FEMA says melted steel at WTC 7, page 2

reply to post by billybob

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And your heat source is???...Cant be a nuc. You see you have one small..nagging.. little problem with that..You have survivors. Survivors that were standing right on top of where the "nuc" would have gone off. If they were not vaporized by the intial blast...They should haved died by radiation poisoning. Hmmm..All of them are still alive. SOOoo that leaves what as a heat source?

Prove to me that the gypsum dust would have chocked out the fire? I have never seen it happen. You??

The intial fires were close to the middle of the buildings. Half on top...Half on bottom. You pile it all in the foot print of the original building and your are telling me there is no fuel? The tetrahedron is still intact. Nothing is there to break it. Plus the fact you have just increased the surface area-to-mass ratio.


[edit on 15-12-2007 by six]

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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I belive that the elevated levels were due to the signs were they not? Plus you have to account for the fact that you had a 110 story office building with all of its contents. Thats a awful lot of material to consider. I know that certain watches, to achieve luminesence, use some sort of radioactive material. I dont know...But you still have survivors that were in the building that are still alive. And dont show signs of poisoning.

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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Depleted uranium is not used in fission devices. Therefore a nuclear device would not be the source of the depleted uranium. This site show a interesting use for it in teeth

www.hps.org...

Originally posted by six
reply to post by billybob

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And your heat source is???...Cant be a nuc. You see you have one small..nagging.. little problem with that..You have survivors. Survivors that were standing right on top of where the "nuc" would have gone off. If they were not vaporized by the intial blast...They should haved died by radiation poisoning. Hmmm..All of them are still alive. SOOoo that leaves what as a heat source?

Prove to me that the gypsum dust would have chocked out the fire? I have never seen it happen. You??

The intial fires were close to the middle of the buildings. Half on top...Half on bottom. You pile it all in the foot print of the original building and your are telling me there is no fuel? The tetrahedron is still intact. Nothing is there to break it. Plus the fact you have just increased the surface area-to-mass ratio.


[edit on 15-12-2007 by six]

you know that doctors who rushed to the scene were surprised to find....very few casualties, and hardly any bodies? just checking.

i've seen dust choke a fire when i shovel dirt onto one. as a fireman, you may not know that putting non-flammable dust on top of a fire will result in the oxygen not reaching the fuel/spark.

this, "half on bottom" fire you claim existed. should not the lobby have been smoke filled if there was a fire on the bottom? as far as i know, there was only a huge explosion and collapse down in the sub-levels. it was all over the emergency radio, and rescue workers were dispatched. there were no reports of fire in the lower levels, that i know of. if there were fires there, i would love a reference.

BTW, you may want to look into the incidence of blood cancer and respiratory illness that rescue workers have been DYING FROM.

i really don't get how you increase surface to mass ratio when you turn a 1300+ ft. structure into a knee-deep pile. sounds kinda like reverse thinking to me.

What OSHA had to say after analysing possible risks to workers on the site after 9/11 here

Ionizing Radiation

A survey of the rubble pile was conducted on 10/22-10/23 to check for latent radiation with particular attention to alpha radiation. Results show no elevated levels of concern from either known building latent radiation sources or any terrorist origin source materials.

Lawrence Berkeley National Lab analysed the tritium level in water under the rubble in this report here

Abstract
Traces of tritiated water (HTO) were detected at [the]World Trade Center WTC) ground zero after the 9/11/01 terrorist attack. A method of ultralowbackground liquid scintillation counting was used after distilling HTO from the samples. A water sample from the WTC sewer, collected on 9/13/01, contained 0.174 plus or minus 0.074 (2s) nCi/L of HTO. A split water sample, collected on 9/21/01 from the basement of WTC Building 6, contained 3.53 plus or minus 0.17 and 2.83 plus or minus 0.15 nCi/L, respectively. Several water and vegetation samples were analyzed from areas outside the ground zero, located in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and Kensico Reservoir. No HTO above the background was found in those samples. All these results are well below the levels of concern to human exposure.

The report details the possible sources of that tritium but note it was only a 'trace' amount well below levels of concern to organisms.

reply to post by billybob

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i've seen dust choke a fire when i shovel dirt onto one. as a fireman, you may not know that putting non-flammable dust on top of a fire will result in the oxygen not reaching the fuel/spark.

I refuse to respond to this as I find this insulting to my intelligence and the others in this discussion.

this, "half on bottom" fire you claim existed. should not the lobby have been smoke filled if there was a fire on the bottom? as far as i know, there was only a huge explosion and collapse down in the sub-levels. it was all over the emergency radio, and rescue workers were dispatched. there were no reports of fire in the lower levels, that i know of. if there were fires there, i would love a reference.

