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In Situation X, Would living on a boat be a good idea?

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posted on Dec, 16 2007 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by leira7
 


My favorite choice would be the second one. If I had a choice of a large lake or inland waterways with many forks (choices) and much concealment I'd opt for the latter. Canoes can safely haul eleven times their weight so you're roughly looking at 1/2 ton of cargo silently gliding along in 4 or 5 inches of water and leaving no trail. Not even for the dogs. Great, free mobility that doubles as shelter.




posted on Dec, 16 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by SemperParatus
 


seriously? 1/2ton of cargo in a standard size open kayak??

the only problem is handling the loads in and out of such a slender hull though, unless you have some way of creating a keel that lowers the centre of gravity below the water-line...perhaps brick-weighted lines jury-rigged to either side of the craft that extend well below water level to reduce risk of any roll (but would induce drag and make the boat harder to paddle), and that can be reeled-in in shallow waters?

I still think the kayak is the winning vessel for post-X though


[edit on 16-12-2007 by citizen smith]



posted on Dec, 16 2007 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by citizen smith
 


Seriously. A 17 foot open canoe weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 pounds (or slightly more) depending on material and the rule of thumb is 11 times the weight of the canoe. Now that cargo weight includes any people on board. I don't have any experience with a kayak but I love a canoe.

You have choices when you buy or build so you need to think about your intended use. Some are narrow with a rounded bottom and tip easy. The advantage of these would be speed but they tip easy, thus giving canoes a bad name. Some are wider with a more flattened bottom and are surprisingly stable. Look for a keel line that sticks out about 1/2" if you can get it. That helps to avoid side slipping and tends to take the brunt of it if you slide over a rock.

Aluminum is light and easy to handle and kind of goes against the 11x rule. It's amazing what you can carry. They're noisy though. Every little bump and every little wave lapping can be heard at surprising distances. Sound really carries on the water. Although aluminum doesn't hold up all that well to skidding over shoals and/or rocks It's possible to repair it in the field with a pop rivet tool and a little scrap aluminum.

ABS plastic is both quiet and durable but pretty darned near impossible to repair unless you have the right kit.

Fiberglass is my favorite because it's both quiet and relatively easy to repair.

If you bag your cargo that can't get wet and lash everything down your center of gravity will be low. Always head into the wind if you can't avoid being out in it and always head into any wave coming at you. You can easily build a dolly to strap onto the bottom using two bicycle wheels.

I like the open top because it gives me easy access to everything and doesn't limit how high I can pile a light enough load to pile high. Also, overturned on land it makes a decent shelter.


apc

posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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In Situation X, Would living on a boat be a good idea?

Well, that would depend on where the boat is.


I like the kayak or canoe idea, except for the luggage factor. It being luggage, that is. Plus if you're forced to leave it behind you either have to go back and get it risking whatever drove you away in the first place, or find a new one. Not a dependency I would want to have.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 08:17 AM
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Should Situation X ever materialise, I will be straight on my yacht and heading up north to the arctic.

I've thought for a long while that sailing out of it was a sensible idea and I stand by that today. There is always the risk of pirates, but you face that challenge any time you head out on the ocean. It's about common sense and seeking the quietest possible places to hang out. If you stay away from the heavily travelled waterways and large areas of civilisation I think it would be the perfect way to ride out the storm.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by more_serotonin_pls
 



There is always the risk of pirates, but you face that challenge any time you head out on the ocean.


There will probably be 10,000 "land pirates" for every "sea pirate" when that day comes. Still, I'd rather be in a situation I can lay low till it settles down and walk away from.

The yacht to the arctic sounds interesting but I'm wondering,,,,long term, what are your plans and/or hopes concerning fuel and food? You can only haul so much.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 11:09 AM
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No doubt that a boat is one of the safer places to be during Sit X.

Desalination can be accomplished with water cone devices or the like - www.watercone.com...

Food is bountiful with a bit of preparation, and you need not be a sitting duck - you can lay pots out and check them periodically to supplement your diet with some tasty crab/lobster.

