Nasa Scientist: The Artic is screaming - gone by 2012!

Mirror,

Thank you.

All I have done is apply "common sense" to all this nonsense.

I don't know if you have ever seen the movie "the american president". It's got Anette Benning, Michael Douglas as "the pres" michael j fox, and martin sheen just to name a few.

Now, I DON'T want to get political but, that's what this is about and let me clarify...Stay with me....

Now, this movie is nothing but a big liberal show piece. It's got all the typical liberal issues; gun control, "evil republicans" Blah, blah, blah, you get the hint.

But, one of the big story lines is the girlfriend - annette benning as a lobbyist for an environmental group who are trying to get a bill passed through congress to reduce greenhouse gases by 20 or 30% - and of course, it is the good look'n, widower democrat president who takes up her cause...blah, blah...blah.

Now, here is my point, This movie was made in 1995. And in the movie this lobbyist has said that the organiztion she "lobbys" for has been on the government for 20years to do something about "greenhouse gases".

So, if we total up the years with this global warming nonsense, lets say its been going on for the last 37 years....

HOW COME I'M NOT WALKING AROUND IN KNEE HIGH RUBBER BOOTS?

It makes NO SENSE at all.

You know, if the wheather is changing, the wheather is changing. We have absolutely no control over it.

Let's look at something that proves "WE" have no control over nature and that we can somehow "fix" nature.

Mt. St. Helen's. Check out the volcano cam - very cool!!

www.fs.fed.us...

It blew up in 1980. Total devistation for several miles around. And today, the forest surrounding the volcano is growing back, animals have returned to the area, the surrounding area is returning to what it was.

My point is, nature knows what it's doing, it don't need no help from man.

Now, why is it when we speak of global warming, the same reasoning does not apply? Wheather the planet is warming, cooling, freezing or taking a crap - it don't need our help.

This reminds me of all the "Big Bug" movies that came out in the years after the A-bomb tests. Same type of hysteria.

I could go on, but, you get what I'm saying.

@ProfTom:

The points you make are excellent.

Chernobyl is an excellent example of nature surviving "extreme" conditions. It may kill us humans, sure, but it can't kill NATURE. I'll say it again: nature is bigger than we are.

Did you know that they've found bacteria living in the cores of operational nuclear reactors??

When it comes to nature, humans should butt out - we're just souped up chimpanzees in the scheme of things, but because of all of our technological "achievements", we're getting to be very arrogant ad think we're better than anything else out there, but we're not. Nature will one day stamp its foot on us, and we'll be gone. When and how has yet to be seen, but it will happen - it happened to the Dinosaurs (to name one major example of mass extinction).

[edit on 12-12-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

reply to post by Rhain


I guess the story below really means that the scientists know nothing when it comes to global warming.

Arctic ice refreezing at record pace!

The record melting of Arctic sea ice observed this summer and fall led to record-low levels of ice in both September and October, but a record-setting pace of re-freezing in November, according to the NASA Earth Observatory. Some 58,000 square miles of ice formed per day for 10 days in late October and early November, a new record.

So much for all the global warming hoopla.

Mirage,

Thank you. I don't like to argue about this stuff but you see my point. We are nothing. We are insignificant beings on this rock.

I took a geology class in college some 20 years ago and this subject came up. You know what the professor did to explain this?

He drew a big circle on the blackboard and in the center wrote "EARTH"

He then drew in the land masses and oceans...

On one of the land masses "asia" he put a tiny dot not even as big as the tip of the piece of chalk he was using.

He then said - and I'll never forget this - "This dot represents man on the planet. Man is the most insignificant animal on the face of the planet - "Bugs" outnumber us 1,000,000, to 1, to think that we can do anything to affect the "climate" of this planet is nothing more than our own arrogance. The planet has been here before man and will be here after we are gone".

So, who do I believe? Al - I have no scientific training - Gore or a PHd who was a full professor in my college?

I guess we'll know in, what is it 2012 now? It's gonna be a long couple of years....