I never said that there were fires below. What I ment was that you just exposed the lower half of the buildings contents to fire when it collapsed into a little pile.

BTW, you may want to look into the incidence of blood cancer and respiratory illness that rescue workers have been DYING FROM.

And this has what to do with those who would have been standing DIRECTLY above this "nuclear" device upon it going off? I have recently seen a interview with the survivors that were in the building. They should not be alive either from being in the direct path of the explosion or due to radiation poisoning.

i really don't get how you increase surface to mass ratio when you turn a 1300+ ft. structure into a knee-deep pile. sounds kinda like reverse thinking to me.

It is really quite simple. Take, for example, a 2x4. It has a set amount of surface area in relation to its mass. Now ground that same 2x4 up into particles. You have just increased the amount of surface area that could be exposed to fire. It is the surface area of all the little particles now you have to take into account for. Smaller particles burn alot easier and alot faster because there is more surface area exposed. You have increased the surface area exposed in relation to its original mass.






[edit on 17-12-2007 by six]

[edit on 17-12-2007 by six]

Originally posted by six
reply to post by adjay

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There was plenty of fuel once the building collapsed. All of the contents were now exposed to the fires that were going. Fires that before were just limited to the fire floors themselves. O2 could have come from anywhere such as sewers,utility chases, subway tunnels..etc. The fires would have gotten hotter once you would have put the insulating barrier on top of them. The barrier being the collapsed building. The pile was very hot for 100+ days. Fire fighters were regularly having their boots melted from just working on the pile. Fire boots are made not to melt, so the temps on the pile would have to have been quite high.

Since implosion literally decompresses as a building drops, how were fires staying alive with all that heavy decompression going on? There was no air and thus no oxygen.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by OrionStars]

reply to post by OrionStars

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As I explained before, The building DID NOT collapse into a nice little air tight pile. There are voids through out any rubble pile. Then you have to factor in any type of air source, from the sewers and steam lines, subway tunnel, other utilities, and even air from the outside atmosphere. There was nothing there to put out the fires.

Edit to add: The building did not explosively decompress. There are no outward signs of any explosion, let alone one big enough to totally remove the O2 from the atmosphere in the building to put out the fires.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by six]

[edit on 17-12-2007 by six]

^But you have to admit most of the building was turning to dust and being forcefully ejected, not exploded, outwards?

I really see a fire having a hard time staying alight during all that destruction and ejection and pulverization of building contents.



That huge billowing cloud is the buildings contents, the fuel for the fire. How did it survive the rest of the collapse when it appears the section that was on fire is already destroyed and its contents ejected? By the time the collapse finished all that was left was steel and a fine dust.

Even if the fire did survive, and smolder a while, it's not going to melt steel no matter how you look at it.

reply to post by Pilgrum

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And the EPA said that the air was good to breath. Are we really to trust these government agencies? Especially when one has already been proven to lie about it?

reply to post by OrionStars

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Proof please the the atmosphere in the WTC during collapse was a oxygen deprived atmosphere. I dont see a explosion big enough to temporarily remove the O2....There is not a vacuum created...Just how was the atmosphere O2 deplete?

reply to post by ANOK

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But you have to admit most of the building was turning to dust and being forcefully ejected, not exploded, outwards?

I would not say dust, because there were large pieces that needed cranes for removal. I would agree about the forceful ejection. I dont think that the force of the air and contents being expelled outward would be enough to extinguish the fires. What you have to remember is that everything on those floors was on fire. From the chairs, the carpet, computers, paper,..everything. Alot of this material was petroleum based. It would not have simply just blown out. Let me explain it this way. While on structure fires we employ the use of large fans to ventilate structures. You have to be very careful when these are used because if used at the wrong time you can intensify the fire, and spread the fires to parts that before, were not involved. You basically are force feeding air to the fire. Kinda like a turbo a car.

That huge billowing cloud is the buildings contents, the fuel for the fire. How did it survive the rest of the collapse when it appears the section that was on fire is already destroyed and its contents ejected? By the time the collapse finished all that was left was steel and a fine dust

I dont think all of the buildings contents were ejected. In other building collapses, such as in S.F. during the earthquake, the contents of the floors were not ejected. Granted these were much smaller buildings, but I think the same principles would apply.

Even if the fire did survive, and smolder a while, it's not going to melt steel no matter how you look at it.

I dont think it just smoldered awhile. I think it was actively burning. You had 90+ floors that were not involved compacted into s small area, exposing it the fires that were already in existence. If it just smoldered for awhile, you would not have had elevated temps for 100+ days. The pile would have cooled alot faster.

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