Rod/reel fishing is not that difficult once you get comfortable with the equipment, or trolling with a net can yield a cornucopia of various edible critters. The ones you can't eat, you can use as bait. There's still a pretty big need for other staples, things you can't find at sea, like flour and butter and fruit and nuts and the like, so that would present a problem. Perhaps the best solution to that would be a supply of vitamins or something to that effect, to supplement your diet and guard against things like scurvy.

Fuel might be a bit of a trick, getting to land, acquiring fuel, and leaving again without incident would be a stroke of luck. Maybe going somewhere a lot less 'civilized' would be the safest bet. You can carry a good deal of fuel, and if used sparingly I imagine it would last a long time - especially if it's diesel.

Sailboats are clearly a better choice, since they can reach a respectable speed even without any fuel at all - though I wouldn't personally want a hoby cat, they're too exposed and flimsy. A lot of fun for just mucking about, don't get me wrong, but if you're living on a boat, a cabin is a necessity I would think.

I'd love to get one of those ocean freight liners, and fill the hold with all the non-perishables you'd need for twenty years, and enough fuel to go 'round the world a half-dozen times, but such things aren't practical - you need a crew, and talk about a blip on the radar...

That might be a viable solution for a commune, or some organized band of relatively-skilled individuals. If you've got a few talented people, quick learners and such, you could probably cover all the needs of the ship, and then you'd have a nice, not-so-little floating fortress.



Pirates aren't that big a deal unless you frequent certain places, Indonesia, China, the Ivory Coast, and so on. There are always bound to be more thugs and thieves on land than at sea anyway because, let's face it, most of those sort have neither the means nor the motivation to take to sea.

The comment about radar is interesting, but I would think it unlikely that in a Sit X, there would be legions of radar operators sitting calmly at their posts, dispatching coast guard cutters or the like. Those people all have families, etc., and they're just as likely as you are to try and bug out.

I suppose martial law is a different animal entirely, and in that case, you have to apply some logic, and look at it from the perspective of the military. They have to expend resources efficiently, and sending a battleship or even a cutter with full crew to go chase a couple of people on a sailboat is a lousy expenditure of precious resources. They're going to want to concentrate on densely populated urban areas - anyone living in the deep woods or out at sea could probably go unmolested for 20 years simply because it's not worth anyone's time to go mess with them.

I imagine if you were orchestrating some sort of rebellion, using your boat as a headquarters, that would be a different story...

Generally speaking, a low profile seems to be the key to surviving all these theoretical situations.

Final notes - as has been said, tsunamis wouldn't be a problem, their waves are small when out at sea. Normal waves would be your biggest issue, but one can usually weather the storms, with a sufficiently sea-worthy vessel and a bit of know-how.

Obviously, the open ocean is a killer if you haven't a clue what you're doing, but becoming familiar with sailing and navigation might be very high on the list of good skills to develop while you still have the luxury of time.

All in all, your chances of survival aren't great no matter what you choose, and everyone has to go sometime. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather go down with the ship, than hiding in a hole somewhere. Personal preference, I suppose.



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

Desalination units are commonplace now and the variety you could get just from eating what you caught would be immense.

Also, if you hit shore every now and again somewhere very out of the way you could always find other supplies. You're right about diesel lasting a very long time if you sail most of the time as well. It does.

The sea can be a very nasty place but it is infinitely better than being on land - or in a city - when it all kicks off. A 40 ft yacht will hardly figure on a radar as well if you take off your radar reflector. Near enough invisiblity. If one was especially worried one could always find somewhere to hide during the day and only sail at night.

It;s very workable and the best bet for lying low as long you know what you're doing and can deal with the solitude.

It's also amazimg how much stuff you can cram into and onto a yacht!

peace



posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by SemperParatus

There will probably be 10,000 "land pirates" for every "sea pirate" when that day comes. Still, I'd rather be in a situation I can lay low till it settles down and walk away from.


I was just thinking the same thing. Preach it brother!!! Whoohoo!
...lol, j/k

If you're thinking that hiding out on the land is a good idea, chances are, 100 million other people have that same plan. I believe fewer people would look to the seas but that's just me



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:02 PM
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Call me crazy, but I’m thinking that the only worry of zombies would be if you have an on board theatre. I think that having a good size boat as a get away option is a great idea, but for long term living, give me good old terra firma. A place to put down roots don’t ya know.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 11:17 PM
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I definately would not go with a lake, and here's why.

