Dealing with 9/11 Madness (argumentum ad hominem veritas)

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
No-plane theory threads are typically moved to HOAX or Skunk Works depending on the source material.

It is considered a hoax here on ATS.

That sounds kinda hokey, honestly. Who decides that and on what basis? Opinion? What if there's some legitimacy to the thread, there's military projects where missiles were designed to resemble civilian airliners, there's some weird stuff in the live footage from 9-11 that gets crammed into this no-plane genre that needs hashed out, but you're moving it all to the hoax forum? That hoax forum is about as close as to the C word as you can get.

Originally posted by twitchy
Who decides that and on what basis?

In the same way Billy Meier and Galactic Federation of Light have long since been considered hoaxes.

The Truth About "Truthers"

Originally posted by twitchy
Does this mean the word/stereotype 'truther' aka 'toofer' can go down the toliet where it belongs now?

The use of derogatory epithets (aside from being childish) may, depending on context, indeed be a form of ad hominem attack and actionable under the terms & conditions.

If you are the target of name-calling or other forms of insult or abuse, please ALERT the offending post and we'll have a look at it.

Sometimes it's an honest mistake or doesn't merit action in our view, but members who habitually rely on ridicule in lieu of intelligent discussion put themselves on a path which leads away from continued membership.

These sorts of problems can take time to resolve, but we do our best, and appreciate your patience.





P.S. I'd also like to add, as a footnote, that this would be a most inopportune time for anyone to convince the staff of intent to troll or otherwise indulge in rude, disruptive or abusive behavior. Just sayin'

Let me make one more very important point before I depart for the night.

Those who post in support of 9/11 conspiracy theories and related speculation who cast aspersions on those who don't believe their theories and toss around insulting names (like "shill") are doing more to force ATS staff to reconsider the 9/11 forum than anyone who prefers the "official story."


I personally am very much vested in the continuation of this forum -- but I'm MORE VESTED in ATS and ensuring all discussions on this site live up to our rather simple to understand standards.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by twitchy
Who decides that and on what basis?

In the same way Billy Meier and Galactic Federation of Light have long since been considered hoaxes.

Oh, thank god we don't have to reason that stuff out for ourselves anymore.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I personally am very much vested in the continuation of this forum -- but I'm MORE VESTED in ATS and ensuring all discussions on this site live up to our rather simple to understand standards.

My last word on the issue.....Good...

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Ok, I can agree that this was inevitable.....

but can we apply this rule to the politics forum? Just a suggestion.

Originally posted by twitchy
there's military projects where missiles were designed to resemble civilian airliners,

There is? Care to point out which military project that was? Or are you talking about the photoshopped cruise missile painted to like like a AA plane?

there's some weird stuff in the live footage from 9-11

what weird stuff would that be exactly?

reply to post by migliavacca


I'd say TPTB had their day and completed their goal.

But what do I know...I'm just a poster. Some a person doing the very thing they know that will shut down a website or forum.. that's cyber-terrorism to me.. who gains and who loses from such actions?

I've posted maybe 3 or four times in the 9/11 forum over the years - a low number for the simple reason that the namecalling and insult-throwing is light-years beyond the rest of the website.

Quite frankly, as it currently is, the forum is unusable for people who like drop in every so often. I would post more in there but I won't simply because decorum took a rocket ride to outer space.

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by twitchy
there's military projects where missiles were designed to resemble civilian airliners,

There is? Care to point out which military project that was? Or are you talking about the photoshopped cruise missile painted to like like a AA plane?

there's some weird stuff in the live footage from 9-11

what weird stuff would that be exactly?

There sure is, and no, I'm not talking about photoshpped cruise missiles... but this isn't the thread for us to get into a pointless debate, try google or dig around in the 9-11 forum's nearly 10 years worth of material that used to be a rare gem of intellectualism here. I put alot of work and research into the material I posted here in the 9-11 forum, and alot of others did as well. Try the search function
It would be nice to see it return to that sure enough, but I remain skeptical, it's gotten so easy to get on here and pick a fight or relegate someone's hard work to 'twofer', while I appluad the sentiment, I don't think it's as easy as handing out a couple bans and deleting a couple posts. This site has grown exponentially since 9-11, but there's a qualitative and quantatative abyss from which this site may never recover, particularly in the 9-11 forum.

I was going to post an example of why I quit posting in the 9-11 forum, but LOL, any ideas why my "Old Threads Revisited by Twitchy" isn't showing up in the search function? That's about the fourth or fifth thread of mine that I've found to be invisible or just plane gone lately. Sigh... Take a look at the last couple of posts on that thread and see what happens to 9-11 threads, and we're supposed to believe that the conspiracy theorists are the main problem on the conspiracy web site?