Interesting original source article. I still cannot understand why some posters are still buying into the manmade global warming arguement to implement a worldwide carbon dioxide tax. The fact that other planets in our solar system are too heating up and changing due to the increased solar activity from one of the biggest influences on our planet, the sun. Below is an article from 2001 from Space.com, just one of many.

I think that the melting of the artic is part of the 22 year Sunspot cycle, which we are in the part of the cycle where the sunspot and solar activity is on the increase. Proof of this has been shown in the analysis of ice core samples. There is a natural pattern of Global warming and cooling which is generated by the normal cycle of solar activity.

Human activity on this planet does have an minimal effect but not to the extent to what politicians and corporate officers lead you to believe. The effect on the other hand is growing as the rate of pollution is growing, perhaps encouraged by corporations, the worlds largest polluters.

The question you have to ask is what do the politicians and corporations have to gain by promoting the Manmade Global Warming agenda? Worldwide taxation, Increased or maintained control, the general population paying through taxation for corpotations to rape the planet and gain profits to put in more control measures.

There is a underlying problem, this is the lack of environmental accountability corporations have as they fund and buy influence in countries worldwide.

The individual human being or family has a very small carbon footprint compared to even a small company. To tax an individual for carbon dioxide emmissions is a tax on breathing. Whereas companies use more energy, resources and pollute more indirectly through distribution networks, paper wastage amonst other examples.

Really interesting subject matter, my comliments to the Op.

www.space.com...

That new British Sub that can stay under water for 25 years and make its own oxygen and drinking water is lookin good about now. Bet you coulda got some good coin for one of these babies around approx 4000 b.c.

What bothers me about Global Warming Deniers is that they don't want to do anything about the changes happening to our planet right now. Sure, maybe it isn't pollution from human activity, maybe it is the sun, but what are we going to do about it?

First let me say I'm not a climate expert. And YES, we are not the reason for Global Warming. That being said. We are responsible for accelerating the normal cycle. The sea ice at the poles is important, it acts as a sort of air conditioner. Deflecting sunlight back into space and helping to equalize the temperature difference between the poles and the equator(yes I know there are a lot of other factors), but in general terms that's what the polar ice does. Remember that if you look at the earth as one big ecosystem there has to be a system of balance. However, more CO2 in the air means that the deflected sunlight at the poles is not able to escape back into space. It therefore remains in the atmosphere raising the temperature.

Now to everyone wondering why Manhattan or Florida isn't under water because of the rising sea levels due to polar ice melting, the answer is simple enough. With the increase in sea temperatures at the equator and ocean temps in general and also the increase in air temperature causes more and more water to evaporate into the atmosphere. This massive increase in moisture causes the weather patterns to change, thus producing stronger storms(as evidenced by the last few Hurricane/Cyclone/Typhoon seasons). Major storms such as these are also a sort of air conditioner pulling warm, moist air from the equator/tropical regions and distributing heat/energy towards the cooler poles. A show I saw on Discovery elluded to the fact that these major systems are mother nature's way of trying to cool the equatorial regions and re-establish the equalibrium. The show also had solid evidence that hurricanes will get much worse than cat 5 and could even get as bad as double that. They proved this by taking core samples far inland on low-lying shorelines like Florida which showed massive deposits of sand, coral fragments that could only have come from massive storm surges to the likes that we have never seen. And it happened at fairly even intervals.

Some people will read the last line of the above paragraph and say "See I told you mankind didn't start this Global Warming BS!" As I've said before, it is a natural cycle. However, with our pollution we have compressed this natural cycles timeline into a much shorter period and disrupting Mother Nature's natural way of dealing with it.

I truly feel we've jump started the next ice age by several thousand years as Mother Nature may not be able to return the balance before another E.L.E.(Extinction Level Event) occurs. We may survive it, as Cromagnum Man did once before. But it won't be pretty.

Hope this helped explain the significance of polar ice and how one thing out of whack in Earths ecosystem has a ripple effect. CHAOS THEORY IS GOOD.

Later,

Deez

Ok, i just read thru only two posts, and i wonder if anyone heard George Noory with Stan Quayle. Anyhow, Stan said that among many things this government and other governments are doing is MELT THE ICE IN THE ARTIC CIRCLE. The reason is that it is a race between the US/ China and Russia to lay claim to this spot. Most of you know recently Putin was already claiming that area.

