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Conspiracy against true spiritual potential

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posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 10:37 AM
Insightful post. I believe that it's human nature to categorize things in order for us to better understand them. Most people just see in black and white so either you believe in God or you don't to some individuals.
I do believe that whether or not there is a God, there is power in us to rise above injustice, hatred, greed and so on. I do believe that there is some sort of spirit world because I have had first hand experiences (seen ghosts several times, had O.O.B.E's , lucid dreams).
I was raised as a Christian but when I went to college, I changed. No offense to any one here, but some churches that I have been to scare the hell out of me. ( if you haven't seen Jesus Camp look it up on youtube) I believe that some Christian churches have embraced materialism as well. (I have been inside churches that have a Starbucks in them). I began to notice that church was doing nothing for me spritually which is why I stopped going. I am trying to find a way to express my spirituality and to make some sort of connection to the essence of life and being. I have only been successful so far in my dreams.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 11:35 AM
This is probably the best thread I've seen on this site. Great job, Skyfloating. Haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if someone has already said this:

ANYTHING that is merely BELIEVED without 100% ironclad and airtight proof is, and (eventually) will be known as, a RELIGION; which obviously includes atheism/materialism.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:38 PM
I agree with you 100%

In order to keep certain high income officials living comfortably out spiritual potential is drown out by TV shows, movies, games, junk food, toxics, drugs, news, and other meaningless things that only serve to feed into our instinctual desires and keep us "happy".

This has been going on for so long that its basically woven into the conciousness of the current generations! Fear has been instilled into the general public so they can keep fueling the machine. Its sick! Science vs Religion is BS! In reality both sides are controlled by the same people who set the stage to look like a big arguement and thus make it seem like noone really knows the truth when they really do.

If people were to come to realize the human potential and the power that each of us wields there would be a huge revolution and the human self perception would completely change. They ones who are making the money off our ignorance are afraid of this so they work together to maintain the # so it doesnt hit the fan. Humans are becoming lazy mentally, they just want to believe whatever everyone else says is correct so to not be outcasted. Who in their right minds would go against an entire community of christians...? Easier to follow

I do realize what our potential is and i pray more people will just wake up and see the possibilities that we could achieve if we choose spirituality.

Anyways those are my 2 cents.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by miamiHORROR]

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:39 PM
I'm with you on this one. I think of spirituality as a kind of distilled religion, feed of all the cultural and nationalistc baggage. Religion is of the earth. Spirituality is far grander.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 01:47 PM
by Skyfloating (hope I got that correct):

I stopped practicing the normal type of "positive thinking" a long time ago, because it supresses negativity. Paradoxically, supressing negativity only makes it stronger and bigger. Compassion and non-resistance allows it to dissipate, which makes it easier to switch to the positve.

Actually I should say that it is Doctors who wrote those books and self-help tapes (maybe CD's nowadays) back in the '80's. Some people may equate that with New Age Type Ideas. Actually they are proven ideas by Doctors to help people not behave better but to be better and then perhaps more Spiritual. I should state that really they do not give you any more positiveness in the world, as going positive, but just allow a different train of thought so you do not always be negative.

This actually allows you to seek other methods then always complaining about what is going on. Take politics for example. To me, if you wanted me to endorse some political candidate as of now, I would say -- there is no one that I see or hear to vote for in the upcoming Election. Sorry, but if I may be so bold, I see the old habits, and to me, it all sounds good, but in the end -- it is what it is to me -- actually lies because those political candidates are lying to his/her self. They may mean well, but the world may fall apart and they would all say that they were meaning well. To me, they only mean well to themselves, as in thinking that they are actually giving answers or will have an answer to this mess we are in. Of course I can not prove that I have any better answers, so the two trains of thought coming out of both political parties are still what they seem to be. For example, briefly - fight the terrorist (and of course the thought they are creating more terrorists or fighters to the cause) and talk to the terrorists (in which case they regroup and plan another attack). Now, since some people are angry about what they do (they have no religion so why bring it up) and the other (we'll talk them into behaving better for us and them and all of that) point of view may never solve the problem.

What is that one tech in the computer game "Civilization IV" that has Lenord Nimoy citing that phrase? I can't remember but the phrase goes something like this written by someone a long time ago:

"Words have both the power to create and destroy. When words are used with kindness they can create but when used in anger they can destroy." Well, something like that but in the end, it is the way that communications can take place. The feelings may change if the words continue to be that way because with Leaders people will take notice on how they communicate.

So, it is not so much being positive, as being attuned and aware and alert more in the end. Those books like I stated are written by Doctors and others of actually Science. They do not judge anyone but help people who only seek to really help themselves. A lot of people state they are better than that in the first place -- when it is clear at least in my opinion that they are not. There are other methods also brought up back then in the '80's like self-hypnosis and other techniques, but again it is up to the individual how they think they will use those techniques. If done correctly, they can only lead to Spirituality in the end, and not to deviousness that some people still claim to this day that they are not. They are not willing to hear it, and they do not listen, for with all of it, they do not think that they can change the basic personality of his/her self. They limited themselves a long, long time ago, and that was due to all the negative messages they fed his/her self about this world and others.

