So big deal, I have a computer and an internet, but it's not like I'm rolling about in bling or even desire too. Even poor people in third world countries like Africa have computers and internet connections. Are they greedy too? Shame on them.

Yes, I've seen many shanty towns in Sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia wired for the internet. We must have very wildly different definitions of what it means to be poor.

Your right about one thing though. I do have a choice and I'm staying put and I will glady contribute to replacing capitalism with a fairer, less greedy, less selfish and corrupt Economic system.

So, either you're hypocritical or you're lazy. I don't mean this as an ad hominem attack, rather just pointing out a flaw in your logic. By continuing to live within a capitalist nation, you are engaging in capitalism and reaping the benefits of it. You are contributing to capitalism, a system you claim to hate so much. You claim to want to see it's downfall and replacement, but you continue to contribute to it's upkeep. That my friend is hypocracy. Plus, look at your wording, "I will gladly contribute" to replacing capitalism -- meaning that you are not taking any active steps in replacing it, despite your desire. This demonstrates a laziness on your part. You could move away, so you don't have to participate in a capitalist system, but you don't; you could help replace the system, but you don't. Hence, laziness.

It is very easy to carry righteous indignation and idealism and not do anything about it.

Humans are greedy animals. It is in our nature to be. It is a survival instinct. Socialism is no less greedy then Capitalism, it just shifts the focus of the greed. Instead of the people holding the money and deciding what they themselves wish to do with it, it is the government holding the money. In Socialism, the government is enriched on the labors of others. while you can make that argument about both systems, in Capitalism everyone has the CHANCE to move ahead and benefit; in Socialism it is only the government that benefits, by both robbing the fruits of others labor, and enslaving the populace in dependence of the government.

Government is no less corrupt than business, and perhaps even more so.

Originally posted by kindred
Saviourcomplex it's your logic that is flawed. You obviously don't understand how capitalism works, as not everyone living under a capitalistic system benefits.

I know you are purposefully ignoring what I wrote; I clearly said everyone has a chance. I even capitalized it. Perhaps your hatred of capitalism has driven you to hate anything involving the word capitol.

I did not say everyone benefits. I said everyone has the chance to benefit. There is a difference.

You attack capitalism because everyone doesn't benefit, yet you cannot make that claim of socialism either (in fact, I've noticed you have not tried to make a case of why socialism is better, rather just attacked capitalism. But I digress). The ideals are lofty and noble, but the execution is anything but. Under every socialist system that has been attempted for the past 100 years, it has resulted in the enslavement and oppression of millions.

Originally posted by kindred
You can argue until your blue in the face about which system is best, but in the meantime capitalism is destroying this planet and humanity along with it and to ignore that is truly ignorant.

Obviously, you know nothing of the environmental degredation wrought by your beloved socialist nations.

I'm not so sure that 'capatalism' is the problem. It's more a case of 'corporatism' being problematic, placing the well-being of non-human money-making organisations above that of people. Treating people as a commodity to be discarded when not required like an old 386. Until these groups lose political power, their well-being will trump that of people. To solve this, funding of political parties must come from taxes, enabling them to work for the people who vote for them, rather than their corporate paymasters.

Plus, the libertarian type of capitalism is not so great - it's almost a free for all. The funniest thing is that Northern Rock in the UK was run by a person who believed in such a free-for-all unregulated system - until the government had to pull it out the sh!t. A more regulated capitalism, with a smattering of socialised systems - education, health etc is a much better prospect for human well-being. Communism is great on paper, but just doesn't work. So, a mixed society is the best option.

IMHO, of course.

Originally posted by DrZERO

jedmiller, I see you have made it back on line and have ignored my question to you in regards to your idea of outlawing trucks, so I will ask again,

DID YOU BUY FOOD AT THE GROCERY STORE THIS WEEK??

I try my best to help the environment. and yes, like someone said, I am not that type of American. the last time I went to the grocery store was like 20 years ago. My mom goes to the grocery store, not me. I go to the drive thru. I make sure to ask for a paper bag, paper napkins and plastic utencils. eating from the drive thru restaurants is the best way to help..they use paper for everything. Go green!

so why not ask for paper forks and knifes also?

sorry, but don't really see how all that is helping the environment that much....although, depending on what drive thru you're continuously going thru, you just might be removing one lifeform from the planet long before it's time.

well, when my mom cooks she smokes the entire place down. Killing my lungs! I tell her to open the windows cause I have respiratory problems and I can't breathe when all the windows are up and she burns the kitchen. it's kinda unhealthy to cook meat like my nephew does, burning up the meat and taking in that killer smoke. that's why I prefer to eat out. less hassle, less pollution.

