Any ATS Members Familiar with the Golden Dawn?

Tamahu & ML

id like both your interpretations of "The Perfect Matrimony" by Samael Aun Weor

Are we to believe specifically any spilling is wrong, what if its for reproduction? I would assume one can be a student and propagate life and or want children etc.

Also,I have read a scientific journal speak of sex without orgasm being beneficial because it creates a balance between dopamine and prolactin otherwise lost after orgasm. www.reuniting.info...

However according to the text by Samael Aun Weor even spilling once will set you back 10 years. This seems a little too rigid.


So how is a student to begin, without the fear of failing....I would presume one would fail even if determined at the beginning and this is something you can lear over time with the right wife


Confused on those premises.

Originally posted by romanowski
Are we to believe specifically any spilling is wrong, what if its for reproduction? I would assume one can be a student and propagate life and or want children etc.

This is answered here:


Can one have children while practicing sexual magic?

However according to the text by Samael Aun Weor even spilling once will set you back 10 years. This seems a little too rigid.

I've never heard that.


According to the teachings of the V.M. Samael Aun Weor, if we spill the Cup of Hermes on accident, the Kundalini falls(if it has been Raised at all) the number of vertabrae according to the intensity of the orgasm.

It is taught that the Atom Nous and the Lords of Karma(aspects of our own Being) know the contents of our Heart.

But if we spill intentionally, we lose everything: Initiations, Powers, Positive-Siddhis, etc.; and have to work all the harder to stand Upright again.

If we withdraw from the sexual act long before the orgasm begins, the danger is obviously not there. And it is taught that we can build up stamina by slowly increasing the duration of the Alchemy session a little more each day.

It is the Path of the Razor's Edge, and is no different than what is taught by authentic Brahmins like Swami Sivananda, H.H. the Dalai Lama, etc.

In fact, the Mahasiddha known most for teaching the Madhyamika(Middle Way) School of Buddhism, Nagarjuna, is usually depicted with Seven Kundalini Serpents Raised above is head. Even though he taught the Middle Way without extremes, he taught the same Path of the Razor's Edge which is the Spinal Column; and the only way to Raise the Bronze Serpent upon the Staff of Moses is with complete Chastity(renunciation of the orgasm).

Of course in those days(Age of Pisces), Nagarjuna, like the Buddha Shakyamuni, would have only taught the Sexual Mysteries of the Karmamudra to his closest disciples. Even now, most Lamas don't speak much about it. The Dalai Lama has spoken blatantly about it in a few of his books though.





[edit on 18-12-2007 by Tamahu]

Ok, I see what you're referring to romanowski.


In one particular case cited, a man lost 10 years of Internal Work because he spilled intentionally.

As already mentioned, an accidental fall does not necessarily cause us to destroy everything we've worked for in the Great Work.

So if I 'spill my cup', at least according to the samael you are refering to, i have un-done any spiritual advancement i have made in my life? That is if it is done intentionally? if so, wow. that explains a lot. =D

Here's a good analogy:

Never.

But there different degrees of the fault. If you intentionally spill, then yes, you will most likely loose everything you worked for, the energy you use to do that will revive all the old egos within you, and even more, they will now be stronger (in the same way that heating and cooling metal over and over makes it stronger each time).

What I have learned is that you must make the maximum of effort, and when you fail, you must make an even more serious effort. You must find a way. This is a path of the triumph over terrible emotional crisis. This is the Path of the Razor's Edge.

Originally posted by Tamahu

This is answered here:


Can one have children while practicing sexual magic?

Actually reading the article, which I had already before asking your opinion, is sort of discouraging

Yes, it is possible to have children while practicing sexual magic – however it is not something to be expected. A single sperm can easily escape without the man needing to ejaculate millions.
....

....The desire to have a child is not an acceptable excuse to stop practicing sexual magic. We have heard the story where the wife of a couple who had been practicing sexual magic for many years desperately wanted a child. The husband eventually gave in and fornicated just once with his wife. Because of this a child was born, yet, the husband lost about 10 years of work upon himself. His state of mind, his ability to meditate, etc., were taken away; he was as if he never worked upon himself. Therefore, let those who wish to enter this path seriously contemplate what they want in life

It almost seems that its saying its possible but not likely and you should asses what you really want. Agreed?

Should one wait until after having children to try this?

What are the powers you get if you don't spill? This is pretty cool. Is not spilling just about having control of you and not about actually the fact you ejaculated?

Originally posted by romanowski
Should one wait until after having children to try this?

