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Why do I feel like ATS wants us to be sheeple now?

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posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by SimiusDei
As far as that podcast goes, it's another matter of opinion.

And the opinion of the guy who conceived of and programmed what is still the only podcasting service integrated into a community, is that your vulgarities made the podcast pointless. There may have been a point you were trying to make, but it was lost in gratuitous language. You can do better.




posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by SimiusDei
I have no intention of leaving.

I like my friends that I have made here and i plan on sticking around as long as they do or until I get banned.




Simius, I don't think that'll happen barring you practically asking to be banned.
You have collected quite a following and respect here at ATS not only by basic members but moderators and site "overlords" alike...



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by SimiusDei
I honestly have no intention of leaving until my friends leave OR until I get banned. If neither happens, I do not leave. How hard is that to comprehend?


my comprehensive abilities are fine. Interesting statement though. This is YOUR playground? I thought ATS was for ALL of the members.


In regard to the "trolls" comment, think Killtown on a MASSIVE level. Yes, I did enjoy booting them. Why? Because they enjoyed making forum life a living hell for the members and it made the members quite happy that they were gone. Thinking of the members is a great thing.


Very magnanamous of you. We DIDN'T take any joy in removing that member though. See the difference?


And there were 29 of us.


Ah, 29 of you on a board, let me quote:


However, having been a super moderator of a forum that is easily 20 times larger and 100 times busier than ATS, I have a hard time agreeing that a mod's job is "hard".


So you were a mod on a forum 100 times busier than ATS with about half of the staff members? Sorry, that doesn't fly imo.


Who asked for perfection? I see NO ONE even hinting at perfection being a requirement.


Inference here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I do see many many active members who LOVE ATS and would not DARE speak out for fear of raising the ire of the mods upset because a certain mod seems to go above and beyond when it comes to making their ATS life a living hell (and no, I'm not talking about me, my problems with that mod ceased a good while back). I do see a number of members wondering what is going on around ATS and BTS lately. I do see a number of members saying that ATS and BTS seem to be going downhill. I do see personal attacks on members that remain after members have long since alerted the mods to the attacks and I do see members questioning why those posts haven't been edited.


You see wrong. The fact that this thread is still going is proof in itself. Try that at another forum, say GLP and see how long you are a member there.


Where you see your own wit, I see someone making a baseless assumption in order to suit their own position.


I save my wit for threads in BTS that are worthy of it. Not baseless accusations against me and my fellow staff members. Are you banned yet btw?



Where you see yourself being an unpaid person doing a job for the sake of loving ATS, I see a regular member with some extra buttons and a bit of forum "power" who is doing exactly what they would be doing even if they weren't a mod. (Meaning sitting in front of a computer screen, typing and using your mouse while at www.abovetopsecret.com...)


This is your misconception, probably from being a staff member(maybe) that thought he could be" a regular member with some extra buttons and a bit of forum "power". Your previous posts proved as much. ATS staff are held to a much higher standard than that.



I also put a great deal of time into the site. I also put a great deal of time into posts and threads. I also do not receive payment for doing so.


Yes but who are you promoting? Yourself or ATS. I can answer that one easily. Can you?



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


So your comprehensive abilities are on par with your baseless assumption abilities huh? Okay, gotcha!

See, I can do it too.

Yes, 29 mods. That was all we needed. The rules were very clearly laid out and roughly 95% of the membership were excellent about abiding by them. Of course, they were quite hard to "break" without some blatant trolling. And yes, language was regulated as well as post length.


Intrepid, I am NOT trying to personally attack you. PLEASE understand that.

However, your two responses here have been virtually identical to the ones you made in another thread some time back in regards to "mod behavior and bias".

You are making completely baseless assumptions and insinuations. You presume to call me a liar in regards to what I say, even if you don't do it outright. One with a SPECK of sense should have no trouble reading between the lines.

Should I even bother to respond to you if you are going to respond in such a manner?

Perhaps I am simply coming off the wrong way? I hope not, but it is certainly possible.


I don't wish to attack you or belittle what you do.


There is a fine line between "respect" and "caring".

Do I respect what you guys do? Yes, of course I do. I have been there and I KNOW that there is good, bad and ugly involved in moderating a forum of any decent size.

Do I care however? No, I don't.

I personally view mods as being the "peons" of a forum. Not because I believe that they are beneath ANYONE, but because I feel that they accepted a JOB that requires them to serve the membership through many different means.

Majic posted a TREMENDOUS podcast in regards to moderating here at ATS. If you haven't listened, perhaps should give it a few minutes. I basically feel the exact same way that he does. I just express it differently.



My wi-fi is acting very very sketchy on me right now. I'll try to reply a bit more when it stops this nonsense.




As I asked earlier; Can we not simply agree to disagree?

What good does getting pissed off do either of us?


Jasn


In regards to GLP, I'm with you 1000%. GLP is, however, a beast of a different sort. Neither ATS, my old forums nor any other HALF WAY respectable forum deserves being compared to that trash.

[edit on 12-12-2007 by SimiusDei]



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Not everyone views "gratuitous" use of explicit language as being a message killer.

