,000 operation, that I still owe on, and an ankle that is being held together by plates and pins, well, I have to be real careful about the kind of jobs I take. I tried one that paid quit a bit higher than the one I have now, but it required me climbing up ladders, after a week, I clued my boss in that hey, in all honesty, he was setting himself up by letting me do this, since because of the problem with the foot, I could just as easily fall from the ladder and break my neck. we agreed that I should just go my way and get a different job.
the point to this all is that well....we deny a little help from those who really need it, and this in many cases might lead to these same people needing a whole lot of help later on. hey, if it wasn't for a nice state senator in NY intervening on my behalf with the doctors, I wouldn't have been able to get that $20,000 operation and would be hobbling around on crutches still not able to walk, and then my dear, I would be officially considered handicapped, able to get all kinds of help from the government! if offering a little help will help people keep going and prevent them from needing help with everything later on, it seems to me, that it would be worth the investment.

[edit on 15-12-2007 by dawnstar]

The money doesn't stay at the top as much as you might think. There's no value in adding zeros to ones net worth. Money is only worth what action it makes possible. Sure, there's a few people that rather enjoy having giant bank vaults full of gold coin to go swimming in, but they are indeed a minority.

If providing a "little help" amounts to targeting the source of the increasing costs, I'm all for it. One of the greatest sources being the fact that every doctor, every hospital, and every provider now has to take out millions of dollars in medical malpractice liability policies the costs of which get passed on to the patients.

The system used to be a lot better. As you have seen it's gotten more difficult for some people lately which, in my opinion, is the intent and result of certain political elements. If we continue on that path, we end up taking the white and blue off of our flag. But if we can eliminate this detrimental interference, it might still be painful at first, but in the end everyone benefits. Well... everyone else.

>
I did finally read the article you had posted... I was hesitant to give the NYTimes so much as a page hit. They sure like to throw around the word income a lot, which in context is pretty meaningless. If I take in a million dollars and spend a million dollars, I'm in the top 1%, but still broke. I did like this part though... biased opinion reporting omitted...

At every income level Americans had more income, after adjusting for inflation in 2005 than in 2003...

[edit on 15-12-2007 by apc]

ya, too bad we can't import our healthcare, our shelter, our heat and electricity from china also....by the way, the increase in the costs of many of these things, if I understand right, isn't included when they figure the rate of inflation....
Ya, we can buy all that crap we don't really need at a cheaper cost....but well, I'm sorry, the cost of healthcare has skyrocketed, regardless of what they're saying about the rate of inflation....any gain that could be shown by that number would be overwhelmed by the increase in the cost of healthcare that's occured in the past couple of decades. and, hey, if doing something about the costs of malpractice still ensures that those that are truly harmed by negligent doctors, and drug companies, fine....but I am in no way for relieving them from responsibility when their royal screwups does real harm to people. But, I really don't think that would alleviate the problem that much. And, the sick thing about that is that quite frankly, I got better medical care when I was a kid than what they have now. Ya, they have all this nice new equipment, can find problems easier, but it still seems that that old doctor I had in my youth had the best cures when it came to my illnesses. That peice of wintergreen candy still does more to settle my upset stomach than those outrageously priced medicines that our doctor's today would perscribe.....with far, far, less side effects.

Import from China? My god woman are you mad? You think I want lead in my x-ray vest?!

I guess that would depend on what you mean by negligence and royal screw-ups. Doctors are human and shouldn't suffer because of it. That only hurts everyone else. If a doctor makes a mistake, that's life. The patient is lucky to even have had the opportunity for treatment. We take the cost of modern care for granted where a hundred years ago you probably would have had your foot cut off and I would have died from the flu.

A doctor that knows full well that what they are doing will cause harm should have their license to practice revoked and criminal charges levied. Pharmaceutical companies that profit from a drug they are aware will likely cause harm should forfeit all profits from the drug, lose their business license, and also face criminal charges.

