Dealing with 9/11 Madness (argumentum ad hominem veritas)

all i know people is, its easy on the internet to say your one thing and be another. SO claims the "truthers" cause the problems, and it may be so from the point that it may be someone against the OS causing the outbursts, but you have no proof that person is a "truther". to be against the OS doesn't mean you are a truther. The "truthers" have sign up sheets and members. and like I said, they could be OSers just pretending to be a "truther" to make an outburst and make it look like a truther. thus why its an individuals problem, not a group like the "truthers'.

I thought SO of all people would be able to see that. I mean, its his site and a very often post is, "source, facts, link, proof, or it didn't happn. "

now he can show us all the "truther" outbursts he wants, but he has no clue if it actually a truther. ok.. perhaps a few could be confirmed, but once again, i doubt it. cause for instance, someone could claim to be a truther on here, but for all we know, they are not. its easy to play a role, and hide who you really are. for i'm a 110 year old grandmother. swaying in a breeze. gotta go have my morning prune juice now.. maybe when i return SO would have apologized for claiming its "truthers" causing majority of problems around this forum without actual proof that said member is in REALITY a truther.

for pointing blame is irrelevant.. the problem is the outbursts and vulgarity, not the side they are on.

reply to post by Myendica


Kinda doubt it.

I"m still waiting on an apology for being called stupid, obtuse, and being accused of being a troll.

So much for SO and his ban on ad hominem attacks. Maybe we need to send him a dictionary.


OH well. Its his site.

If he wants to be an ass, and piss in his own sandbox, he can.
The rest of us can just go play somewhere else.

Not sure what happened to SO. Pretty much till now, I've NEVER had reason to think badly of him.

reply to post by felonius

I've got nothing against SO.. just from a business stand point, I don't agree with his actions. Though if its his wishes to tarnish the reputation of what he has created, so be it. I wouldnt go as far as to call him an ass.. we get to converse on the site regardless of whether we agree with his conditions.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I vote BoneZ to be new mod on the 9/11 forums.. he seems to know what he is talking about and is right about how the forums get a crackdown and then it goes away after a week because of lack of moderation.

This should be considered,
I second the motion.

Yes, everyone is responsible for his/her own behavior, BUT......

One thing is clear...no matter what your stance is on the 9/11 attacks, if our government didn't assist in the planning (or intentionally fail to do something to prevent the attacks), they, at best, displayed the highest level of incompetence one could imagine, causing this incident to be more disastrous than it had to be. Has anyone been punished over the incompetence! HELL NO! Why is this? IS THIS NOT REASON ENOUGH TO HAVE SUSPICION about our government's roll?

Quite frankly, I'm tired of this site's management pointing the fingers at "truthers" for being the biggest offenders. This REALLY lights my fuse because we have put up with God knows how many obvious paid government shills showing up in these threads belittling us and making fun and yet they continue to do so freely.

SkepticOverlord specifically addresses his concerns about the "T.V. Fakery" bunch originating from September Clues, yet the likes of *SNIP!*, who's been a member here since 2010 blatantly prances around here touting his "no victim/no planes" crap and his promotion of the September Clues group's website ROUTINELY.....even starting threads claiming OTHER attacks like the Norway one were FAKED! Why is he still here? WHY?! He is obviously NOT a legitimate "truther!" SkepticOverlord has even debated this member HIMSELF and easily shown his claims to be crap!

Early on when I started a thread about the possibility of fake victims in 9/11 (some fake victims....NOT ALL), SkepticOverlord came down on me like a ton of bricks, slapping warnings all over me and implying I was part of the September Clues "no planer" group! At the time, I didn't even know about the "no planer" theories!! Is it not clear that members of the September Clues bunch are paid government shills?! They have successfully carried out their mission, HAVEN'T THEY?!! They have cast doubts on all of us....even a couple of my Facebook friends have assumed me to be a believer in the "no planes" theory simply because I have expressed opinions that the government was involved in 9/11. THANKS, *SNIP!* and FRIENDS!!!!!

This management wants us to be CIVIL to these CLOWNS when we're talking about a murderous attack that not only killed thousands in one day, but continues to kill those who were exposed to the asbestos in LARRY SILVERSTEIN'S buildings, and was the precursor to TWO wars which we are fighting 10 years later......and no ONE HAS BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE in the US government? PARDON ME IF I GET PISSED OFF WHEN THESE PROMOTERS OF THE O.S. TRY TO ATTACK MY CREDIBILITY!!!