In almost any situation X that makes it impossible or undesireable for most people to remain in urban society, the places that are easiest to survive in will likely be over-run with people who think they'll just take a camping trip until everything blows over. This will attract the authorities in an NWO or quarantine based Sit-X, and lead to over-burdening of natural resources, and if things get tight, there will be no shortage of boats on the lake, and no shortage of armed men, so piracy is actually a BIGGER concern on a lake than at sea.


At sea you also face serious challenges. For one, do you know how to sail? You're not going to have fuel forever, and you will have to avoid the attention of the Coast Guard in an NWO, or quarantine based sit-x (even in other sit-Xs you have to be worried about corruption- getting shaken down at sea would not be fun).

Then there's food. You need a varied diet. Fish will stop you from starving to death, if you can catch them (some people have the 'fish repellant' gene it seems), but they will not give you all of the essential vitamins and minerals and your health will deteriorate. Also, if you do not vary your diet you are more prone to the effects of chemicals in the environment. In every day life, mercury and other contaminants that can poison you, cause birth defects, and all kinds of other nasty things don't get to you, because the odds are that most of your diet right now consists of animals that were never in the wild and bread.

But when you stop getting vegitables and bread and eat only meat from the wild, all from the same source, you will begin to accumulate whatever polutants that game may be subject to.

And claustrophobia. You have to really think through the consequences of being in a relatively small space either alone or with the same people day in day out. You can't stay exposed to the sun all day or the cold all night, so you're going to find yourself in whatever quarters your boat provides for long periods of time, not getting enough exercise or change of scenery.



I have always felt that its best to prepare yourself to survive in an out of the way and inhospitable environment. Perhaps that is just my bias as a desert dweller speaking. You won't be crowded, or likely be searched if you pick even a mildly hostile environment. You'll be able to move a bit when you need exercise or personal space, you're have a wide enough berth that you won't over-tax the natural resources of your area, and if you choose wisely and plan carefully, you will be able to vary your diet somewhat.

Personally, I've chosen a small hill in a rocky, relatively barren piece of desert, within walking distance of some good sized hills. Nobody in their right mind is going to rush out there. The ground is uncomfortable, it's hotter than hell if you don't stay in the shade of the hills, and there aren't any well known bodies of water in the area.

However, the water table is extremely shallow (there are a couple oasis further up the fault line) there are accessible small wells and resevoirs belonging to a construction yard which could be accessed at night, there are small hills that provide shade during the day (and which you damn well better stay on top of when it rains- that happens every other year or so), there's an abundance of insects, birds, hare, small reptiles, and some larger game if you've got the right rifle and are fit enough to hike up into the hills.

In defense of boats however, if I were living elsewhere in America, I might consider a small boat to be an outstanding bugout plan. Getting on a highway during a panic would dang near be suicide, but if you were in close proximity to a river that could be safely navigated, a small boat with a reasonably quick motor might be a good ticket to the boondocks. You wouldn't want it to look flashy and you wouldn't want to load it down with goodies though. I would even think about affixing mountings that would allow you to put up a sheet metal or thick wood parapet around the wheel, to minimize vulnerability if somebody had the idea of shooting you and taking your boat. Of course you'd have to think that one through. You might not be able to go unload your boat at the local marina without catching flak from overzealous or self-serving rangers/cops, so knowing somewhere else to put your boat in and having a vehicle that can get in there would be smart.



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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No one can survive in a city when it goes bad! I think boats are a great idea, but under certain conditions. The idea of a kiak or other small row boat almost makes me laugh, as does the idea of a fixed location on land. It is only a matter of time before you are found and the battle will start.

I live two miles from the Mississippi River. I think the big river is the best possible place, and it can be done without spending a fortune. Land cost a lot of bucks now of days. I bought a 22' tri-hull cruiser on eBay for $800 with a completely rebuilt OMC 305 engine. The boat and all electronics are in perfect working condition. It also has a fly bridge and duel controls.