Johnmike

Common sense is the best rebuttal to communistic jokes like yourself. Such attacks at "capitalism" show complete ignorance to how it actually functions as an economic system. Nor do you offer any alternative systems (the other end of the spectrum is communism, or communism lite (socialism), which has the same vices as capitalism but destroys the ability to produce wealth or move socially.

That sort of stupidity is why we are where we are today.

Spoken like a typical paranoid American who automatically assumes that socialism is communism. I suggest you do some research on the subject, then you might actually know what your talking about. Your communist jibe is so lame, I don't even know why I bothered replying to your ignorant post.



[edit on 25-12-2007 by kindred]

Originally posted by kindred
Spoken like a typical paranoid American who automatically assumes that socialism is communism. I suggest you do some research on the subject, then you might actually know what your talking about. Your communist jibe is so lame, I don't even know why I bothered replying to your ignorant post.

Yes, I'm certain you're educated in economics.

Originally posted by jedimiller
My mom goes to the grocery store, not me.

Originally posted by jedimiller
I go to the drive thru. I make sure to ask for a paper bag, paper napkins and plastic utencils. eating from the drive thru restaurants is the best way to help..they use paper for everything. Go green!

Well that explains your lack of intelligence, all the grease, fat, and preservatives has done permanent brain damage.

Now my pad-o-fat learner listen and learn.
Fast food restaurants are causing the destruction of rain forests, they cut the forest to raise the meat. Then they put that stuff in TRUCKS to deliver it, every few days, to each and every of millions of restaurants.

Paper products contaminated with food are not recycled, they are put in land fill.
To make the paper products, they cut down trees.
All over those paper products is toxic dies, and billions of those paper products are printed each year.

Those plastic utensils of yours are floating in the Pacifica geyer now, thanks, next time I see dead birds and fish I'll think of you.

Please just keep eating from the take-out, it just means it will be that much sooner that I won't have to correct your ignorance.


[edit on 26-12-2007 by Legalizer]

Originally posted by kindred
Spoken like a typical paranoid American who automatically assumes that socialism is communism. I suggest you do some research on the subject, then you might actually know what your talking about.

I would suggest the same of you.

You have attacked capitalism, but you have not yet demonstrated how socialism is any better of a system. The ideals are noble, but one only need to look at the history of the 21st century to see the execution of socialist ideals has been anything but. You can talk all you want about the goals and ideals of socialism and it sounds great, but those are just words; it is the execution of those ideals that is important. In it's execution, so-called socialist nations did make everyone equal, but only by enslaving them to the government and stripping them of any rights.

WOW!

When I clicked on this thread and read the first few quotes and replies, somehow this topic managed to go from the environment to capitalism.

I am not going to bother to read the entire thread but only wanted to say that I own a small fuel efficient car and take the bus to work on most days. I only drive when I have to.

I manage my health pretty good by eating good foods and I have not eaten fast food in about 8 years. Most Americans should try and stay healthy with diet and exercise if they are going to complain about health care cost. It's a good way to prevent health issues to can eliminate cost for them in the long run.

I understand some health issues can't be solved by diet and exercise and I apologize if that last paragraph offended anyone.

I've changed all the bulbs in my house over to the new florescent bulbs and managed to install a new water heater that does not require gas but it heats water on demand.

I actually installed solar panels on the roof of my home and actually sell back electricity to the local electric company. (Pretty cool to watch your meter spin backwards at times)

So please don't generalize all Americans as polluting pigs and hope you know that there are American who changed and will change as time goes on. I think if and when our country gets out from under the Bush regime, you will see some more positive things from our country because the head of the EPA is operated by a Bush cronies.

I can't speak for every American because there are still some ignorant people in this country that thing global warming does not exist. (They probably have stock in oil)

But to put a spin on what I've done to manage to use less electricity has helped. I know the local electric companies still plan to raise their rates once again.

And I know Congress just passed a useless law that requires the fuel efficiency standard to average 35 MPG by 2020. WHAT A WASTE!

It appears the car and oil companies win again. Remember, this is just an average. We could do more, but if people were to use less gas in their new cars, then the oil companies would not make the huge net profits anymore.

Plus they make the some hybrid so expensive that you will not get your money back out of it on a 60 month loan.

So it appears they got their way by writing their own rules by passing these laws with legislation.

That is my two cents.

Too bad. The world is as it is. I could care less about pollution or global warming. I'll deal with those problems as they come.

Now its quitting time and I'm leaving work in my gas guzzlin' Chevy Suburban cause...I can. And I will as long as I can afford to keep fueling it. If someone doesn't agree with my lifestyle, tough.

Oh...and I NEVER recycle anything.

Raf