So, those techniques really do not give positiveness, but raise awareness and perhaps help the person gain a better perspective about how the world could be, if some stubborn attitudes did not come out of people.

Do confuse the issue though. There are still Congress people who do think better than others and that way, but in the end I think that they are not a majority. So life will continue on despite this world and whatever happens, and as a person then survival becomes an important issue, which also can lead to the paranormal and some people just knowing about some issue that may affect that person.

Also the book came out back then that stated also that it is "Moderation" in everything that is done, as with eating, and with habits and with knowing what it is that a person is really doing and thinking. This I guess scares some people because they want to remain to themselves capable of giving theirselves an excuse, but really just should state that "Humans are not Perfect" although a person can strive to be better and hence "Spiritual" according to themselves which may include religion at some point, but not the punishment that usually goes along with religion seemingly turning a lot of people off in the manner of believing that God can be positive about Creating life as humans in the first place, or perhaps as The Bible states about ending all life. Whenever that is, that is God's Decision, but to me He would be breaking His Own Rules and the Word. I think in the end now, that Evil can destroy its self, but may want to take others along because Evil is that way. On the other hand God may not include anyone, but rather give you Free Will to decide for yourself. That all leads then to me at least to "Spirituality", which in the end, no one can take away, even if they did not intend to know the difference. It also does not leave yourself open to the abuse that may come out of some people. It takes a lot of work though through thought to Come into Being. And Humans are and may not ever be Perfect in that Respect.

Take it with a grain of salt then. It is searching for a way to teach people to become better, and although that is the general thought, the world still is the way that it is in the end. Avoid the traps, and move on. That is all a person can do.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 03:04 PM

Originally posted by leira7
I am trying to find a way to express my spirituality and to make some sort of connection to the essence of life and being. I have only been successful so far in my dreams.

You say "only" in your dreams. So youve almost already fallen for religion/sciences outlook on dreams which says they are...

unreal, unimportant, unstubstantial, non-solid, not-meaningful

I bet its just the other way around.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 03:06 PM
It’s human nature to try and correct something you perceive to be wrong. Either destroy, avoid, or correct that which you find disagreeable. In the face of fear, life will avoid. In the name of dominance, it will destroy. In the spirit of love, it will try to correct. Religion and atheism often fall into the hands of those who seek dominance. It is natural in a society run by dominance. I don’t think the problem is with religions and atheism as much as it is with society. People will have their separate beliefs and when you leave that to itself, it is spirituality.

No one can prove a belief, but when people are out their waving them around like facts it pushes otherwise right minded people into playing the game because of the natural reactions to ignorance I stated above. Everyone ultimately figures out their own truth. That’s the conspiracy you’re talking about. Keep people debating “the truth“ while never calming down to actually see what is real.

Materialism is necessary to society which is necessary to the individual in today’s populated world. We are dependant on each other and need certain group understandings. I don’t think spirituality is one of those understandings. As soon as you teach about one belief system you are excluding another. Spirituality is an entirely personal thing. The problem with religion is that it incorporates more than just spirituality. It has definitions for spiritual ideas and there is no place for hard line definitions in true spirituality because a definition implies everything else is wrong. Facts are good but there are no spiritual facts.

Most atheists only get involved because they are offended that you would teach something that is not fact. I can’t say they are wrong. It’s an obvious problem and cycle to some, the hard part is finding a solution everyone can agree upon. In the process of trying to do that, most people just form different religions and it adds to the confusion which is the problem. The problem with atheists is they operate purely on facts and try to get involved with something where facts don’t exist. Preachers want everyone to be saved and atheists want no one to be lied to. If both sides would compromise certain things, they could both achieve their goals.

One of the biggest issues is religion in school and forcing kids to go to church. Now this might sound extreme, but the only solution I see would be to treat all organized religions as cults. Leave their Holy Books readily available to all who wish to read them and talk to their own children about them, but don’t let people try to interpret them to the masses, spirituality doesn’t work like that, it needs to be figured out on your own and preachers just slow people down with their own interpretations. Teach about spiritual concepts, techniques in mental betterment, and cause and effect morality in school and you don‘t need churches. Take a much more neutral and fact based position on everything that is taught to young people. That’s all people need to be saved. They need to know what is fact, and how to deal with speculation. Better incorporating psychology into social studies would help a great deal too.

Another big issue is morality and mortality and that is where the need to preach mostly comes from in religion. They preach to be good out of fear and that is a flawed and dangerous system. People are told they need to act a certain way out of fear of repercussions. When they no longer fear those repercussions they sometimes throw away morals. If you teach them the real reasons why they need to behave a certain way, they will never question it because they can test it on a daily basis.

