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Global Warming......Could it be our fault?

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posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 08:36 AM
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Just a new thought and want to send it out there to you all. For starters, as most of you know, I am not afan of global warming....

But, here is my take on how (if it existed) it could be our fault.

We already know the greenhouse effect is nessecary for life on earth and one of the most important aspects of this green lush planet for survival. We also know there is a hole in the ozone layer. Now the age of this hole is undeterminable, but I venture to say its been around since the birth of the planet, or atleast since there has been life on it.

I am not going to spend all day doing research, I will let you bombard me with it instead.

What I am here to pose to you is........are we the cause of global warming. YES or NO?

For the purpose of the arguement, I will say global warming exists (that hurt to admit). Since the 1970's we have been adament about the hole in the ozone layer and the need to shrink it. We also know that it has incresaed and decreased in size for thousnads of years. We don;t knwo what makes it grown and don;t know what makes it shrink, but we all seem to be convinced that its our fault. Chloroflourocarbons, cows farting...what ever. Its our fault. Now we decide to take all these steps to control the size of the hole and take credit for its shrinking. Was it meant to shrink??? Or did we just screw with nature?

What if the hole in the ozone layer and the green house effect were designed to work together? In times of increased sloar radiation and electromagnetic rays the ozone hole magicly increases in size to let out more heat at night and then shrinks back to normal size when solar activitity dwindles? haven't we not been in a heightened period of solar activity, from increased sun spots to larger solar flares? HMMMM...sounds a bit fishy to me.


I am here to tell you now that YES, we are the cause of global warming and its because we have taken steps to control nature by shrinking the hole in the ozone layer. We should leave the earth well enough alone and let it carry out its own proccesses. If we keep messing with it, we are sure to get burned. Let the hole in the ozone layer fluctuate as it should. Acxcording to scientists we are entereing a period of diminishing solar activity. I say we let it play itself out and see what happens. From a lot of data (you will all dispute it anyway) it appears that since 1998 we have entered a cooling period. Letes give it a few years, maybe this might work. If all goes as I predict and we leave the ozone hole alone, with the lower solar activity, we should quietly cool down.

On top of all this, what does playing with the hole in the ozone layer do to weather? Maybe we are the root cause of all those crazy killer hurricanes too!!! What if by closing the hole we heat the atmospher up too much and that rises the average water temprature...creating stronger and more powerful hurricanes. WE ARE TO BLAME!!!

OK, my time is up. Go ahead and fire away. Its just a theory of mine.....like global warming is of algores.

But, I will stand here and take all your shots, I think he is jetting off to some other country to acept some award or something.

Sorry for any mis-spellings, not feeling like going back and checking it over.




posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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I am glad you bring this subject, specially when here in GA we are experiencing record braking temperatures in the 80s in December for more than just a day.

And with no rain in site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know if this is man made or just a freak of nature, but this spring many of the crops that needs at least few weeks of continuous freezing are going to give a hart time to growers in the south.

I have to say that this is not normal and since I have been living here this has been getting worst every year for the last 10 years, it seems that winter is arriving later and later and not as cold as it should be.

So, there goes the peaches and pecans next season.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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Send some of that weather up here. Been much colder and wetter than normal. Snowed 4 times already in NY City.

Any thought on my theory?



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by traderonwallst
Any thought on my theory?


Your "theory," which is actually a hypothesis, has one serious flaw -- the ozone layer blocks UV radiation. The radiation that causes heat is IR radiation.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:34 AM
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How is that a flaw? I am not claiming that anything about ozone blocking anything. I am saying that the greenhouse effect captures the heat energy provide by the electromagnetic reaction of solar radiation. The hole in the ozone layer allows a cooling effect to keep a balance. This balance is what allows life to exist on the planet. We aer neither too hot, nor too cold for life to exist. Why are the poles cold???? HMMM......hole in the ozone layer is there allowing heat energy to escape! makes ya think.
Blocking UV radiation does not play any part into the weather or climate, it prevents us from getting all kind of cancers.

Got to love that ozone!