I dont know how true this is, but i wouldnt be surprised. If you go to Noory's highlights of the past couple of weeks, you will probably be able to read about this.

Sorry about the no links and this just being what i "heard" on the show. Try StanQuayle.com

[edit on 12-12-2007 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by rizla
What bothers me about Global Warming Deniers is that they don't want to do anything about the changes happening to our planet right now. Sure, maybe it isn't pollution from human activity, maybe it is the sun, but what are we going to do about it?

Just what do you propose that we do about the Sun? Most are in favor of a cleaner environment, improved energy efficiency, conservation and recycling but I'm afraid there is little that I can do to stop the Sun. As Tom Petty notes:

Can't stop the sun from shining
Shining down and down and down




[edit on 12/12/2007 by TheAvenger]

…No Changes Are Permanent

But Change Is…..

I think global warming is natural, and is a good thing. Warmer temperatures mean more moisture in the air, and thus greater agricultural opportunities. Sure, areas of fertility may change, but that there will be more of them is a certainty. The last warming period gave birth to the renaissance. I say bring it on. Profit and power seeking fear mongers notwithstanding.

***warning (this may be offensive to some)*** This may sound cold hearted, and revolting.


I hope the poles do melt, Wash Away Congress, and all corrupt leaders.
No Pole = No North Korea
No Ice Caps = No Southern Iran
Inhabitable Artic = No Screwy System Locked in place for U.S.
+Better Fishing
+More Water Mass = Lowered Earth Temperatures
etc.

I'm sure their are millions of pros and cons to the Artic being gon by 2012, i'm just trying to be optimistic on the doomsday prediction that may be backed by science. In the event That this should happen, seek high ground, avoid all coast lines from a range of 50-75+ miles (including the mississipi river), survival skills is a must. and expect martial law.

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
I guess the story below really means that the scientists know nothing when it comes to global warming.

Arctic ice refreezing at record pace!

The record melting of Arctic sea ice observed this summer and fall led to record-low levels of ice in both September and October, but a record-setting pace of re-freezing in November, according to the NASA Earth Observatory. Some 58,000 square miles of ice formed per day for 10 days in late October and early November, a new record.

So much for all the global warming hoopla.

Tardis,

It seems you failed to ‘clip’ the next few lines from that article. It states,

“Still, the extent of sea ice (re-freeze) recorded in November was well shy of the median extent observed over the past quarter century, as the image from Nov. 14 (above, right - image in article) shows.”

...Oh and what happened to your bobbing three amigos avatar

-scrap


[edit on 12-12-2007 by scrapple]

Originally posted by dgtempe
Ok, i just read thru only two posts, and i wonder if anyone heard George Noory with Stan Quayle. Anyhow, Stan said that among many things this government and other governments are doing is MELT THE ICE IN THE ARTIC CIRCLE. The reason is that it is a race between the US/ China and Russia to lay claim to this spot. Most of you know recently Putin was already claiming that area.

I dont know how true this is, but i wouldnt be surprised. If you go to Noory's highlights of the past couple of weeks, you will probably be able to read about this.

Sorry about the no links and this just being what i "heard" on the show. Try StanQuayle.com

[edit on 12-12-2007 by dgtempe]

wow, makes perfect sense. why didnt i think of it earlier? Good leaders and rulers always think for the care and safety of their people, mainly by peering on events to come meeting them head on.

Putin is no fool, IF you checked the news recently many Americans would classify Putin as an potential enemy for his rebelious acts against persistant measures by the U.S, Such as the alledged "Missile Defense System" placed in the regional area (If i were in his position i would of made the same call, He doesn't know what the Hell are in those "defense" systems even there isnt a front, accepting militarization of your area with a rival nation that considers you an enemy is just plain asking for suicide)

From the couch perspective Putin is just another dictator, From the informed perspective Putin is key strategic chess player who far differs from others labeled in that category.