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by twitchy
I'm not talking about photoshpped cruise missiles.

So what military projects "where missiles were designed to resemble civilian airliners" then?

Why avoid this simple question?

One more time...

...this isn't the thread for us to get into a pointless debate, try google or dig around in the 9-11 forum's nearly 10 years worth of material that used to be a rare gem of intellectualism here. I put alot of work and research into the material I posted here in the 9-11 forum, and alot of others did as well. Try the search function

It's here on ATS, it's in my post history, and yes, it's properly sourced and was reported in the mainstream media. I'm not avoiding your question, frankly I'm avoiding you and a pointless off topic debate.

Threadbear

Originally posted by twitchy
this isn't the thread for us to get into a pointless debate

Just so, and thanks for both making the point and sticking with it.

We do, after all, have an entire forum for 9/11 topics. This thread is for discussion of the dismal state of affairs with regard to courtesy and trollery in this esteemed virtual venue.

As for the "invisibility spell", I tried the search and got the same results: none.

I don't know why that is so, and only Bill knows the SQL voodoo involved, so I must defer to him on that.

It might make sense to start a BB&Q thread on the search issue, if you like, so that you and other members can post links to "missing" threads. That may help track down the cause of the problem.

Or not. Only the Overlord knows for sure.

If you close the thread down because you cannot handle the participants...you may as well close the site down.

What good is a conspiracy site that does not allow the biggest conspiracy of this generation? No good, I will answer that question myself.

Peace

thank you. so many times i check out an intresting thread, see the personal flamations and move on. have you thought about applying this same standard to the ufo forum?

reply to post by spav5


It's really not that hard to be civil toward each other mate. You don't need a degree or anything....

Achieving Closure

Originally posted by spav5
If you close the thread down because you cannot handle the participants...you may as well close the site down.

I agree completely.

We have to strike a balance between being too lenient and too heavy-handed. Both extremes are detrimental to our community, and need to be avoided.

Being aware of that, we generally find ourselves favoring leniency by giving members the benefit of the doubt and recognizing that a website which attracts people who distrust or even hate authority requires some finesse when it comes to board management.

Likewise, over time, the mood and behavior of our community itself tends to vary on its own, and is subject to seasonal variations and shifts based on current events.

What results is a sort of pendulum effect where us mods will crack down now and then, make ominous proclamations, ban a few people, things are fine for a while, slowly deteriorate, then we crack down again. Rinse, repeat.

Personally, I would prefer more consistency, and am considering some proposals for making that happen. But it's always easier said than done, and I've learned over the years that what looks good on paper often produces unintended consequences in the forums.

Ultimately, it's our job to enforce the terms & conditions, and though we do our best, to the extent we let things go downhill, we're failing the community, and we know it.

However, we can't do everything alone. Although ALERTing problem posts is valuable and important, what really counts in the end is a desire on the part of all members to make ATS better and a willingness to play a part in making it better.

A few dozen mods can only do so much (and having too many can actually make things worse), so it's best to consider it a team effort on the part of every ATSer.

Or so I believe.

reply to post by Majic





Sorry Majic..that was intended response the poster above you..thank you for well written response. Peace

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by backinblack
It's still a FACT that they are the ones that would like to see the forum gone.

No such "FACT" is known to exist.

We (ATS) have actually taken more "heat" from "9/11 truthers" for supporting a balanced discussion than those who favor the official story.

And in a recent review of the way people are posting, I must say that supporters of the conspiracies are among the worst offenders right now. Sorry, but that's how it is.

is this post for the media? I saw how the media likes to portray those who disbelieve the OS. they speak so condesending. so is this to be a fellow MSM tycoon? to be accepted by the "club"?

are you suggesting the disposal of this forum? That would be a shame. we know its not inherently evil to be an OSer, we know this because you seem to be one, yet you allow a forum for discussion, this I applaud you for.. however.. for you to say its the non osers causing the problem, is really not necessary. as an owner of this site and forum, you should have been more careful of pointing blame.. why? because like you have admitted, your business boomed after 9/11. so to attack those (attack is loose here) who dont believe OS and say its mostly them and that they are the worst, well... business may crumble. Sure, there are outb ursts, sure there are consistant trouble makers.. are you guys all of a sudden scared to ban people? this is what i hate about society now a days.. instead of punishing the individual guilty, we like to punish everyone.

good luck. I hope things get better for the forum, and your site.