Seal killers! Not very nice to watch *Warning for the squeamish*

This is a really well put together little vid.

Excellent images!

I'm not so sure about the message though. I mean it's a completely nasty thing to be doing, but is there some genuine rationale for doing it.

It not a sport, that much is for sure!

Canadians, any comments?

MonKey



P.S. Beachcoma please do not watch the above!!

I'm a Canadian.

No, seal hunting is not a sport, it's a harvest that puts food on peoples tables and money in their pockets. Like all the other animals of this Earth the seal is fair game because we have a use for parts of it.

I don't understand why anyone would object to that unless you're vegan and work for PETA.

Canada no longer harvest what is called the "whitecoat" pictured here:



That white fur only lasts the first two weeks of a baby seals life and then the hunt begins. Hunters are strictly regulated in Canada as to how many you can take, a quota, and the method in how they are killed.

One of the rules of the hunt is "Every person who strikes a seal with a club or hakapik shall strike the seal on the forehead until its skull has been crushed",
but you're also allowed to shoot them.
Most hunters just use the club though, a sort of whack em' and stack em', peel them while they're still warm.

You are also required to poke your finger in their eye to make sure they're dead before you start skinning them.

Rules, rules, rules......

Edit: You can read the "Marine Mammal Regulations" here:
www.canlii.org...

[edit on 14/12/2007 by anxietydisorder]

reply to post by anxietydisorder


Well AD - and you know i respect you and have you selected as a friend, being a person who hates any sort of cruelty to animals or slaughter thereof, especially in this fashion, i have to say that i feel strongly against the way this is done. Why don't they shoot the seal if it is that necessary to kill them or cull.

There may be rules but as we know rules are broken and hardly ever adhered to unless closely monitored. There are issues of sealers skinning them while they are still alive etc.

I have family who are Canadian, direct family - same surname etc, so i don't hate Canadians because of the sealing but what i do hate is the action or methods used. It is typically barbarism and should be changed to outlaw the club, if anything at the very least, and rule in guns or something more humane. But i guess there are not enough predators to check numbers naturally.

[edit on 14/12/2007 by shearder]

reply to post by shearder


I do hope you're aware that Canada is not the only country with a sealing industry. South Africa came under pressure from the rest of the world to stop the harvest of Cape Fur Seals because they were the only country still killing the babies under 12 days old. Canada stopped killing the youngest in 1987 and S.A. imposed a ban about 3 years later.

If fingers are pointed at Canada we also need to point that same finger at Sweden, Norway, Namibia, South Africa, and others.

In the Republic of South Africa, the Cape Fur Seals are considered "res nullius," meaning they have no owner, and therefore, they have no animal rights protection, as they are not considered Sentient Beings......

The Cape fur seal has been a protected species since 1973 under the Sea-bird and Seal Protection Act (Act 46 of 1973) but, ironically, this act was never written to protect them, instead its purpose was to control who killed them commercially. South Africa only suspended culling and clubbing of the seals in 1990. After their independence, Namibia has continued to club 60,000 baby 8-month old seals and shoot 7,000 bulls for their penises.

www.seashepherd.org...

I have no idea what Namibia does with 7,000 seal penises, but the rest of the animal goes to waste.

It's time more people realized that meat doesn't magically appear in little packets at the grocery store, but an animal has to be killed for us to eat.
Almost all beef and pork is exsanguinated after being stunned with electricity or blunt force trauma. The animal is still alive when it's throat is cut and hung up to bleed out.

Most animals in Britain are stunned. Bailhere's Comprehensive Veterinary Dictionary (1988) defines it as "producing unconsciousness of head in carbon dioxide, gas, electrical shock ... all of them aiming to allow the animal to bleed out while it is still alive. An animal that is dead before it has bled out will be unsuitable for marketing."

www.hedweb.com...

Large numbers of animals are slaughtered rapidly in an assembly line. Chickens are lifted by their legs when they are fully conscious. Their heads are immersed in water to make electrical contact, but some flutter and are not stunned. Chickens and pigs are subjected to scalding water to remove their feathers and hair. When stunning is not done properly or exsanguination has not progressed enough, a significant proportion of animals is burnt before going unconscious.