WHY SHOULDN'T WE BE ABLE TO CALL THESE PEOPLE OUT FOR WHO THEY ARE! THEY ARE PURVEYORS OF THESE LIES AND SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR TREASON, YET THEY FREELY ROAM THESE THREADS.....BUT "TRUTHERS" ARE THE OFFENDERS??!







Mod edit: Member names snipped. Let's please not name names in public threads, and reserve that for complaints. -- Majic

Originally posted by NightGypsy
Quite frankly, I'm tired of this site's management pointing the fingers at "truthers" for being the biggest offenders. This REALLY lights my fuse because we have put up with God knows how many obvious paid government shills showing up in these threads belittling us and making fun and yet they continue to do so freely.

....

Early on when I started a thread about the possibility of fake victims in 9/11 (some fake victims....NOT ALL), SkepticOverlord came down on me like a ton of bricks, slapping warnings all over me and implying I was part of the September Clues "no planer" group! At the time, I didn't even know about the "no planer" theories!! Is it not clear that members of the September Clues bunch are paid government shills?!

Well, one, you cannot be one to decide who is being paid to do anything. That is an assumption based on literally no evidence other than the natural "they don't agree with me" bit.

Second, the simple reason behind people not allowing your fake victims thread to go somewhere is because it is widely agreed that all the victims were real. The questions up for debate are why and how they died (shot down, demolitions, faulty construction, etc.)

Don't take it personally, it's just the consensus that has been come to here after 10 years.

reply to post by Varemia

Well, one, you cannot be one to decide who is being paid to do anything. That is an assumption based on literally no evidence other than the natural "they don't agree with me" bit. Second, the simple reason behind people not allowing your fake victims thread to go somewhere is because it is widely agreed that all the victims were real. The questions up for debate are why and how they died (shot down, demolitions, faulty construction, etc.)

You are wrong. I am quite free to decide FOR MYSELF who is being paid. It is my opinion and I have chosen to voice it here in this forum because of what I've read in here thus far. You may not agree, ATS management may not agree, but I"m making the point regardless because I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this situation.

My fake victims thread was a couple of years ago. It is not recent, so it has already come and gone and been dealt with. I'm simply mentioning it here to make a point. Maybe it is widely "agreed" that ALL the victims are real because that's an area where not too many people wish to venture due to it's sensitive nature. I chose to explore many avenues of the 9/11 event and I personally think there are victim identities that are suspect. If you can't see how this would be relevant in the grand scheme, then I can't do anything about that. I'm quite sure most of the victims were VERY real.....I mean no disrespect in this regard. But I'm telling you that if, indeed, some were fake, that fact is more disrespectful to the families of the TRUE victims than anything I could claim.

reply to post by Varemia

Well, one, you cannot be one to decide who is being paid to do anything. That is an assumption based on literally no evidence other than the natural "they don't agree with me" bit.

You have no idea what I'm basing my opinion on. You are the one making the assumptions here, not I.

reply to post by NightGypsy


It is against decorum to deface a member's credibility by accusing them of being a paid government agent. It is that simple. Unless you have absolute proof that a person is being paid by a government entity or otherwise, it is an opinion that you honestly just do not need to share, no matter how angry you may be.

People started calling me a government agent just because I posted a lot in the 9/11 forums as a pro-OS person (most of the time). Honestly, if I could make money just by posting on an internet forum a lot, then I would have cashed in on that a long time ago. I must be getting gypped right now, doing this without any compensation.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
You are wrong. I am quite free to decide FOR MYSELF who is being paid.

Certainly you're free to form your own opinions.

However, putting fingers to keyboard on ATS and calling another member anything akin to a "paid shill" is deffinately a direct insult, and will most certainly result in an action on your ATS account.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

However, putting fingers to keyboard on ATS and calling another member anything akin to a "paid shill" is deffinately a direct insult, and will most certainly result in an action on your ATS account.

That figures.....

reply to post by Varemia

I must be getting gypped right now, doing this without any compensation.

How dare you make me crack up when I'm mad at you.....

Pound And Shilling

Originally posted by NightGypsy
I am quite free to decide FOR MYSELF who is being paid.

That's true. You can decide or believe whatever you want. It's your call.

But when you label another member a "paid shill", you are violating the terms & conditions you agree to honor by posting here. If you truly believe someone is a paid shill, please ALERT related posts and explain why, WITHOUT posting such theories in public threads.

