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Boeing P-8A Poseidon Testing and Production thread

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posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 02:25 PM
Well with the news today I desided it was time to create a new thread for a new stage in the devlopment testing and production of the P-8 Poseidon maritime-patrol aircraft, a derivative of the Next Generation 737.

The first P-8 is one of five – three flight-test aircraft and two ground-test airframes – to be built under the system development and demonstration (SDD) programme. Fuselages for P-8s and commercial 737s will be produced on the same line at Spirit.

The testing of the Airframe models in the wind tunnel along with computer simulations are completed to the point that the team has taken this next step. For more info on the wind tunnel test follow in the link.

Changes to the 737 line required for the P-8 include procedures to comply with the security restrictions of US International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) and additional side stations to assemble and install the fuselage weapons bay

They don't mention the changes to the raked wingtips and the wingstructure but then again this is just to the way they handle the 737 production line.

Again I really hope Canada looks into these aircraft as if the US is working ahead with them due to age of the P-3s then Canada will be in the same boat really soon and with the same amount of coast line as the US and problems with oil tankers and illegal fishing and the military surveillance is something that isn't going to change.

The US Navy plans to buy 108 P-8As, with initial operational capability scheduled for 2013.

[edit on 22/08/06 by Canada_EH]

posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 02:39 PM
personally i would think a evolution of a bear like concept would be better for a maritime patrol aircraft. There have been plenty of new developments iirc and because these kind of turboprop systems are much more fuel efficient and thus increase range are much better for these kinds of aircraft.

posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 03:48 PM
reply to post by tomcat ha

Well lets look at that shall we? Always open to other ideas and thoughts. Though I'm not looking to turn this into a P-8 vs Tu-95 thread.

P-8 (no range I can find)
Max Fuel Capacity: 75,169 pounds
Max Zero Fuel Weight: 138,300 pounds
Max Cruise Altitude: 41,000 feet
Max Cruise Speed: 490 KTAS (True Air Speed)
Max Range Cruise Speed: 440 KTAS (True Air Speed)

side note: It also includes 6 additional body fuel tanks, three in the forward cargo compartment and three in the rear, for extended range. These are manufactured by Marshall Aerospace in Cambridge, UK

Tu-95 (anyone have Tu-140 info?)
Maximum speed: 925 km/h (500 kt, 575 mph)
Range: 15,000 km (8,100 nm, 9,400 mi)
Max takeoff weight: 188,000 kg (414,500 lb)
Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,000 ft

I'm just sorta struck by the fact of why have a bomber do this job? is it over kill? Also the issue raised by you tomcat is valid but was looked at by the contract team and they sorta thought this.(DID isn't the gov but address the point well)

Lockheed may have had a point re: sustained turboprop performance, but the thought of plugging into the skills and maintenance base that supports the huge global 737 fleet was very appealing – and the 737 had just demonstrated what the Navy apparently considered "good enough" performance. Its speed would also give it faster response time.

[edit on 22/08/06 by Canada_EH]

posted on Dec, 13 2007 @ 07:53 AM
reply to post by Canada_EH

Well we have more news this time from Boeing.

"The P-8A fuselage sections will be built using our standard processes, which in the end means lower costs and shorter flow-times," said Buck Buchanan, Spirit AeroSystems vice president/general manager, Fuselage Structures and Systems. "Spirit employees know how important this program is to the Navy, and we are excited to be part of an outstanding team tasked with building the P-8A."

Boeing's industry team is currently performing the program's System Development and Demonstration phase, which includes building five test vehicles: three flight-test and two ground-test aircraft. The first test aircraft will be delivered to the Navy and fly in 2009.