I removed the passenger seats in the main wheel house below the flying bridge and am installing a full galley with double sinks and a two burner stainless steel stove with oven from Bass Pro Shops for $200. I am inclosing the cabin by adding smoked Plexiglass T to both sides and building a bulkhead across the back of the cabin with a door with the plex and a plex windo on both sides.

I am also building a top deck/roof over the back deck that will be 8' wide by 10' long. Since the boat is a tri-hull, it has two bunks sice by side in the cuddy cabin and lots of storage in racks and below the bunks.

The Mississippi river is eat up with small rivers and streams flowing into it. In my area and to places South, the river is in deep isolation. Very few roads exist that even come close to the river and there are vast tracts of woodlands and safe ancorage, that can also be outfited with warning systems to let you know if anyone is approaching.

Fresh water is just a matter of filtering and boiling water from the river or streams. Food takes two avenues. The first and most obvious is fish from trotlines and traps. These are systems that can be set out under cover and harvested during the dark of night. Crawfish traps will also make up a large part of this strategy.

I intend to do what I think of as "Gorila Gardening." I will simply plant seads in locations that will receive enough water and sun and leave it until harvest time. Enough gardens will insure success.

Fuel is somewhat of a problem, however I have learned to make hydrogen from Sodium Hydroxide (which acts as a catalyst and is not used up), water and scrap aluminum. This will run the boat engine, or any other engine. My stove is propane, but I can carry a large amount of that on board and it will last a long time. Most small rural places have plenty of propane available in large storage tanks for later.

I built a hot water heater for showers and dishwashing from a stainless container and a propane burner that draws water from two 55 gallon barrels on top of the back deck and provide gravety feed water pressure to the sink and shower, also to a fish cleaning sing on the rear.

Canvas curtins fall from both sides and the back of the top deck to secure the entire bottom deck into another inclosed compartment of the boat. Mosquito netting will also be installed there to allow some air flow in hot months and keep the little critters out.

Hunting of squirrel, deer, bever and other critters will provide meat year round. A dandy 22 Rifle and amunition forever is not a great expense.

This is obviously not for a lot of people, but for up to 4 or even 5 people, it just may be a better solution than a place on land. I read people here talking about the ocean. VERY FEW of us cound afford something capable of going on the ocean, and then we would not have the training to sail it. It takes a year to plan a trip in a sail boat, so that is just not feasible for most of us.

eBay offers tons of cheap older boats that need a lot of elbo grease and sometimes not a lot else. You can equip one any way you want. For the poor, like me, it may be the only practical way to go. Obviously the right radio gear, extra parts, oil and fuel are important also. It just takes planning.



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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To continue from above, small tents can be carried for extra storage and sleeping arrangements on land. When the propane runs out, a home-made woodgas stove will do the cooking. Coleman stoves use very little gasoline and would last a long time.

The only time the boat would be moved is if you were discovered. The rest of the time it is simply a camper that floats and can get away very fast (50 mph) if you have to.

I have thought about painting the boat a dark, or even camo color and making the canvas curtins black. That way they would keep light from inside from showing up at night. At the very least I will get some camo netting to throw over the white boat when I am ancored in a little cove off a stream or river. The boat has a very shallow draft. A Coleman Lantern might be too bright, even for black canvas, but there are smaller lights. I also have plenty of space for solar panels to keep the batteries up and provide light at night on a limited basis.

I have ample storage space for hundreds of pounds of dry stores in the form of beans, rice, oatmeal, flower, cornmeal, salt and other necessities. In short, I will have the adventage of owning a piece of land, including plenty of highly furtile land for gardens, and it won't cost me anything for the land, or to build a house. Even someone renting a place can have a boat ready to go in a years time.

Did I mention that I even got a fantastic tandom axel trailer with almost new tires thrown into the boat deal? I can launch the boat at a public dock 2 miles from home, by myself, in a matter of 15 minutes! Once on the river, only me and God know where I will be. I have spent a lot of time with Google Earth looking at the river and planning safe hiding places for the big boat. I also have river navigation charts and two GPS systems on board as well as LORAN C navigation and three depth sounders, two marine channel radios, a CB radio and AM/FM radios. I also have a full computer system that works from the generator.