But if a doctor's scalpel slips, the rest of his patients shouldn't have to pay more for his services because he has to pay a million dollars to one patient. That is where the majority of these suits come from. That is socialized malpractice, which I believe is simply a methodology to encourage socialized medicine.

There's also the illegal immigrant issue increasing costs, but anyway...

the outsourcing to china and using their cheap labor to manufacture all this crap is probably what is keeping that inflation figure down. I don't care if you can get stuff cheaper because we're exploited the chinese.....the chinese cannot deliver our healthcare, deliver fresh produce to the market, provide me with affordable housing, which are the things that do effect the cost of living. after all, I can live without the new japanese model car....but well, it's cold outside, I kind of need my heat.
the inflation figure doesn't truly reflect the real changes in the cost of living, since it avoids many of those commodities that I feel are necessary for living. that is what I mean when I said that hey, too bad we couldn't offset these things, since well, they'd be more in line with that infaltion figure, and there'd be less problems, but that isn't so.

I will say this much, for you cause though. I've lived in the State of NY and I'm living in Virginia now. NY is very, very generous with their welfare systems. Virginia isn't as so. And yet, well, I'd be tempted to say, at least in the area I am in, for the most part, the living conditions for the poor seem to be better in Virginia. That poor have free clinics, it doesn't matter so much if the government says you don't qualify, there's a good chance that one of these free clinics can help you instead.....we didn't have so many of these in NY and the one we did have was solely for family planning.
Much of the housing, at least from the outside, seems to be better than some that I've seen in NY. and well, it's less rent. The wages are higher, I am making more down here with the job I have, and remember, I had to be selective because of health problems, that I was making in NY doing a job that was more demanding. All two of my three kids have gotten first jobs that are actually paying them a living wage, or what I consider to be one. The schools are in a more impressive state than the ones that are in my hometown, which by the way requires far less money per taxpayer to run than the ones in NY.
Overall, even the poor seem to be getting a far better deal down here.

by the way, there is no way in heck that I could earn a million dollars in my lifetime, and well, if the doctor slipped, well, I wouldn't expect more in compensation that whatever would be lost monetarily because the effects his injuries caused. There is the sane, and the insane approach to things. Too bad, we've entered the insane awhile back

[edit on 15-12-2007 by dawnstar]

Yup. That's the wonderful side effect of people being free to be as generous as they please. They usually are, a lot.

And I agree compensation or restitution is always called for. When someone makes a mistake they still have to at least try to correct that mistake. It's the punitive damages that have gotten completely irrational. [Some] people seem to think, with a few suggestions from a lawyer, that they are entitled to compensation for the tribulations of life. They don't seem to realize just how lucky we are to have been born in the modern world, and their narcissism has far reaching impact.

[edit on 15-12-2007 by apc]

I think all the people in the government who get free healthcare shouldn't get it anymore and start paying like the rest of us.

Originally posted by Bluess

Originally posted by apc
I do not want to wake up each day and go to work just so that some truly selfish pile of dirt can go buy a new car rather than pay their child's medical bills.

I dont want that either, And since everyone is automatically covered thrue tax, I don't have to worry.

But you see there is a little side affect with the way the healthcare system works in Denmark.

It gives you the freedom to not worry about getting sick, It gives you the freedom to spend your income after tax, on whatever you want.

Instead of having to pay Private or public health insurance companies, who will do anything they can, to not pay you what is rightfully yours, should you ever get sick.

You like to pay the insurance after you recieve your check, with the possibility of not getting covered.
I like to pay my tax and be 100% sure, I will be covered no matter what desiase or illness i might get.

It is also nice to know that all your family and friends will never get in trouble with healthcare.

Either way, we both have to pay, i just prefer our method, alot more than yours. I find it more reliable and more humane.

Pretty much, instead of spending thousands for private health insurance that might pay for your doctors visit you spend a few hundred to get 100% coverage. Hmmm, sounds great to me.