Ironically, accusing others of being shills is precisely the sort of trolling we could expect "paid shills" use to disrupt discussion. I don't recommend making a habit of it.

Meanwhile, in reference to someone else's post, I would like to point out that referring to a site owner as an "ass", whatever the perceived provocation might be, is now officially the stupidest thing I've seen in this thread.

What the hell are some people thinking -- if at all?

But when you label another member a "paid shill", you are violating the terms & conditions you agree to honor by posting here. If you truly believe someone is a paid shill, please ALERT related posts and explain why, WITHOUT posting such theories in public threads. Ironically, accusing others of being shills is precisely the sort of trolling we could expect "paid shills" use to disrupt discussion. I don't recommend making a habit of it. Meanwhile, in reference to someone else's post, I would like to point out that referring to a site owner as an "ass", whatever the perceived provocation might be, is now officially the stupidest thing I've seen in this thread.

reply to post by Majic


WHAT?! Would you please show me where I referred to this site's owner as an ASS?!!!! I have NEVER called management on this site derogatory NAMES! You have the wrong gal.

reply to post by NightGypsy

Originally posted by Majic
Meanwhile, in reference to someone else’s post

I am glad the mgt is taking action to crack down on the 9/11 threads. I don't even participate in them because it's a complete waste of time.

Every discussion turns into a round of insults and accusations. Every single one.

There is just no point in posting in those threads anymore.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
Quite frankly, I'm tired of this site's management pointing the fingers at "truthers" for being the biggest offenders.

No pun intended, but, the truth can hurt.

This management wants us to be CIVIL to these CLOWNS

Case in point.



I've written many posts similar to what I'm about to write below, it's a point that is apparently difficult for many to understand, but also apparently important to need repeating as often as necessary.


Personal Responsibility

If you take seriously the subjects you discuss on ATS -- in this case, conspiracies and cover-ups surrounding the 9/11 attacks -- then it is your responsibility to communicate your ideas in a manner that promotes consideration and contemplation via conduct that portrays maturity and respect. The ability for anyone to take you seriously is severely hampered by a style of delivery that is anything less.

We've had a great deal of experience with people claiming to be part of various aspects/factions of "9/11 Truth" here, and I've personally attended several meetings of three different "9/11 Truth" groups. I regret that my take-away, in all cases, is the observation that propriety is generally severely lacking. And don't even get me started about the vitriol spewed by the "9/11 Truth" protestors often camped out at ground zero.

(To be fair, the same can be said of other "true-believer" groups in these mix of topics, such as UFO fanatics, political conspiracists, and others.)


I personally believe these topics (9/11 conspiracies) to be among the most important issues discussed on ATS. But the manner in which many of the discussions occur not only detract from the important points, but have the very serious potential to turn away interested people who may be on the fence.

And, to extend the issue, such impertinence, abusiveness, and denigration (evident in your post here) that can run rampant harms the entire ATS membership who are serious about all our topics. It's a cancer that can and has spread its ugliness to other topics.


The ownership of ATS takes our role as stewards of this community exceptionally seriously, as do our entire moderation staff. On any given day as many as twenty times more non-member guests read the content on ATS as compared to actual logged-in members. Millions of people, every month, come here to read what you write. When you are incapable of behaving within our very simple rules of civility and decorum, your actions detract from the efforts of every ATS member who can, and ultimately shine a negative light seen by those millions.


This is the inspiration for my actions in the 9/11 topics. While the topics are very important to me, I fear that allowing the nastiness to continue will cause more harm than good. And I can't tolerate the idea that content on ATS may cause harm in a case such as this.

Originally posted by Majic
reply to post by NightGypsy

 

Originally posted by Majic
Meanwhile, in reference to someone else’s post

Your previous post is worded in such a manner that it appears you are accusing ME of this. Sorry, but you should have worded better.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
Your previous post is worded in such a manner that it appears you are accusing ME of this. Sorry, but you should have worded better.

I think you should have read it better. Agree to disagree?

You're either purposefully lying, or have a defective memory on the issue you brought up...

Originally posted by NightGypsy
SkepticOverlord came down on me like a ton of bricks, slapping warnings all over me and implying I was part of the September Clues "no planer" group!

As you may or may not be aware, we keep records of all actions against an account, and can look up such occurrences.

In March of 2010, I removed two posts of yours because they were nothing more and overt insults directed at an ATS members.

The same for one post yesterday.

Those are the only actions I took, and I never commented in either thread.