I can't call for the ban of sealing unless we entirely stop the slaughter of every other animal and start eating only plants to survive. I don't think that's a very realistic option at this point.

I think I'll go have some bacon and eggs now, it's breakfast time.....

Cheers AD.

I don't work for PETA and I'm rather partial to a bit of dead animal with my noodles and in China it's the animal that you have to worry about and then which part!

I respected the way the clips had been put together, and the chosen sound track worked very well with it.

As with everything there is two sides to the story, I was interested in hearing the other side - yes I was aware that nations other than Canada partake in this collection shall we say, but I know there is large Canadian presents here. Not to sure about the other nations.

Thank you for your post.

As with every side: it is being taken under consideration.

Monkey

Criminals on 'death row' will receive a humaine ethical and 'painless' death...

...Far more than these defenseless-creatures of the wild.

Good post Chikey!

~Ducky~

I work in the fishing industry, so I directly benefit from the seal hunt. That makes me biased.

The only thing I will say is that nobody complains when we let tons of salmon die by dumping live them in a hold full of slush (which is kind of cruel when you think about it). Then again, salmon aren't exactly cute.

I love animals, but my paycheque depends on their death.

Oh crap. Why did I wander into this thread?

*drags self out of the thread as fast as possible*
*must avoid clubs*
*night clubs ok*

reply to post by Duzey


murderer,sorry couldnt resist
well someone had to say it

seriously though i dont care about seals
as humans its natural to hunt them and kill them,
i doubt any of you have problems with Meat products
Cow,Chicken and so on?

reply to post by bodrul


But it's not like you cow hunting with a hammer is it, and then call it a sport?

Although Chicken baseball could be fun, those chicken sure can move!!

MonKey

I honestly can't see how anyone with a heart could possibly do that to something so adorable. Isn't it bad enough that millions of cows and pigs and chickens are being slaughtered every day? And now little seals? How much meat do we need? It's awful.

reply to post by Paresthesia


Do you enjoy fish? Or have a problem for those that do?

Just asking.

reply to post by anxietydisorder


AD i 100% agree with you. I am not questioning the reasons for the sealing but the methods. There are, as you pointed out, other countries who were/are responsible or guilty for this.

I guess i just hate the idea of cruelty to animals and I agree there are reasons for it being done. Now i didn't know about Namibia and they are on our door step - go figure. I guess Canada becomes a "target" because of its visibility in the news.

Understand i hold nothing personal against you dude.

shearder....

Don't worry, you and I have no problem between us.

We just stand on different sides of an issue, and our differences only open up the topic for further discussion. Any hot topic on the absolute rape of our planet is worth the time spent learning all sides of the argument.

I hope I didn't single you out in my replies in a bad way, but your posts just seemed to be the most worthy of a reply. Sometimes I'll be the "Devil's Advocate" in a thread just to push a topic.

Don't get me wrong, I have killed bunnies.
But when you grow up in a family that is close to the land and lives on the ocean, I think you develop a different perspective of an animal like the seal.

I think the club is very effective in stunning the young animal on a first blow, and in the past many of those animals would have been skinned alive. Current laws require several blows so that the top of the skull is crushed.
This simple change in rules has prevented countless pups bleeding and suffering on the ice after their pelt has been skinned off.


ChiKeyMonKey made an interesting comment a couple posts back:

But it's not like you cow hunting with a hammer is it, and then call it a sport?

Seal hunting is not a sport and I've never heard anyone refer to it as a sport.
It's a harvest or a cull.

And yes, we do kill cows with a hammer.
Line up an X between the eyes and the ears, one strong blow from a ball peen hammer will drop the cow to the ground and give you a chance to slit the throat. Stunner bolts have been around for a long time and are no different than the club.

A captive bolt stunner is a device used for stunning animals prior to slaughter. It can also be called a cattle gun or a stunbolt gun or a stunner. The stunning is essential to prevent the pain and suffering of the animal through the bleeding (exsanguination) process (which is itself necessary to prevent meat spoilage).

en.wikipedia.org...


