US: thanks for destroying our world!

Thanks for proving my point: America does not want to change as its (weak) economy is of greater importance than the right of existence. Self-compassion is a bad thing. The poor us, Americans, get the blame again, doesn't impress me at all. The fact is that the US does not participate in solving the problems as the biggest developed polluter in this world. The American people are responsible for this as they simply don’t want to change their lifestyles.

In reality, I mean a vast group of Americans, which I simply state as Americans. If you feel insulted, you probably live the polluting life I’ve been describing. It was not my intention to insult anyone though. Side-note: Many Americans are good in stigmatizing Muslims, yet when it comes to Americans it’s suddenly a very bad thing.



Perhaps it’s good to experience how millions of Muslims feel when they are labeled as terrorists by Americans.

It’s simply pathetic to come up with statements that China should change. They should, yes. However, the supreme Western country of this world should take a leading position. When it comes to war, natural resources, or anything in this world of importance, America wants to lead. Now something not so nice and easy is going on, we’re starting to blame China for being a pollution country so we don’t have to change ourselves? Try again.





In the free country of America you can choose to purchase a car free of choice. The government does not force you to purchase one of the most polluting and fuel consuming type of cars available.

I’ve worked for a subsidiary of General Motors. Let me ask you this: why are cleaner and more efficient cars manufactured here in Europe, while this is not the case in the US? Because many Americans are not willing to change their bad habits so there’s no need to change anything for carmakers. Again, no carmaker forces you to purchase a SUV.



That's the ideal situation. However, that's also an impossible ideal to achieve these days, with our living conditions. It does not mean that you should not try to live a cleaner life. I myself purchase so-called green electricity, I ride my bike everyday - living in a country of approximately 20 million inhabitants and 15 million bicycles. Additionally, I have solar collectors and use rainwater to flush my toilets. Moreover, I drive a fuel-efficient American car. A good start I would say.



They do, I’d like to stress you to re-read my OP. In contrast to the US, they are willing to achieve changes. However, we cannot expect them to be as innovative as we are in inventing solutions as they simply lack the know-how due to a lack of education, technological knowledge and the fact that they are not as developed as we, Westerners, are. Therefore, we need to help China and other developing countries.



I tend to disagree and I am among the vast majority of civilians, politicians and more importantly: scientists who have proven that we are responsible for the increased effect of global warming. Even your president admitted it after years of denial.



The US simply does not co-operate in trying to solve our global problem. Bali is proving that right now. Therefore, I can sarcastically thank America for destroying our world. After all, it’s the biggest Western polluter that does not want to change. I do offer my apologies to those Americans who feel insulted and don’t live this ‘’American polluting life’’.

Negative , the answer to this question lays within a future dipicted only to those who see the real truth & view through open idea s, media reports & inclusive reporting ,

Take the rose tinted specticles off & witness whats already taken place

Another thing which alot of countries found annoying was the statement by the US delegation to the UN Conference, in which they basically said that the US wanted to lead and everyone else should just fall in line.

How arrogant is that?

Location: European Union?

Why don't you look in your own backyard?



I'm shouting Bollocks!!



This is exceptional:



German cars 'top polluters' 15/11/2007


MAP-The Carbon Monitoring For Action Web site has Web tools for sorting and mapping data about global warming pollution from power companies around the world





Oh dear... Australia is the worst per capita?

Holy Smokes! World's worst polluters list is out

Anyone notice the slight problem here? China and India are not bound by any targets because they are developing...

This is a worry when you consider the dramatic increase in China's emissions:


wiki
[11] China now no. 1 in CO2 emissions; USA in second position




No, I am not admitting ^
They are your words.

My point is, you cannot blame every single USA citizen for the decisions the Government makes

Get it?




[edit on 14-12-2007 by Thurisaz]

[edit on 14-12-2007 by Thurisaz]

Well they certainly dont discourage it.

To me, its very, very simple: Petrol prices.