Nice to see you.......again, beachcoma


[edit on 11-12-2007 by traderonwallst]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:39 AM
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Interesting to bring up the Ozone Holes and Global Warming together. You see the ozone hole is known to be a man-made negative impact on the planets systems. The release of CFCs caused the depletion of ozone which led to the opening of ozone holes.

Most people who don't want to believe in the anthropogenic causes of global warming don't like to talk about the ozone hole. Because we isolated what chemicals led to the depletion of the ozone and the creation of these holes we banded together, and in a effort led primarily by the US humans drastically decreased the use of CFCs and as a result have seen the ozone holes begin to repair themselves.

The ozone holes were first discovered in 1985. NASA/NOAA have data that show levels of ozone beginning to repair / replenish themselves in 1997. I am sure some people would say that this is a natural cycle and our termination of CFC chemicals had nothing to do with the improvements. I say hooey.

Check out this site The Ozone Hole it has some basic background information on the ozone hole and a NASA/NOAA graph showing the decline and increase in ozone.

In regards to global warming, surely it exists. I for one believe that humans play a major roll in it as well. That is not to say we are the only factor, but the amounts of carbon, methane, and other chemicals we release into the atmosphere is huge. As has been seen with the ozone hole, the wastes we produce can be highly damaging to natural systems so ignoring how they impact these systems and not taking the appropriate action to mitigate our impacts is willful disregard for our planet.

The degree to which humans are the cause of this problem is not for me to state in certain terms, however I do believe we are the major cause of it today. I do understand the natural cycles of warming and cooling on this planet, but I don't think the changes we have been seeing are the work of natural cycles alone. The speed and intensity of natural system changes leads me to believe that once again our actions are causing trouble that will need to be addressed.

EDIT: AS pointed out by traderonwallst, my assertion that humans created the 'ozone hole' is false. The ozone hole is believed to be natural. What I should have said is, 'humans are responsible for ozone depletion, which led to the increased size of the ozone hole.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Animal]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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On August 2, 2003, scientists announced that the depletion of the ozone layer may be slowing down due to the international ban on CFCs.[3] Three satellites and three ground stations confirmed that the upper atmosphere ozone depletion rate has slowed down significantly during the past decade. The study was organized by the American Geophysical Union. Some breakdown can be expected to continue due to CFCs used by nations which have not banned them, and due to gases which are already in the stratosphere. CFCs have very long atmospheric lifetimes, ranging from 50 to over 100 years, so the final recovery of the ozone layer is expected to require several lifetimes.

en.wikipedia.org...

Depletion of ozone slowing down as of August 2003, some findings indicate a cooling trend beginning in 1998, all while solar activity has begun to slow after peeking and seeing the 11 year sun spot cycle peak in the mid to late 1990's.




The level of solar activity during the past 70 years is exceptional - the last period of similar magnitude occurred over 8,000 years ago. The Sun was at a similarly high level of magnetic activity for only ~10% of the past 11,400 years, and almost all of the earlier high-activity periods were shorter than the present episode.

en.wikipedia.org...


Things that make you go ........ HMMMMMMM



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by traderonwallst
 


Okay, I see what you're trying to say. In a nutshell, solar-wind interacting with our ionosphere heats up the air above and convection currents bring the heat down to below stratospheric levels. The ozone layer, being a greenhouse gas blocks it from completely escaping except through the hole in the south pole. But when there is increased warming, the hole expands to let additional heat out.

Is that it?

Hmm... maybe. Warmer temperatures means less oxygen in the oceans. Leads to more anoxic bacteria which produces nitrous oxide (N20). N20 breaks down ozone.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Animal
Interesting to bring up the Ozone Holes and Global Warming together. You see the ozone hole is known to be a man-made negative impact on the planets systems. The release of CFCs caused the depletion of ozone which led to the opening of ozone holes.

The hole in the ozone layer is man made? You better cite that one. Scientists claim that ozone depletion is a man driven event, but I have never seen a claim that the hole in the ozone layer is man made. I feel the hole has always been there, but we were never able to detect it until our technology advnced. I feel people take that and say since we just foundit, we must have created it. I feel it fits nice with my hypothesis, and until you prove that the existance of the hole in the ozone layer is man made, then I will continue to assume it is a naturally occuring event and part of my new hypothsesis of creating a perfect planet for life.