I can't buy Paresthesia's argument.

I honestly can't see how anyone with a heart could possibly do that to something so adorable. Isn't it bad enough that millions of cows and pigs and chickens are being slaughtered every day? And now little seals? How much meat do we need? It's awful.

Let me show you adorable Paresthesia, and it's on the menu:







Are you willing to stop eating ???



I've been in the slaughter houses, and what we do there is no different than what happens on the ice or the seas.
Killing is a fact of life.

As much as we need to protect our environment, we need to eat to survive so that we can strive to achieve a balance that works. Sure, it won't happen in our lifetime, but it's something to strive for.

It's just too bad that so many species will be lost before we learn how to archive that balance.:shk:


Edit: bbcode







[edit on 18/12/2007 by anxietydisorder]

Originally posted by TheDuckster
Criminals on 'death row' will receive a humaine ethical and 'painless' death...

...Far more than these defenseless-creatures of the wild.

Good post Chikey!

~Ducky~

There is a HUGE difference between a human and a animal. In some US states it is still legal for electric chair, shooting, and hanging as a method for euthanasia for a human. Not sure about Canada.

I am not familiar with Canada's Animal Welfare Laws, but in the states acceptable methods for euthanaizing marine mammals are through barbiturates, gun shot, and CO2. Since the seals are being used as a food source that rules out barbiturates and maybe CO2.

I can see how a blow to the head is an acceptable mean of killing a seal. Its skull is probably not fully formed, and can probably be crushed fairly easy. If done correctly.
I guess I could make a case that there could be any where from 7 to 15 seconds of brain activity after the blow to the head, but that is just looking for an arguement on the other side. When you look at the costs, a "blow to the head stick" still is probably cheaper than a gun shot. And can probably be performed more accurately than a gun shot.

Like any case that deals with the killing or mistreating of animals. Most of the population only cares because they think the animal is cute. The point Duzey brought up about the salmon is a perfect example. If salmon were cute and fuzzy people would be up in arms, but there not. So they die a horrible painful death.

Originally posted by testrat

In some US states it is still legal for electric chair, shooting, and hanging as a method for euthanasia for a human. Not sure about Canada.

Just a note on the above:

The last execution in Canada was in 1962, two in one day.
Prior to those last executions Canada has executed a total of 710 convicted prisoners in it's entire history as a country.
Most by hanging, some by firing squad.

And you're right about the skull of a seal.
The ones that are taken are mostly very young and have a soft skull. The strike is supposed to be on the top of the forehead with enough force to render the animal unconscious instantaneously.
Larger seal taken by the native people are hunted with rifles the same as any other large game, but types of spears with bone tips were used in the past.

Sealing has gone on for thousands of years in the north, and I've yet to see a valid reason to stop a seasonal hunt that is important to many people and controls population problems. The laws and regulations, not to mention the extreme scrutiny sealers are under, ensures that the species is not endangered.


I want to ensure everyone that Canada has some of the strictest rules in the world when it comes to the protection of wildlife.

reply to post by anxietydisorder

I took 25 whitecoats (newborn harp seal pups). Back then, there were no regulations, or government laws that banned killing the baby seals. It was much harder for me to do that. When you approach the babies, they become scared and tuck their heads into their bodies to protect themselves. It was terrible. It hurt my heart. But I didn't have a choice. Either I followed through to become a part of my Dad's crew, or I didn't, and I would go home for good. But I wanted to be part of the crew, so I did it. On the way home, he didn't say anything about my first outing with him and his crew. My mother asked him how I did, and she told me he was impressed. "You done good,” was what he said.

- Orato: Seal Hunting Is My Life

Read that and tell me it's solely for the purpose of food. Tell me it's not a sport, an activity, a lifestyle just like hunting deer in the US. I don't believe in killing for fun. I believe in killing to eat but not for sport which this clearly is and you're lying to yourself to say it isn't.

In 2001, a report by an independent team of veterinarians who studied the hunt concluded that governmental regulations regarding humane killing were neither being respected nor enforced, and that the seal hunt failed to comply with Canada's basic animal welfare standards. Shockingly, the veterinarians found that in 42 percent of the cases they studied, the seals had likely been skinned alive while conscious.

