100% Flawless Proof of God

reply to post by yahn goodey


my appologies?--------how the smiley inserted itself into the D for Daniel is a mystery---------i did not put it there

The bible has no scientific foreknowledge, below are just a few example of where it got science wrong... A quick example below, all discussions of the earth are in context of a flat earth not a sphere...

Psalms
From his seat in heaven, God can see the whole earth and all its inhabitants.
(He sits directly above the earth, which is a flat disc below him.) 33:14-15


From: The Skeptics Annotated Bible www.skepticsannotatedbible.com...

1:1-2:3) "In the beginning"
The first of two contradictory creation accounts. Compare with Genesis 2:4-25 in which the order of events is entirely different.
The two creations
When was the universe created?
The Gap Theory
In the beginning...

(1:1-2:3) The Genesis 1 account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science.

In Genesis 1:1, the earth and "heaven" are created together "in the beginning," whereas according to current estimates, the earth and universe are about 4.6 and 13.7 billion years old, respectively.

In Genesis, the earth is created (1:1) before light (1:3), sun and stars (1:16), birds and whales (1:21) before reptiles and insects (1:24), and flowering plants (1:11) before any animals (1:20). The true order of events in each case was just the opposite.

(1:3-5, 14-19) "Let there be light"
God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?

(1:6-8) The Firmament (Heaven)
God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters.

(1:11-13)
"Let the earth bring forth grass"
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). Notice, though, that God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all.
Were plants created before or after humans?
Does the Bible teach evolution?

(1:14) "Let them be for signs"
God placed the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac to predict what will happen on Earth.
Does the bible condemn astrology?
What the Bible says about astrology

(1:16) "God made the two great lights."
"The greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light; it only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

(1:16) "He made the stars also."
God spends a day making light (before making the sun and stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars.
When were the stars made?

(1:17) "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."
Then why is only a tiny fraction of stars visible from earth? Under the best conditions, no more than a few thousand stars are visible with the unaided eye, yet there are hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy and a hundred billion or so galaxies. Were they all created "to give light upon the earth"?

(1:20-21) "Let the waters bring forth ... fowl."
From what were the fowls created?

(1:24) "Let the earth bring forth the living creature"
Does the Bible teach evolution?

(1:25) "And God made the beast of the earth"
Were humans created before the other animals?
"The beast of the earth"

(1:26) "Let us make man in our own image"
How many gods are there?
"Let them have dominion ... over all the earth"

[edit on 14-12-2007 by mdsnyh]

[edit on 14-12-2007 by mdsnyh]

reply to post by mdsnyh


1). I don't see how this automatically means the Bible is teaching a flat earth. First of all, the entire context is poetic so that is our first clue. If I wanted to get silly we could say the earth spins on it's access and gives God a good view as we spin around. But that's just me being silly.

2). Genesis 1 explains creation in the true chronological order. Genesis 2 explains creation in a topical order revolving around the pinnacle of God's creation- man. Read Genesis two carefully. (See: HERE).

My mind is open, but the bible simply can't be the word of God. God would not need man to write down His word in a transitory book.

Please tell me who wrote the books of the bible (with proof) and, if you can't, why do you believe them to be the word of God?

All man made religions require faith as a direct result of having no proof. What is it that gives you this faith? I have faith in my partner that she will be loyal to me, stand by me through hard times etc. Tha faith is based on a thorough first hand knowledge of that person. This is true faith. The faith of the religious is blind and has no solid base. It is a blind faith. The word "faith" is used by religious leaders to hide the fact that they have no proof and is the end argument which is no argument at all.

You must have faith. Why? Because there is nothing else and this is just not good enough to a man with intelligence. I require proof and there is none that I know of.

Don't get me wrong. I am quite happy to subscribe to a religion, but would need something more than is available to defend it.

My belief in God is based on the evidence of nature, not anonymous books that depict a God that I would be far from proud to believe in, and would give me no hope for the future.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by mdsnyh

 

2). Genesis 1 explains creation in the true chronological order. Genesis 2 explains creation in a topical order revolving around the pinnacle of God's creation- man. Read Genesis two carefully. (See: HERE).

Where does it explain this view in the bible? It doesn't. You are, like most of your arguments, bending the written word to fit your views. I take them as written, the way they are intended to be taken.

The only thing that the page you linked to proves to me is that the bible cannot be relied upon as being the word of God. It seems every line can be made to mean whatever you wish it to mean. I don't believe God would rely on this form of comminication to spread his word and don't see how anyone else can.

[edit on 14-12-2007 by joben]

To the OP, I'm sorry but your topic and post are really disappointing. To state that the bible is 100% is just idiotic. As has been mentioned many times in this thread already; the bible to full of contradictions.