Pedophiles and people that support them just happen to be a subject that REALLY hits a nerve with me.

Lewis Black, Dave Rabbit and Bill Hicks pulled it off quite nicely. And no, I'm not putting myself on their level. Not by a long shot.

God's opinion is still just an opinion. What is it they say about opinions again?

It does seem that you care a bit more about my podcast than I do.

Jasn




[edit on 12-12-2007 by SimiusDei]



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


Thanks bro.

Regardless of what some may think, I am not looking to get myself booted. I'm just attempting to "plead the case" of sorts.


You have your rightful place over there on my avatar. I suppose my public recognition of your intelligence and dedication is the least than I can do.

You will ALWAYS have my respect.


Keep smilin amigo!
Jasn



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by SimiusDei
 


I'm certainly interested in this forum that you speak of. Would you mind u2uing me the link when you get a chance?

As for this little exchange, trying to remain as neutral as possible.. I'm sorry Simius but you come across as very self serving. You speak of our vague rules and how members are constantly questioning them. But I believe that this is a generalization on your behalf, and that most active members are more than aware of what we consider to be a standard here on ATS.

To chime in on your continued backhanded comments towards the ATS Staff, how can one not get frustrated? If I am to be honest here, I really don't give two hoots on what you think of me personally. I would hope that I am viewed as a member who carries them self in an appropriate manner, and represents this community in a positive light. As for any personal opinion, to each their own. But I question why you feel the need to insert the repetitive personal commentary. You don't care about staff, and you really don't concern yourself with the efforts that are put forth.. it's noted. Why continue to harp on it? Can it be for anything other than self serving reasons?

We can point fingers here all we want, but it needs to be stated that you have initiated this by injecting this personal commentary that has been seen countless times in the last few weeks. Why continue to say it? Is there a reason?

We've had our exchanges in the past, and I'm sure we'll continue to have them in the future... but I can't help but wonder if all of this isn't purely self-serving.

My thoughts? It is self-serving, and the members will see it for what it is. ATS has the best staff on the internet.. but we only have the best staff because we have the best membership to pick from. Don't sell them short or insult them by underestimating them.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by chissler]



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by SimiusDei
 


Simius, you're not going to get banned, just stay civil. The mods here, from what I have seen are willing to discuss just about anything as long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks..

Now, I have to say, Simius,
I generally support the Mod. I think they do a hell of a job here, so, I may not completely agree with you on this one, but, we can agree to disagree, right?



[edit on 13-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


We can always agree to disagree.


That's a beautiful option for those that choose it.




I support the mods as well. I respect them. I TRY to respect the rules. However, I simply don't truly "care" about them.

I care about my friends. Some just happen to be mods.




Jasn



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by SimiusDei



I TRY to respect the rules. However, I simply don't truly "care" about them.



Jasn


I don't quite understand what you mean here. To me, you're not typically in violation of any of them, at least not blatantly. So that infers to me that you have some regard for them. Do you not care about them? Or do you not care whether they are in place or not?

[edit on 13-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by chissler
 


I agree. The members will see it for what it is.

Of course I speak in generalizations bro.


If I were to start throwing u2u quotes around, that would be VERY self serving of me. Not to mention, just plain wrong.


I am simply stating my views. That is still acceptable correct?


I've said it before and I'll say it again. I MAY be wrong. It has happened before and it will certainly happen again. However, I'm just being honest.


In what way could my previous posts and comments in regards to things actually benefit me?

If there is no payoff, how can it be self serving?

You and I have indeed spoken several times via u2u. I have attempted, at every turn, to be as courteous and respectful of you as possible. I have done so because that is how you have treated me.

I value any u2u that starts off, "Hey man! How are you? I just wanted to message you and address a couple of issues I have noticed with you lately...." over one that starts out "What the hell? You know better than that! I should have just trashed that thread, but I......."

Not because I believe that I am owed anything, but because I respect the fact that I was respected.

I make mistakes. I goof up quite a bit. I also make many a reference to my goofing up and some of the HORRIBLE posts that I have made. Even so, that doesn't mean that I feel like I should sign on and have some rude u2u waiting on me in regards to something I wrote that was interpreted in a way that i certainly did not intend.


I try my best to make a point of showing my respect when it is due. I certainly hope that you guys are actually feeling it.



Take care bro.

Jasn



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


Hmm, let me try to convey my feelings on this.


As I told you in the u2u, I'm not so great at conveying my feelings via the internet.



I RESPECT the rules that have been set forth and I try to abide by them. I slip up at times, but I do not wish to break them or "test boundaries".

I did test boundaries when I first came here, more as a means of getting a true feel for the site for myself. You know, a "what's it like here?" sort of deal.

I do not "care" about the rules in the same way I do not "care" about the mods or the owners.

I come back to ATS for the members and their threads/posts. I come back for my friends here. I CARE about them.

When I'm about to get online, my thoughts are along the lines of "I wonder what Steve is up to today" or "I need to go check speaker's new threads to see what's up." Same goes for a lot of members here.

That's what I CARE about here.


Rules certainly have their purpose and I believe ATS would be a huge cluster*bleep* without them.