That's why the poor fuel guzzling cars are in America and the cleaner fuel effiecient cars are in Europe.

ITS MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH PER GALLON in Europe. Out of the petrol price in my country, 60-70% is goverment taxes (I MEAN WTF!!!).

We cant afford anything but fuel effiecient cars

So in short: Double the price of fuel in America, problem solved. Lots more will look into more effecient cars.

I'm just wondering, if it wasn't for american innovation, where would we be?

ya, our industrialized nations causes pollution, but by what I've read england wasn't that clean when they were burning coal. Compared to that, well, there's been a massive improvement. and well, horse and buggies, and the wastes that the horses would leave on the streets....well, that couldn't have been too healthy either. Neither is burning wood to stay warm. And, well, we all enjoy our electricity don't we?

I'm just wondering, would we really be better off with all this technology? Or, maybe that world without technology would make our global warming scare seem like child's play.

Get off the blaming of america bit, if it wasn't for american, it's quite possible that we all wouldn't be enjoying all this nice luxury living to begin with.

by the way, if you double the price of fuel, umm....I make so little, the cost of getting to work, in my nice fuel efficient car would probably eat up enough of my paycheck to make work not worth it...so well, go ahead, make my day....and well, there won't be any taxes paid from the job I am working!



[edit on 14-12-2007 by dawnstar]

Nope, they can't. It's always the fault of the US. If it wasn't for us, and our horrible, horrible ways, things would be so much better.

Remember, Clinton didn't sign Kyoto. Even he knew that it would shoot the US economy in the head. Kyoto gives India and China a pass since they are "developing".

Didn't I read that in a few years, China will have more coal burning plants than anyone else? It would be the same as if EVERY American driving the worse SUV available.

These developing countries have something we didn't have when we were developing....all those chemicals that we've come up with in the past century. we don't even know what the real effect on the human body is from these chemicals, and they are playing with them like they are cotton candy or something, then sending their wares out to the world to consume.

I do not agree with that at all, and i really think others should lay of this childish behavior as well. afterall... my dad can beat your dad...doesnt get us anywhere.



This isnt about shooting your economy in the head or about china not having to lower their emmissions. What exactly do you think? that Americas economy is only based on fossil fuels?


Source

This would be a good subject to make changes in, to make the american economy better, for examble.



I dont know what predictions you've read, but it still doesnt justify any nation to do nothing our refuse to participate in this "Global issue".

Ok, shall I?

Average CO² emission in Europe: 160g/km, in 2008 this should be reduced to 140 g/km. The current average CO2 emissions for the USA is approximately 260g/km or even higher. Almost double the emission of European cars



Average emissions of European sold cars:
1 PSA Peugeot Citroen 142
2 Fiat 144
3 Renault 147
4 Toyota 153
5 Honda 154
6 General Motors 157
7 Ford 162
8 Suzuki 166
9 Volkswagen 166
10 Hyundai 167
11 Nissan 168
12 Mazda 173
13 BMW 184
14 DaimlerChrysler 188

US emissions are a complete joke. Even the most polluting German cars are less polluting than the average American car. The list stated above is about European sold cars e.g. General Motor's European Subsidiary Opel.

www.csmonitor.com...

we did do something, now let's see if our crazy president will sign it into law!!

matter of fact, I kind of think we were one of the first ones to do something, way back in the 70's.......

reply to post by dawnstar

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I do not agree with that at all, and i really think others should lay of this childish behavior as well. afterall... my dad can beat your dad...doesnt get us anywhere.



This isnt about shooting your economy in the head or about china not having to lower their emmissions. What exactly do you think? that Americas economy is only based on fossil fuels?


Source

This would be a good subject to make changes in, to make the american economy better, for examble.



I dont know what predictions you've read, but it still doesnt justify any nation to do nothing our refuse to participate in this "Global issue".

The thing here though is that virtually every nation is willing to do something, except one, the USA, who wants to do it their way (and have everyone else do it their way as well) so they don't "hurt their economy".