Most people who don't want to believe in the anthropogenic causes of global warming don't like to talk about the ozone hole. Because we isolated what chemicals led to the depletion of the ozone and the creation of these holes we banded together, and in a effort led primarily by the US humans drastically decreased the use of CFCs and as a result have seen the ozone holes begin to repair themselves.

The ozone holes were first discovered in 1985. NASA/NOAA have data that show levels of ozone beginning to repair / replenish themselves in 1997. I am sure some people would say that this is a natural cycle and our termination of CFC chemicals had nothing to do with the improvements. I say hooey.

People disagree...you say hooey. Nice arguement. First off, the hole in the ozone layer was first discovered way before that, they just did not know what they found. They originally blamed it on faulty equipment and bad readings, I believe that was back before 1920. I say hooey to you. Who is not to say that that the fix did not occur naturally, or do the actions taken by the earth itself. We truly live on an amazing planet and its has been taking acre of itself for millions of years without our help.


Check out this site The Ozone Hole it has some basic background information on the ozone hole and a NASA/NOAA graph showing the decline and increase in ozone.

In regards to global warming, surely it exists. I for one believe that humans play a major roll in it as well. That is not to say we are the only factor, but the amounts of carbon, methane, and other chemicals we release into the atmosphere is huge. As has been seen with the ozone hole, the wastes we produce can be highly damaging to natural systems so ignoring how they impact these systems and not taking the appropriate action to mitigate our impacts is willful disregard for our planet.

The degree to which humans are the cause of this problem is not for me to state in certain terms, however I do believe we are the major cause of it today. I do understand the natural cycles of warming and cooling on this planet, but I don't think the changes we have been seeing are the work of natural cycles alone. The speed and intensity of natural system changes leads me to believe that once again our actions are causing trouble that will need to be addressed.



If you truly understood the natural cycles of warming and cooling, you would not be so adament that global warming exists.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


everything effects everything else. cycles are created and recreated.....

the earth heats up......the earth cools down.


We can not control the mechanism of life called "earth", nor should we try to.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 11:43 AM
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I guess people don't like my "hypothesis"



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


I would like to know why this was moved to Skunkworks?

People are not allowed to have new hypothesis???



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by traderonwallst




The hole in the ozone layer is man made? You better cite that one. Scientists claim that ozone depletion is a man driven event, but I have never seen a claim that the hole in the ozone layer is man made. I feel the hole has always been there, but we were never able to detect it until our technology advnced.


You are absolutely right here, you have pointed out a complete mis-representation of the facts. I am referring to ozone depletion, not the creation of the holes. Thank you for pointing out this mistake.



People disagree...you say hooey. Nice arguement. First off, the hole in the ozone layer was first discovered way before that, they just did not know what they found. They originally blamed it on faulty equipment and bad readings, I believe that was back before 1920. I say hooey to you. Who is not to say that that the fix did not occur naturally, or do the actions taken by the earth itself. We truly live on an amazing planet and its has been taking acre of itself for millions of years without our help.


Fair enough, hooey is an easy word to say. Still I find it stunning that when a change in the environment happens at the same time as intentional changes in human systems that are undertaken to have the effect on the environment that is then seen (increase in ozone) I can't help but think that the person who disagrees is willfully ignoring the truth.

It is important to note that you do make an excellent point when you say, 'Who is not to say that that the fix did not occur naturally, or do the actions taken by the earth itself. We truly live on an amazing planet and its has been taking acre of itself for millions of years without our help.'

Yes the Earth is an amazing planet. Sure I could see natural cycles taking part in the improvement, it is nature that produces the ozone, no? But the depletion of the ozone was anthropogenic, and the reversal of decreasing ozone came about at the same time as bans on CFCs, so why is it so hard to believe that WE were impacting the planet.



If you truly understood the natural cycles of warming and cooling, you would not be so adament that global warming exists.


I know a bit more than most and a lot less than many. Still I see humans as directly involved. Sure in my time debating this here my position has changed, but unless you can provide me with something more than the above quote I am going to have dismiss your point altogether.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Animal]



posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 12:17 PM
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[edit on 12-12-2007 by traderonwallst]



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