That's up to you.


Perhaps you might first meditate on your reason(s) for wanting children.


IMO, this world has too many people as it is, and not enough resources to go around(or rather that a certain few are taking control of all the resources, of which there should be enough to go around).


If you practice Alchemy; then, as described in the Gnostic teachings, you can still engender a child, and through prayer, the Third Logos may guide a sperm to that end if your karma allows for it.

It is taught that when we Transmute, we can Coagulate the Forces of the Holy Spirit(and dissolve the ego).

With this in mind, we could also provide a much more positive environment for our children to grow up in.


But again, it is for you to decide.




[edit on 18-12-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Shawn B.
This is pretty cool. Is not spilling just about having control of you and not about actually the fact you ejaculated?

Here I've highlighted a short, yet pithy answer to your question:



Fundamental Notions of Endocrinology...

Originally posted by Shawn B.
What are the powers you get if you don't spill?

However:

The First Great Birth of the Christ Jesus

...instead of coveting degrees, powers, initiations and divine lordships, we must exert the effort of becoming useful beings to this suffering humanity.

We must exert great efforts in the law of the great service. We must seek the fertile work in the Great Work of the Father. We must seek the means to become more and more useful to this wretched, suffering humanity. This is better than coveting internal titles, initiations, esoteric degrees and planetary kingdoms.

The personality, the individuality and the “I” are the hard chains that bind us to the hard rock of suffering and bitterness. Gods and humans are submitted to the suffering of conditioned life.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by Tamahu]

I am curious to know exactly what is to be gained from not spilling the rest of your life. I'm just having a hard time coming to grips with that. I mean, If I could see an example or something of some incredible wisdom or knowledge, clairyvoance or prophetic skill I would be inclined to start on that path. I have no credible evidence that the system is a worthy pursuit, respectfully. Please don't take me the wrong way on this, I'd love to get it if there's something to get.

Hi Voyager1

Originally posted by Tamahu


Here, I've highlighted a short, yet pithy answer to your question:


Fundamental Notions of Endocrinology...

Does that help to clarify?

I understand the benefits and I believe one can achieve a great deal

but I also believe it doesn't happen overnight and you can't even begin without trying, practicing etc and you are bound to fail, not intentionally but nonetheless

I also believe not propagating life or having children is surrendering

I most certianly want at least one child. So this is my dilemma.

I suppose through meditation one can find these answers.

Its just all new to me so wanted to clear things up.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by lazy1981

 

Ahh.. brings back a memory when Masonic Light and me had a debate as to whether or not proclaimed Satan Worshipers could be Masons because they believe in a Supreme being, and my devils advocate position I claimed that God in both books was in fact Satan.

I often wondered about that myself, my logical conclusion was "NO." But for the sake of my curiosity can you be a Mason if you practice Satanism?

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by lazy1981

I got a question, do you (as the Coptic manuscripts from Chenoboskion say) believe that the GOD in the Old Testament is actualy satan, and the GOD in The New Testament is the true GOD?

No, the Gnostic myth of Ialdoboath is allegorical. Most Gnostics do not literally believe that the material universe was created by an evil being; the story symbolizes the inherent evil present in matter, and our duty to overcome it.

If I remember correctly that is also loosely the same idea that the pagans hold. With the symbol of the five pointed pentagram. They pointed the white point (White-Spirit, Red-Fire, Blue-Water, Yellow-Air, Green-Earth) skyward to represent the idea that we should be based in spirit and not base matter.

reply to post by Tamahu


Is that Madam Blavatsky or Blavatskaya? Didn't her teachings in some way become associated with the Thule society and in turn the Nazis?
Again, just asking and not lashing out, don't worry I love to learn new things and I'm pretty open minded. (I like to think) In any event thanks for the info.

Originally posted by romanowski
Tamahu & ML

id like both your interpretations of "The Perfect Matrimony" by Samael Aun Weor

Both Tam and I are interested in Gnosticism, but we have radically different interpretations of some aspects of it. I don't agree with Samael Aun Weor's teachings and practices, but Tam does. On the other hand, I have an interest in Crowley's work, but Tam feels about Crowley about the same way I do about Weor.

Personally, I do not hold Samael Aun Weor's doctrines, and take most of what he says in "The Perfect Matrimony", and elsewhere, with a grain of salt.


[edit on 19-12-2007 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by lazy1981

I often wondered about that myself, my logical conclusion was "NO." But for the sake of my curiosity can you be a Mason if you practice Satanism?