I have two other options for a fishing boat to tow behind the big boat, which is not suitable for running trotlines or crawfish traps because of it's size. I have a 15.5' tri-hull fiberglass boat that will carry over 10 passingers. I just bought it on eBay for $19.95. This is not a typo, like some I see I have made. The boat does not have a motor. I will watch eBay and pick one up later.

I also have a 14' flat bottom aluminum boat and trailer I have repainted OD Green, installed decks and carpeting in, along with a live well and storage compartments. It also needs a motor. I bought the boat and trailer for $50. They are out there, you just have to look for them. One of these boats will be tied to the back of the big boat and will be my main form of transportation and fishing while the big boat remains my house and my get-away-quick- vehicle.

In the mean time, I have a wonderful boat to use in the Spring and will catch a lot of fish, which I happen to LOVE!

I certainly welcome any comments on this plan. I may be able to elaborate on some of the systems I am using and you may have some other ideas I would like to use as well. I would also be interested in talking to anyone in the Memphis area who is of like mind.



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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All in all I'd say you've put some very respectable planning and follow-through into that plan Southerner, but I would like to point out a few contingencies for which it would be worth your while to prepare.

Living near the big river, some of the situations you need to be concerned about possibly include floods. In those situations, though the shallow draft of your boat is of obvious benefit, you still have to be concerned about new debris and obstructions in the river and the large amount of attention that will be paid to the river by people who may decide (without consulting you) that you need "rescue".

You'll also want to consider your relative position on the river to any potential source of a major industrial accident. Just for example, let's suppose that sit-x is another New Madrid quake. Now the river is potentially heavily contaminated with industrial chemicals and contaminants from nuclear plants along the various tributaries of the Mississippi. This creates serious problems for drinking water and food.

Having a secondary plan might not be a bad idea for such contingencies. The same can be said for most situations.

For example I find it relatively safe to have a fixed position on land because my circumstances allow me an abundance of isolated land that nobody in their right mind would want or pay much attention to. However if situation-x were a MAJOR earthquake on the San Andreas fault, my spot would be considerably less tennable and barring near-miraculous road conditions, I'd have an unpleasant little hike lined up for myself.



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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I sort of like this idea. If I was ever going to do it, I'd like some sort of unmanned Island in the middle of nowhere (in the Pacific maybe?) to land on, at least temporarily. Boats can break, you might need to land somewhere to make running repairs.

Would it be a powered or unpowered boat? Fuel might be a problem. You could use solar if it was a really small boat. It wouldn't matter how much fuel you were carrying, you'd eventually run out. Wind? The sails could tear, but wind would be the way to go when fuel runs out.

It'd be good if there's problems on land, but I think relying on the technology, which can go wrong, wouldn't be 100% guaranteed to work.


Hmm, come to think of it, I'd run for the mountains.



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Only on a boat like this one...

44' Motor Lifeboat

I used to be a Coxswain of CG44384 when I was in the Coast Guard. These boats will go anywhere and do anything you ask of them.

One of these on Lake Superior would be the perfect SitX hideaway.

Now if I only had $150,000 to buy it... lol



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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In a situation X, you would want this.

www.ussubs.com...



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by WeAreOne
 


According to Flying Spaghetti theory, this increase in pirates would lead to a decrease in global warming!



posted on Feb, 6 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by leira7
Out of these pics, what would you chose or think to be the most ideal?







the middle pic looks something like a mangrove place,
that's my pick....

the 1st is too 'Blue' like lakes Jacoby & Oconee (water source for the Nuke Plant) here in SC, & their ultra 'Blue' water is indicitive of a new lake (as in no established habitat or water-culture) i.e. only 'stocked' fish...& it would soon-be depleated !


#3 is a pristine and photogenic site...hardly a food or protein source...
much like site #1



posted on Feb, 20 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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I have thought of this as a contingency as well, and am still weighing it for potential as a "do-able" plan, as that it's more attractive than living in a cave. These problems are all easily solved living underground in a self-contained environment, but could pose problems on a boat.

Potential Problems:
Water purification.
Escape/Detection of possible radiation clouds, contaminated water, etc.
Tsunamis, or any other catastrophic sea event.
Shelter (Incoming fire, acid rain, etc.)
Pirates, yes, they still exist.
Radar signature.




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