I've really hoping for something tangible when I stumbled across this thread. Something that could spark some serious debate

translation of the bible into english wouldn't have been spot on, what if instead of he who is free of sin may cast the first stone it read he who is hungry may eat the first watermelon?? who knows.

anyway, this whole post is dumb since neither the christians (myself included) and the athiests can either prove or disprove Gods existance.

all the back and forth nonsense of these posts are dumb and pointless.

But you see, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim of existence.

It's not up to the atheists to disprove god. Without evidence, there is no proof it exists. It's up to the religious people to prove god, which they can't do.

Until such a time as they can, god does not exist.

reply to post by joben

Where does it explain this view in the bible?

When reading Genesis 1 and 2 in the original Hebrew, it becomes self explanatory.

Genesis 1 Chronological Order of Creation:
-Light and darkness
-The heavens, and water
-Dry ground, oceans, and seas
-Vegetation of all kinds
-Sun, moon, and stars
-Animals, birds, and fish
-Humans

Genesis 2 Topological Rehash and Detailed Version of Man's Creation:
-Verses 1 and 2: Gives a rehash saying all things were at this point created.
-Verse 4: Shows the earth, sky, planets, land, and oceans were already created.
-Verse 5: Shows that vegetation came after the creation of verse 4.
-Also verse 5: Shows that man again came after all of the above steps and that the water God sent tended to the plants because man was not yet in existence.
-Verse 6: NOW man is created after all of the above is already in existence.
-Verse 7: God places the man he created in the garden that was already in existence.
-Verses 8 and 15: Shows vegetation that has already been planted/created growing from the ground to provide sustenance for man.
-Verse 19: God brought the living creatures to Adam that were already in existence (look at the original Hebrew using a lexicon).

Nothing in Genesis 2 contradicts the creation account of the chronological order in Genesis 1. No manipulating the Scripture for we only used the plain text to verify this.

reply to post by mdsnyh


so when you finally convince everyone else to join you in your disbelief that G-D cannot exist---who do you hope for to extend your life so yous all can live forever without G-D?if you think you only live for the here and now why would you care what any of us think ?obviously you do care----------- otherwise you wouldnt say so ?G-D is offering us eternal life-----------but you dont get it any other way other than doing what the G-D Beings say.john 10:1-16

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by joben

 

Where does it explain this view in the bible?

When reading Genesis 1 and 2 in the original Hebrew, it becomes self explanatory.

Genesis 1 Chronological Order of Creation:
-Light and darkness
-The heavens, and water
-Dry ground, oceans, and seas
-Vegetation of all kinds
-Sun, moon, and stars
-Animals, birds, and fish
-Humans

Genesis 2 Topological Rehash and Detailed Version of Man's Creation:
-Verses 1 and 2: Gives a rehash saying all things were at this point created.
-Verse 4: Shows the earth, sky, planets, land, and oceans were already created.
-Verse 5: Shows that vegetation came after the creation of verse 4.
-Also verse 5: Shows that man again came after all of the above steps and that the water God sent tended to the plants because man was not yet in existence.
-Verse 6: NOW man is created after all of the above is already in existence.
-Verse 7: God places the man he created in the garden that was already in existence.
-Verses 8 and 15: Shows vegetation that has already been planted/created growing from the ground to provide sustenance for man.
-Verse 19: God brought the living creatures to Adam that were already in existence (look at the original Hebrew using a lexicon).

Nothing in Genesis 2 contradicts the creation account of the chronological order in Genesis 1. No manipulating the Scripture for we only used the plain text to verify this.

So you're claiming to have the original Hebrew text and that you can faithfully translate it? There isn't anyone alive who can do that.

Originally posted by yahn goodey
reply to post by mdsnyh

 

so when you finally convince everyone else to join you in your disbelief that G-D cannot exist---who do you hope for to extend your life so yous all can live forever without G-D?if you think you only live for the here and now why would you care what any of us think ?obviously you do care----------- otherwise you wouldnt say so ?G-D is offering us eternal life-----------but you dont get it any other way other than doing what the G-D Beings say.john 10:1-16

Saying that the God of your religion is required to have eternal life is absolute nonsense.

Anytime someone has 100% absolute belief in something and is not willing to analyze his/her position, it becomes a dangerous thing. It can lead to ignorance and worse (war, hatred, predjudice...ect...).