However, I do not CARE about them in the least. They are more of an afterthought to me than anything else.

I personally believe that a few of them are in place solely for revenue purposes. If that IS the case, that is certainly understandable as well. ATS is a BUSINESS, first and foremost.

While I honestly DO believe that Bill, Simon and the others care about members having access to the site anywhere they go, I feel that the rules that are in place to avoid censorship in a public computer usage atmosphere are there MORE for the purpose of allowing access from anywhere so as to help page views and revenue. Anyway you look at that, it's just good business.

Having potential library and internet cafe style traffic threatened with "dirty words" can be a HUGE hit to the traffic here and, in turn, the revenue.


Again, I may be wrong. But if I am correct, I see nothing wrong with this line of thinking. Especially when you have a TREMENDOUS amount of money invested in the business. It would be foolish to let an "f-bomb" or someone using drug slang get in the way over potential profits.

In other words, when I log on each day, the rules, Bill, Simon and the mods are far from what I think about when clicking my little button in my toolbar.


I hope that makes SOME sort of sense haha.

I'm really bad at this, I know. Please forgive.





Jasn



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:37 AM
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The Good Shepherd


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Hello all. I used to come here because I wasn't one of the world's sheeple and knew I could find others like myself here. Now I feel like those in charge WANT us to be sheeple. This is bizarre and confusing to say the least.

The subject matter covered on ATS naturally attracts the kind of person who is suspicious of (or downright antagonistic to) authority.

For my part, I think such sentiments are generally healthy. Only in cases where they are hurtful do I consider them unhealthy.

But questioning authority is a good thing, and despite the fact that there are reasonable limits to how far that can go on ATS, it is still very much encouraged here.

I think some of the confusion some members feel regarding ATS arises from misunderstanding the nature and role of the terms & conditions.

It's natural to chafe at restrictions when asserting intellectual freedom, but every restriction that applies on ATS exists for very good reasons.

Without the T&C, ATS as we know it simply would not be possible.

Yes there are many subjects we don't discuss here, and I know there's plenty of wailing and gnashing of teeth about restrictions involving the subject of drugs, for example. We also don't discuss porn, gore, ways or plans to commit crimes, post spam, ads, threats, racial epithets, etc.

The restrictions imposed by the site owners on the membership reflect their goals for ATS. If you share those goals, you're in the right place.

Note, however, that none of those goals involve telling anyone what to think about any of the topics we discuss. A core value of our community is respect for the right of each member to decide what to believe.

If the ownership of ATS wanted you to be "sheeple", insisting that you be allowed to express your own opinion and make up your own mind about the issues we discuss would be a very ineffective way to go about it.



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Oh Intrepid:
"my comprehensive abilities are fine. Interesting statement though. This is YOUR playground? I thought ATS was for ALL of the members".

Man your a great Moderator, Sir. Though you seriously seem to pick and choose when you come on line. When you do -- your amazing in your thoughts and words. And of course rulings.

Respectfully,
Dallas



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by SimiusDei
 


Simius, I think what you're trying to say when you say you "don't care" is that you don't WORRY about them. They are not on your mind everytime you post. Is that about right?



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


That's close enough.



I have said it before and I'll say it again, SoT, you need to be my translator during times such as these.

hahahahha


Take care bro.


I believe I'll take your advice and step back a bit. You haven't failed me yet.


Thanks a million buddy!
Jasn



posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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Sounds like a civil war.....

But seriously.....what's the deal? IMHO, it honestly appears like we, the members, are under the thumb of the powers that be. It never felt that way before. I feel like George Dubya Bush is the new CEO here or something, with his pals in the NSA watching over us. Perhaps some of us will get visits in the middle of the night.


Is Dick Cheney a moderator here now?


You see, this is BTS.....this is the Chit Chat forum. It's not the 9/11 Forum or the ATS Conpiracy Theory Forum or any other SERIOUS forum where people are screwing around and annoying the people that are truly there for a purpose. There is no purpose here other than to keep it light and take one's mind of the bull crap in the world instead of diving into heavy topics on ATS that end up just stressing one out. No one is harming anyone.

We come here to play. It's just rather odd that we have rules on how we should play. It's like we're six year olds at recess and Ms. Davis, the lesbian (of course we didn't know she was a lesbian at six) is eyeballing our every move to make sure we play correctly. You get the hairy eyeball from her and end up needing a change of underwear because she's mean and generally angry. Angry because she is an unhappy lesbian, but again, who knew at six.



[edit on 13-12-2007 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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I think what he means, in mainly the quality of the posts. When the poster's see one reptillian thread, 10 more post the varying degrees of same thread. Not many posters research anymore, not much common sense either. I think the quality of caring, and putting the person's two cents in is dead. There's not really any debates that are really good anymore, except the ones from the ats pros. And it seems like no one really cares about the truth anymore either. I guess it's more important to make something up then facing the thing that's already blatantly staring you in the face. That's my view on the subject, those are things that i've seen since registering in 2005. Although the mudslinging is rare, which is a nice thing.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:35 PM
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Well, i guess this got simiusdei banned. I guess ill keep my mouth shut from now on!



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