Now, tell me, is global climate change not going to hurt your economy much worse than just trying to cut emissions? Honestly, the USA is so short sighted it is unreal....

It is certain that we will loose the battle with the climate change. Ok, we can argue that we are not the cause of the climate change, but what we cannot argue is that Climate change is happening.
I believe that the initial computer modelling were correct - we supposed to change the climate with 1-2 Celsius degrees in 100 years. But something did not go quite right - a computer output will depend on the input data. What is strange is that the scientists "updated" the climate change data every single year in the last 3 years , reducing the time-scale about 3-5 times each time . From 1000 years to north-pole ice melt predicted in 2000 now they admit 2012 ice-free. This is not the fault of the computer-modelling prediction. There is something else - not accounted in the equations. Some people believe it is Nibiru , some believe it is the crossing of our solar system over the galactic plan of Milky Way .
It is easy to blame the "Sun" for all the trouble , and it is right to do so. But the Sun only interacts to a more complex galactic system. My prediction is here on ATS that 2008 is the last normal year we will see. We have to be realistic - we cannot revert the climate change. We cannot calm down our sun ( look @ www.spaceweather.com ) , and the struggle is survival.
US. is not participating to the Kyoto protocol because they know the climate change is 50 times faster that it should be if produced by man . New Orleans proved how Hollywood society is reacting on major disaster. Simply - not everyone behaves like human during the natural disaster. Maybe this is why silence is the best choice at this point.
God bless us all....

Sty
eastern europe

[edit on 14-12-2007 by sty]

reply to post by stumason

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I'm not sure about the US being short sighted - more likely, they just don't believe the hype about man made GW.

It's also a problem when a country has a (perceived) mentality of more is better, bigger is better etc

If you have a national mentality that worships money for it's own sake, this is what you get.

I've also seen dozens of examples on this site and others where the "head in the sand" mentality has prevailed - and this doesn't help either. Ignoring a problem won't make it go away.

That said, I'm not a supporter of AGW - I think it's a lot of hype and doom mongering, without much substance, and by that I mean REAL concensus amongst scientists.

More important to me, is to halt the pollution of oceans, rivers and land by industrial waste.

If people don't buy them, why would they make them?

forgot to mention the "chain-reaction" effect caused by the HUGE amounts of frozen methane - 20xtimes more "green-house" active than CO2 and enough of it to surpass tens of times the quantity of green-houses the man kind ever emitted since the industrial revolution..


www.sciam.com...

[edit on 14-12-2007 by sty]

No, the rest of the countries aren't willing to do anything substantive. All they are willing to do is sign useless pieces of paper that even if everyone were following it to the letter would make no significant impact on "global warming." Thd only thing it is designed to do is make you feel better about yourself, help you sleep a little easier at night when you know you aren't doing a damn thing.

The only other thing they are willing to do is blame the United States for their own inaction. "We would reduce emissions, we would do something about global warming, but those damn Americans won't, so we can't." If you want to do something, do it yourself, and stop looking at America as your scapegoat.

The EU already has self imposed targets on cutting emissions and is pushing for global targets....

What's the USA doing again?

reply to post by dawnstar

---

There's me thinking Britain started the innovation of the industrial revolution, gez...next you'll be telling me you guys spoke English before us

Anywho..

Two things I've learnt from this thread.

1. ATS members still cannot hold a decent debate without someone trashing the thread

2. Americans (sorry guys) act like children when it comes to fair criticism

Am I surprised? Well, point one yes.

Sadly, with the second point, I'm not. The national psyche of America seems to believe no matter what happens, the United States is above the international community.

News flash people, you ain't. None of us are.

And don't give me all "but we gave the world this, that and the other".

Bollocks.

British and other European members can trail out our nations history in what we've achieved, but why don't we? because we don't act like children.

Yes, China and India do have to sign up, but that's not an excuse for the United States not to play ball. Even members of the Republican Party are amazed at Bush refusing to agree with the European Union.