Nothing really that we didn't know before.

posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 07:03 AM
I seriously doubt this P8 has a faster response time than the Tu95. The Tu95 cruises at a speed of like 900 kmph.

posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 07:12 AM
Any one know if the UK has any plans to replace our Nimrods (which seriously need replacing) with these Poseidons?

posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 11:23 PM
reply to post by Now_Then

Nimrod MRA4

In December 1996, BAE Systems were awarded a £2bn contract for the remanufacturing of 21 Nimrod MR mk2 aircraft to the new Nimrod MRA4 (Nimrod 2000) specification including new mission, sensor and avionics systems. In February 2002, the UK Ministry of Defence reduced this number to 18 aircraft, citing a perceived reduction in the submarine threat. In July 2004, the UK Ministry of Defence announced that this number was to be further reduced to 12 aircraft.

there you go mate hope that helps

posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 08:06 AM
Tu-142 Bear-F Stats:

IIRC, the Indian Navy was also offered the P-8A derivative(P-8I)..
as a replacement for the IL-38 and NOT the Tu-142.
So some indications there.

posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Daedalus3
IIRC, the Indian Navy was also offered the P-8A derivative(P-8I)..
as a replacement for the IL-38 and NOT the Tu-142.
So some indications there.

Your right and as I said that is because your comparing 2 planes with completely different goals and different ways of use in theater.

P-8: 490 kts (907 km/h)
Tu-142: 500 knots (925 km/h).

Big diff eh? No not really in all honesty of speed as per tomcat ha's statement and as for loiter time look at the diminsions of the 2 planes. We are on 2 different playing fields.

Length - 129 ft
Wingspan - 117 ft
Height - 42 ft

Length - 162 ft
Wingspan - 167 ft
Height - 39 ft

Also the fact is that I already answered the question of why the USAF and USN have given their blessing to this aircraft. Its a 737-800 airframe!! maitenince and replacement parts are so much cheaper then a new airframe with limits to how long you keep up part production etc. If you want to further pursue this thought I'll continue to tell you the same thing.

Oh and thanks for the specs link Daedalus3.

[edit on 22/08/06 by Canada_EH]

posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 11:23 AM

You can make a 737 cruise significantly faster if you want.
Published figures are typically ECON.

posted on Dec, 17 2007 @ 02:15 PM
On the subject of Canadas postion with its CP-140s

So Canada faces two hurdles if it were to choose the Orion rebuild route. Many of the proposals were based on potential production runs of at least 50 aircraft. Even if all 18 Aurora were to be replaced (and that’s a big if ) the order would not be big enough to warrant production.....

Were a few low-hour P-3s to emerge, rebuilding them would be expensive and the finished product little better than the Aurora.

Personally I think they need to look into buying 20 of the P-8s come 2015-6. Any figures on unit cost that anyone knows off hand or have they not ventured there yet?

posted on Dec, 18 2007 @ 04:26 AM
reply to post by Canada_EH

Australia are looking at two options and will probably use both.

AIR 7000: PHASES 1B and 2B

Phase 1B - Multi-mission Unmanned Aerial System (MUAS) - is intended to acquire High Altitude Long Endurance Unmanned Aerial Systems for maritime patrol and other surveillance.

Phase 2B - Maritime Patrol Aircraft - is intended to provide the manned component of the ADF maritime patrol capability that may involve upgrade or replacement of the AP-3C Orion aircraft.

FOUR KEY PLATFORMS HUNTING DOWN BAMS: Northrop Grumman’s RQ-4N will utilise the Block 20 UAV platform that is a significant
improvement over legacy ‘Global Hawk’ air vehicles in terms of reliability. Lockheed Martin’s enhanced GA-ATS ‘Predator B’, or new ‘Mariner'
offers much lower acquisition costs than competitors, whilst Boeing’s ‘optionally-manned’ Gulfstream 550 UAV will leverage its huge commercial
success and growing military take up, like these G550s in Airborne Early Warning and ELINT configurations. The preferred BAMS solution will be
partnered with Boeing’s P-8A ‘Poseidon’ multi-mission maritime aircraft, which is a lead contender to replace the RAAF’s AP-3C ‘Orion’
fleet via phase 2 of project Air 7000.

Australia has indicated preference to the P-8A as the manned component.

posted on Dec, 19 2007 @ 11:42 AM
Well looks like Canada is keeping the CP-140 around for another 12 years or so. The DND just announced today that they have lifted the work stop on the modernization program for the 10 CP-140 that are in different stages of being reworked.

The Department of National Defence today confirmed its commitment to the Aurora fleet through continued modernization and structural upgrades, keeping the aircraft flying until 2020. As part of the Government of Canada’s pledge to ensure the Canadian Forces have the equipment they need and provide value for taxpayers’ dollars, the Aurora modernization will ensure that the CF continues to protect Canada’s maritime and northern sovereignty.