There are three distinct forms of Satanism; I will list them, and attempt to explain why they cannot be made Masons.

The first and popular branch is the Church of Satan, founded by Anton Szandor LaVey in 1966. The organization's philosophy and creed are explained in LaVey's 1969 book "The Satanic Bible".

This organization is composed of atheists and agnostics. They consider all spiritual religions, which they call the "Right Hand Path", to be just myths without any reality behind them. They believe that RHP followers, especially Christians, to be hypocrites and hucksters, so they adopted Satan as their chief symbol to show their opposition. They do not consider Satan to be a symbol of evil, but rather one of independence, liberty, personal responsibility, and rebellion against unreasonable authority. In place of spiritual religion, they introduce the "Left Hand Path", i.e., a religion which celebrates the carnal and sensual and denies the spiritual. Satanists of the Church of Satan cannot become Masons because they do not believe in the existence of a Supreme Being. They acknowledge Masonry as a Right Hand Path mystical order, and they oppose all such organizations in principle.

The second branch is Setianism, promoted by the Temple of Set, founded by Dr. Michael Aquino in 1976. Aquino joined the Church of Satan in the late 1960's, became a priest, and later a Magister, equivalent to bishop. By 1975 he he was the third ranking member of the Church of Satan, right after LaVey and LaVey's wife, Diane. It was Aquino who infamously presented Sammy presented Sammy Davis, Jr. with an honorary membership in the Church of Satan after Davis played the devil on a TV show and mentioned the Church of Satan in it.

In 1976, LaVey announced that those making financial contributions to the Church of Satan would be given the priesthood orders. Aquino and the other members of the Satanic priesthood felt betrayed by this, and resigned. They then organized the Temple of Set to carry on their own work. It is the position of the Temple of Set that Satan is a Hebrew caricature of the Egyptian deity Set, whom they believe in as a literal intelligent spiritual being. The Temple of Set do not consider Set evil. However, they regard their doctrines as Left Hand Path, and Masonry as Right Hand Path, and the two sets of doctrines are not reconcilable. Setians therefore cannot become Masons.

The third branch are the devil worshipers. They literally believe in the Christian version of the devil, believe the devil is evil, and therefore promote evil in order to serve their master. This type is often engaged in criminal activities, and they tend to be sociopathic. They cannot be made Masons.

Originally posted by lazy1981
If I remember correctly that is also loosely the same idea that the pagans hold. With the symbol of the five pointed pentagram. They pointed the white point (White-Spirit, Red-Fire, Blue-Water, Yellow-Air, Green-Earth) skyward to represent the idea that we should be based in spirit and not base matter.

Indeed. The Pentagram in that fashion was probably first used by Pythagoras, who was an initiate in the Egyptian Mysteries at Thebes. Pythagoras' teachings inspired the Great Mysteries at Eleusis.

The Pentagram is still used in that fashion by Freemasons, Hermeticists, and Kabalists; many neo-pagans have also adopted it.

Originally posted by lazy1981


Is that Madam Blavatsky or Blavatskaya? Didn't her teachings in some way become associated with the Thule society and in turn the Nazis?

Yes, but both Thule and the Nazis twisted the teachings of others in order to make them conform to their own doctrines. For example, the Nazis made a national hero out of Nietzsche, but censored his books to remove everything they didn't agree with. Neither Nietzsche nor Blavatsky would have approved of either the Thule Society or the Nazi Party.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by Masonic Light]

Sexual Energy

I wish to oppose some of the nonsense recommended in this thread.

The dogmatic and rigid view of sexual energy having to be harboured, not-spilled, horded in the body and used for acts of creation other than sex itself is a gross exaggeration of what the energy was meant for.

The original occult idea is that "in order to manifest your will by magical means you need to charge that idea (thoughtform) with energy". This doesnt necessarily have to be sexual energy, it can also be ecstatic trance or even only natural enthusiasm. But since sexual energy is naturally very powerful, occultists began using it in combination with their willed intentions. Since full orgasmic quality returns only a few days after of it having been "spilled", there is really no need to go years or even weeks without sex. If you need energy for sports-performance, it might be a good idea to do without for a few DAYS (like some top athletes actually practice), but thats quite enough, because energy NATURALLY RE-CHARGES and quickly too.

Some of the ideas presented here are based on doctrines of scarcity of energy. Simple natural principles have been taken and blown out of proportion, making it look like you have to become a monk in order to be worth anything. Energy-Scarcity teaching is, however, human-made doctrine and never in alignment with higher forms of schooling.