I’ve heard everything from both sides, but that’s just my opinion on the subject. The problem as I see it is that no one really knows how to listen. Most people are so insecure that they need their spiritual beliefs or disbeliefs written in stone. That makes them attack the beliefs they disagree with in an un winnable argument. Fixing it is completely doable, all you have to do is overcome the dominance reaction and it will work itself out. But that is kind of hard in a world run by climbing to the top of the ladder. Fear is the deepest root. When you become humble, you know you’ve cut it because only confidence can make you humble.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 03:41 PM
reply to post by Skyfloating

what is your true spiritual potential ?-----------------biblically it is to be changed from human into a new creature in/by Messiah------to become a G-D Being and part of Their family----------you are right----------how many churches do you know of that teach such a thing?------------and if you might know 1 or 2 they usually have disagreements between themselves---------------showing an attitude for us to see thats a turn off-------------well if thats what G-Ds people are like then they can keep it------------i dont know everything--------but from what i do know--------i wouldnt want to be the member of any church that i have checked into yet----------i'd sooner be standing outside the door with Messiah knocking on their doors seeing if He can get their attentions---------revelation 3;20 behold I(Messiah)stand at your door and knock;if anyone hears My voice and opens the door,Iwill come into him and will dine with him,and he with me.if you want to connect with the Creator of the universe-----------forget the churches------------your connection with G-D is a personal private matter and no-body elses buisness.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 03:47 PM
"Contrary to atheism/materialism, spirituality encourages:

To train onseself to focus ones mind and meditate

To seek joy as a first-hand experience

To consider not only what can be seen and measured, but possibilties beyond that"

Wow, that's offensive. If that is what you assume the major tenants of Atheism are, I suggest you do more research before expressing your views.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:07 PM
reply to post by WarrenPiece

Years of reading atheism vs. religion threads on ATS has been enough research for me, thanks.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:11 PM
reply to post by captainplanet

I think your post pretty much hits the spot captain. As do many posts to here.

I think atheists themselves do know that their entire construct is a mere reaction to religion...and that a view based on reactive-ness is not exactly creative.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:13 PM
reply to post by yahn goodey

hello yahn. What I always wanted to ask you and never dared: Do you think that punctuation in sentences disturbs the flow of thought?

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:41 PM
reply to post by Skyfloating

being the lazy person that i am and not the best speller on this planet -------------------is a faster way to get thru typing this out---------you do understand what i'm saying?---------i hope------------i dont envy anyone else nor do i want to be like anyone else-----------i want to be me-----------------thats ok isnt it?not trying to be rude---------just trying to be me

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:44 PM
replying to the subject...all I can say is makes alot of sense... I think. I am 23, and find myself asking more questions than ever before. i have been coming to this site for the past 3 months or so and have read alot on different topics and the replys from the members here at ats.... some of these have been humurous, some ridiculous and some interesting. I never saw a reason to post until I came across this subject. i have a question...what IS this true spirituality that you mention? and how do you attain it?

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:53 PM
this thread kind of coincides with that movie what the bleep do we know? down the rabbit hole
best thing i have read on ats..thanks!

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:54 PM
reply to post by yahn goodey

no, I find it cool. I was just curious as to where you got it from. I am not sure typing this: ---------- is easier than typing this: .

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 04:57 PM

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
replying to the subject...all I can say is makes alot of sense... I think. I am 23, and find myself asking more questions than ever before. i have been coming to this site for the past 3 months or so and have read alot on different topics and the replys from the members here at ats.... some of these have been humurous, some ridiculous and some interesting. I never saw a reason to post until I came across this subject. i have a question...what IS this true spirituality that you mention? and how do you attain it?

Well...if I start answering that question in detail, I will become a cult guru. The whole point of spirituality is to gain a level of self-responsibility and power so that you can answer these questions yourself.

The mere ACT of first posing the question and then answering it yourself is a spiritual technique.

So the answers I give have to be very general and non-directing. Such as:


Direct your thinking, speaking, writing and acting in a conscious way and into the directions that are important to your soul.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by Skyfloating]

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 05:24 PM
reply to post by Skyfloating

It's a good thing ATS doesn't offer diplomas then. I guess I've learned a lot myself that's based on facts posted here. Let's see...reptilian humandoids underground, 57 races of aliens fighting over humanity, soul machines on the moon, bases on the moon, the moon is artificial, we've never been on the moon, we go to the moon constantly...heck, I'm a moonologist thanks to ATS. Oh and the world's going to end in December of 2012. Think of the sales we're all going to miss on January 1, 2013!
Sorry to sound like a typical "atheist", but it sounds ludicrous you base your info on bulletin boards.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 05:30 PM
reply to post by WarrenPiece

Well, you have a point there.

Please notice my disclaimer a few pages back. I have no problem with atheists.

My true intent with this thread is to show that there is a third alternative to the endless "God vs. NoGod" debate...

I mean, look at the Religion-Forum....look at that damn is overflowing with atheists and christians and hardly any of us spiritual and new-age types there.

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 05:35 PM
It's more than that....its essential that one takes Jesus Christ as Savior. ..good works is not a way to Heaven alone...

reply to post by blueorder

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