As part of its reexamination of long-term projects, the Department has rescinded a work suspension and moved forward with the next phase of Aurora modernization which will incorporate radar, computer and other systems on Aurora aircraft. Core structural upgrades will also be carried out to ensure the longevity and safe operation of these 10 aircraft.

Looks like the CF may try and catch the tail end of production of the P-8 line. Or look into other options? Either way its a development that will effect P-8 sales and clear up some CF issues for the time being.

posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 09:25 AM
reply to post by Daedalus3

The IN P-8I Deal seems to be in the final stages of price negotiations:

The P-8i, based on the Boeing-737 commercial airliner, has out-performed the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company's A-319 maritime patrol aircraft and other contenders in meeting 'qualitative requirements' in the technical trials held by the Navy. "The contract will be signed soon. The first P-8i will be delivered within 48 months, that is in mid-2012 and all the eight by mid-2015. They will replace the Navy's eight aging Tupolev-142Ms," said a source.

India, incidentally, had earlier rejected the US offer to lease two P-3C Orion reconnaissance aircraft under a $133-million contract. India, of course, remains unhappy over the American decision to sell eight more P-3C Orion aircraft to Pakistan, which already has two such planes in its inventory. Once it's inked, the P-8i deal worth around $2 billion will be the biggest-ever defence contract with the US, a minor player in the lucrative Indian arms market so far.

So they are a replacement for the Tu-142M Bears?

posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 11:17 AM
reply to post by Daedalus3

It would make sense to me just in a cost operations stand point if you buy one the other retires. But yeah form your source and a bit of wiki and so on it seems the offer is on the table but very little in hints about how it would impact Tu-142M role and so on.

posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 07:42 AM
Neat little bit of news on the possible sales of the P-8 to India for its maritime patrol aircraft needs to replace ageing Ilyushin Il-38s by year 2013.

New Delhi has been in price negotiations with Boeing for the $2 billion, eight-aircraft requirement since December, while officials from EADS Casa - which is leading a rival bid based on the Airbus A319 - have not heard from Indian officials.

With the bids due to expire on 31 March, sources close to the defence ministry expect a deal with Boeing to be sealed soon. "If necessary, the ministry could ask the candidates to extend the deadline by a few months. - but they want to wrap this up as soon as possible," says one source.

posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 07:55 AM
they could use Tu-142M as missile carriers if replaced.
Radar-controlled Guns: 1 or 2× AM-23 23 mm cannon in tail turret
Missiles: Up to 15,000 kg (33,000 lb), including the Kh-20, Kh-22, Kh-26, and Kh-55 air-to-surface missiles

posted on May, 9 2008 @ 07:29 AM
Just heard rumor that there may have been a redesign to the wing of the P-8. Can anyone confirm this? If I find anything I'll be sure to update.

-Actually just found an article on flight global but it seems the link is broken. Will see if they get it fixed but for the time being I still can't confirm the rumor.

posted on May, 12 2008 @ 06:48 PM
Well the root of this rumor may have been that the P-8 is now winged! I don't see any real info that anything has really changed in its design. The next major P-8A assembly milestone will be engine installation this summer and flight testing should begin in 09.

Those raked wing-tips are extremely distinctive and add a lot to the visual impact of the military version of the 737-8. My opinion

Boeing [NYSE: BA] joined the wing assembly and fuselage of the first P-8A Poseidon for the U.S. Navy on May 1 in Renton, Wash. Boeing Integrated Defense Systems (IDS) and Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) are working together to build the P-8A, a military derivative of the 737-800, on a new final assembly line. The factory's third line takes advantage of the proven efficiencies, manufacturing processes and performance of the highly reliable Next-Generation 737.

The Navy plans to purchase 108 P-8As to replace its fleet of P-3C aircraft. Initial operational capability is slated for 2013. The P-8A will provide increased capability in long-range anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by Canada_EH]

posted on May, 12 2008 @ 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Canada_EH
Just heard rumor that there may have been a redesign to the wing of the P-8. Can anyone confirm this? If I find anything I'll be sure to update.

I do know they went from the winglets to the cranked wingtips because fo the need for internal de-icing systems. Beyond that I have not heard of many changes

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