Parliamentarians, journalists, and scientists who observe Canada's commercial seal hunt each year continue to report unacceptable levels of cruelty, including sealers dragging conscious seals across the ice floes with boat hooks, shooting seals and leaving them to suffer in agony, stockpiling dead and dying animals, and even skinning seals alive.

In regards to the quota set by the government. They do not enforce the law.

In 2002, the Canadian government knowingly allowed sealers to exceed the quota by more than 37,000 animals. Sealers had already killed substantially more than the quota allowed by May 15 (the regulated closing date of the seal hunt), and yet the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans chose to extend the sealing season until June. In 2004, sealers killed close to 16,000 seals more than the permitted quota. Again, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans extended the sealing season until well into June.

The last two quotes are from the Humane Society of the United States website. I suggest you read the article I linked to. It will answer all questions and address all misinformation.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by Paresthesia]

Originally posted by Paresthesia
Read that and tell me it's solely for the purpose of food. Tell me it's not a sport, an activity, a lifestyle just like hunting deer in the US. I don't believe in killing for fun. I believe in killing to eat but not for sport which this clearly is and you're lying to yourself to say it isn't.

I snipped your post because I believe that it's merely emotion. Damn, do you think that the steak on your table came from NOT killing an animal? What about ANY meat. Pig, chicken(worked in one of those slaughterhouses), Lamb, Oh no, not the cute little lambs? Yup, them too and they're damn tasty.

In 2001, a report by an independent team of veterinarians who studied the hunt concluded that governmental regulations regarding humane killing were neither being respected nor enforced, and that the seal hunt failed to comply with Canada's basic animal welfare standards. Shockingly, the veterinarians found that in 42 percent of the cases they studied, the seals had likely been skinned alive while conscious.

Really? WHAT "independent team of vets"? One sponsored by PETA?

Parliamentarians, journalists, and scientists who observe Canada's commercial seal hunt each year continue to report unacceptable levels of cruelty, including sealers dragging conscious seals across the ice floes with boat hooks, shooting seals and leaving them to suffer in agony, stockpiling dead and dying animals, and even skinning seals alive.

Can you see the crap now? Parliamentarians, people of government, are witnessing the seal hunt? I wish they were but it's quite unlikely. Journalists? Maybe. Scientists? Those would be the ones to answer my question above that you ignored.

The last two quotes are from the Humane Society of the United States website. I suggest you read the article I linked to. It will answer all questions and address all misinformation.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by Paresthesia]

The Humane Society? Of the United States? Do they know anything about the Harp seal? A little bit of projection there I would think.

NOW, will you answer my question from above? "Do you enjoy fish? Or have a problem for those that do"?

It's not a difficult question.

Originally posted by anxietydisorder
shearder....

Don't worry, you and I have no problem between us.

Cool bro - pleased about that.

We just stand on different sides of an issue, and our differences only open up the topic for further discussion. Any hot topic on the absolute rape of our planet is worth the time spent learning all sides of the argument.

For sure, that's why we are here and if we all agreed on everything then it sure would be boring lol.

I hope I didn't single you out in my replies in a bad way, but your posts just seemed to be the most worthy of a reply. Sometimes I'll be the "Devil's Advocate" in a thread just to push a topic.

Yes i know what you mean and no, i didn't feel singled out hehehe - i have come to know your posting style and I have learned i am not the only person on planet earth with an opinion whether wrong or right - it's all good AD bud. At least we can prove it is possible to disagree and keep it civil! Kudos mate.

Well clearly this is turning into a debate. No, not really a debate; more like you just mocking and provoking me.

Yes I am speaking entirely from emotion, not logic. And emotion vs. logic debates get nowhere and feelings (particularly mine) get hurt, so I'm not answering your question because I know you're going to bring up a barrage of points, and I'll have to put effort into writing up a rebuttal.

All I was doing was sharing my opinion on hunting seals which I believe is wrong, and I'm confused as to why someone would even try to convince someone that clubbing animals to death isn't wrong, but whatever floats your boat.

I'm out.