I myself believe in god, but I don't believe that the bible is proof.
That's all you need, belief, not proof. Once you start thinking in absolutes, you're going down the wrong path.
"Judge not, lest 'ye be judged."

reply to post by mdsnyh


a part of the problem in understanding the english translations of the bible stem from very poor translations of the hebrew and greek into english-------------------if you all had the origional hebrew text and read/understood the hebrew and greek languages you would be seeing/understanding with more clarity---------for instance---genesis 1:1 in the beginning G-D:cut down as a forrest and selected chose and dispatched the heaven and the earth2and the earth became destroyed(thru a star wars battle between fallen angels and G-Ds angels but thats another part of the bible)what takes place in the next verses is a re-creation of the destroyed earth and bringing up the sunken tectonic plates above the oceans and a clearing up of the atmosphere so that the sun could shine thru the removed volcanic clouds that caused a " nuclear winter"on earth.if the truth contained in every hebrew word was given by the translators------the book of G-D would become so huge and cumbersome that you'd need library and a bank of "lawyers to help you with it" G-D is trying to practice the kiss principle with our limited minds that dont get it that easily now-----------how much more difficult would you rather it be ?

reply to post by joben


i dont own G-D or make up/invent the religious teachings of scripture.everyone is free to chose for themselves-----------i'd have to be stupid to knowingly decide to chose wrong---------i am not a member of any religious denomination--------have been thrown out of many and voluntarily left before it crossed their minds that i was seeking for truth not foolishness.

I don't believe in God. To send your only son (why ONLY -why no daughters) - of God existed he would be omnipotent and omniscient (he knew what would happen before, now, and the future ) -so he would create a gang who would believe in him and a gang who didn't - no plain field.

And let's look at how the bible phrases things - KINGDOM (of heaven), I can't remember the bible mention democracy - an absolute cornerstone to our civilisation. I could go on but these are just tasters.

As other have mentioned, you see only what you want to see

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by mdsnyh

 

1). I don't see how this automatically means the Bible is teaching a flat earth. First of all, the entire context is poetic so that is our first clue. If I wanted to get silly we could say the earth spins on it's access and gives God a good view as we spin around. But that's just me being silly.

There are many examples in the bible where the authors point of view is clearly that of a flat earth and no inkling of the way the universe works. I can present more if you would like but clearly your mind is made up and I will not try to confuse you with the facts.

There is no white haired man that sits on a throne in the sky manipulating the minions, the bible is not a divine inspired text but simply a conglomeration of stories carefully crafted by the early church to control the masses and their money.

Cheers,

Mdsn

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by joben

 

Where does it explain this view in the bible?

When reading Genesis 1 and 2 in the original Hebrew, it becomes self explanatory.

Genesis 1 Chronological Order of Creation:
-Light and darkness
-The heavens, and water
-Dry ground, oceans, and seas
-Vegetation of all kinds
-Sun, moon, and stars
-Animals, birds, and fish
-Humans

The order is clearly impossible Sun moon and stars MUST come before vegetation of all kinds.

You are right it is self explanatory (it clearly explains that it is wrong and written by men to control men)...

Cheers,

Mdsn

Originally posted by yahn goodey
reply to post by mdsnyh

 

a part of the problem in understanding the english translations of the bible stem from very poor translations of the hebrew and greek into english-------------------if you all had the origional hebrew text and read/understood the hebrew and greek languages you would be seeing/understanding with more clarity---------for instance---genesis 1:1 in the beginning G-D:cut down as a forrest and selected chose and dispatched the heaven and the earth2and the earth became destroyed(thru a star wars battle between fallen angels and G-Ds angels but thats another part of the bible)what takes place in the next verses is a re-creation of the destroyed earth and bringing up the sunken tectonic plates above the oceans and a clearing up of the atmosphere so that the sun could shine thru the removed volcanic clouds that caused a " nuclear winter"on earth.if the truth contained in every hebrew word was given by the translators------the book of G-D would become so huge and cumbersome that you'd need library and a bank of "lawyers to help you with it" G-D is trying to practice the kiss principle with our limited minds that dont get it that easily now-----------how much more difficult would you rather it be ?

What???

Please learn 4 things, 1. sentences, 2. paragraphs, 3. punctuation, and 4. how to string coherent thoughts together...

Originally posted by templar knight
I don't believe in God. To send your only son (why ONLY -why no daughters) - of God existed he would be omnipotent and omniscient (he knew what would happen before, now, and the future ) -so he would create a gang who would believe in him and a gang who didn't - no plain field.

And let's look at how the bible phrases things - KINGDOM (of heaven), I can't remember the bible mention democracy - an absolute cornerstone to our civilisation. I could go on but these are just tasters.

As other have mentioned, you see only what you want to see

Good point the ultra religious right does not believe in democracy instead they clearly believe in the concept of theocracy, which is a mighty scary thought. How would you like living in a country where the leaders were similar to the Taliban but their religion was Christianity not Islam. Just look at the horrible punishments doled out in the Old Testament...