After reading months ago about Putin seizing the artic for "no apparent" reason, i dismissed it and moved on in life. By just swinging by this thread i discovered more than just a scientists opinion of the Earth changing matter. It could very well prove that Our near future will be Well ravaged by something else than War, But races to Rising continents, lands untouched by Humans for thousands of years, who knows of the real possibilities 10-50 years down the road.

things to consider:

-US Gov Facilities Increasing On US soil within the last 30 years.
-Scientific Claims.
-Such events forfill prophecy
-Actions Taken By Foriegn Governments.

But This is Fishy Real Fishy, Pieces are falling in place....what if the oceans rise?

this is worthy of another thread (i'm no master collaborator) but for the moment i am unwilling to gather sources due to my laziness.

[edit on 12/12/07 by Obsurion]

The Antartic on the other hand.....is another story......

Originally posted by Bluess
This reminds me... didnt the Mayans call the new cycle we are entering "Aquarius"?

I'm sure the Mayans knew Latin!

I don't think this is anything to do with the Mayan 'prophecies', and more to do with the here and now...it's a shame we feel the need, even latently, to abuse our natural resources and systems to such an extent that we now see these 'pigeons' coming home to roost.

[edit on 12-12-2007 by AotearoaSon]

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by Rhain


Edit - BTW I did see Waterworld, I thought I was the only one (I liked it too).

Me too. Loved it. Never understood why it got so slated. Thought it was one of Costner's best roles

Add me to the list of folks who liked Waterworld. I think critics didn't like it and then you have the usual sheep who regurgitate the same sentiment. There are people who believe what they read in newspapers....literally!

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
reply to post by Rhain

 

I guess the story below really means that the scientists know nothing when it comes to global warming.

Arctic ice refreezing at record pace!

The record melting of Arctic sea ice observed this summer and fall led to record-low levels of ice in both September and October, but a record-setting pace of re-freezing in November, according to the NASA Earth Observatory. Some 58,000 square miles of ice formed per day for 10 days in late October and early November, a new record.

So much for all the global warming hoopla.

Well if there is record levels of water (melted ice from the summer) then this means there's record opportunities for re-freezing DUH! Let me say that again DUH! Jesus talk about desperation. Bottom line: the arctic is melting and melting far faster then previously estimated. No amount of "record re-freezing" will alter the fact that Arctic summers will be ice free. The net average annual ice cover is reducing which is what is important.

Oh and Greenland is melting as well far faster than they had previously estimated. In fact Greenland ice is not only melting but sliding into the sea which makes the rate of melting look insignificant in comparison. Now that will affect sea levels.

And just to add to this melting pot we have millions and millions of gallons of fresh water floating on the salt water which will have as yet unknown affect on global sea currents which then affects the climate in many many countries. It could be warmer, colder, wetter, drier who knows but significantly different it most definitely will be.

Personally, I don't buy the old sky is falling scenario. So the ice melts and the water rises. The water freezes and levels drop, life adapts. This has happened without question for many eons before man. We as humans for one reason or another always believe that EVERYTHING either revolves around or happens because of us. We're also to ignorant and terrified to admit that perhaps there are things beyond our comprehension or control.

My personal view may seem outlandish and decidedly off topic but why not? There are many forms of life on Earth and each and every one of them are related by way of genetic and evolutionary lines. Different forms of Earth life while they may appear different on the surface are fundamentally built from the same materials and have the same exact goal.

The purpose of life is simply to live, to spread, reproduce and flourish. There have been many variations of the vessel but the passenger (life) remains forever the same. As it stands now humanity is life's best chance at expanding beyond conventional boundries and populating the vastness that is the cosmos. Will humanity be the vehicle that carries life abroad or the ship that sinks half way to sea? In all probability and sadly enough for our self centered egos, neither. We are little more then an experiment being conducted by life and in many ways the Earth itself. Rest assured that if life's investment in humanity does not pay off it will cut it's losses and move on without so much as a hiccup.

I also realize that I am in all probability 100% incorrect. I do however accept that fact. But then again facts are little more then assumptions based upon other facts. Eventually as you follow the chain of facts you realize that everything we know is based upon the one true fact. The keystone.

We know nothing.

It is scary never the less!