Aliens: The Good And Evil Debate

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posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 01:17 AM
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I have noticed here at ATS that there is a continuous debate as to whether aliens are good or evil. Now, my opinion has been stated profusely before and will be stated again in this essay.

The mainstream Christian perspective on this issue is that if alien are existant at all, they are "evil." While I vehemently disagree with them on this issue, they, like all persons, are entitled to their opinions.

While some here at ATS, try to spiritualize the whole issue, I personally think it is a physical issue. I never have bought into the whole idea that aliens are angels or demons. I just never have. Why would either angels or demons have such a curiosity about the human anatomy? Do they not already know all there is to know about the make-up of the human body? I'd venture to proclaim that they do.

Whatever/whoever the aliens are, they have a vital interest in not only our anatomy but our emotions... That's not something very many spiritual entities would be too interested in, I wouldn't think.

Yet, it is a fact that aliens are interested in our anatomy and emotions.

One of the things that the alien phenomena has encourage is dialogue.


'the search for extraterrestrial life . . . offers a
meeting ground
not only for physical, biological
and social scientists, but also for
artists,
philosophers, [and] theologians . . . The effort
encourages
people from very different intellectual
traditions to talk to one
another, and may set the
stage for . . . the unification of knowledge.'
Dialogue

Now, granted, the dialogue hasn't always been equal or civil, at least people are talking. The only true path to knowledge is the path which man walks down together.


However, some Christians have believed (and do
believe) that humans
are the only embodied
creatures in creation to be made in God's
image.
And some atheists love to suggest (it is
rarely argued) that 'if and
when one ever detects evidence of an extraterrestrial intelligence . .
. that
evidence will be inconsistent with the existence of
God or at
least organized religion.'


These two mindsets have always amused me. There realy should be an asterisk by the Christian assumption. Most Christians would say, "If there are aliens, they are certainly evil."
Really, now? Based on what? Simple. The arrogance of man..

The atheist assumption that aliens would somehow "disprove" God or eradicate religion is so preposterous, I won't even address it.

It is only the arrogance of man that decrees "Only earthlings are worthy of the grace and goodness of God."

Our little blue marble has only existed in the universe for about 4.5 billion years. That's not even a blip on the cosmic radar screen. Yet, we have this foolish, arrogant assumption that we are somehow "special." What are we special at? Well, we have certainly proven special at causing wars. Killing the environment. Invading space. Living in ignorance. Hating our neighbors...Et cetera,et cetera. Are we "special" in the large scheme of things. I think not. I think not.

While other civilizations are not inevitable, they are likely.


It is probable that there is life elsewhere in the universe and that some of that life is intelligent. There is a high mathematical probability that among the trillions of stars in the billions of galaxies there are millions of planets in age and proximity to a star analogous to our Sun. The chances seem very good that on some of those planets life has evolved. It is even highly probable that natural selection governs that evolution (Dawkins). However, it is not inevitable that the results of that evolution would yield intelligence, much less intelligence equal or superior to ours. It is possible that we are unique (Pinker 1997: 150 ff.).

Likely

The quoted article above discusses the issue, albeit skeptically, of alien abductions.... Now, almost all abductees report a profound interest in the human anatomy and emotions. To me, this alone disqualifies any assertion that aliens are somehow spiritual entities. "That of the spirit is not entwined with that of the flesh, so saith the Lord Thy God."

The "grays," as most aliens are known have several dilemmas in regards to their interaction with humanity.


The greys have several ongoing problems:

1.The need to increase their number as quickly as possible.
2.As their population increases, more support facilities are required and must be developed. This diverts needed resources from the effort of obtaining self sufficiency. Also as more excursions are required to obtain the suitable containers, the likelihood that their purpose will be discovered and coordinated native interdiction initiated increases. Also the sheer numbers required to continue the breeding operation mandates that they seek hosts in more densely populated areas.
3.As the local military capabilities become more sophisticated it becomes increasing difficult to maintain covert activities.
4.The master race may arrive and intervene at any time.
5.The governments that are aware of their presence may discover the true purpose of their activity and attempt active intervention.
Dilemma

I suspect that part of their interest in our anatomy stems from our reproductive organs. Now, either these creatures have "evolved" to a state where they no longer have such a system, or there is some sort of genetic defect that is rendering them incapable of having off-spring. Either situation would be plausible reason for them to take active interest in out physical anatomy.

My whole point in all of this is relatively simple. Any discussion of the alien phenomena should first be based on the physical perspective. For our physicalness is what sparks their interest in us. As with any physical system, you have both Good and Evil, so to say conclusively one way of the other about these forms is rather a rush to judgment and foolhardiness.




posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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TO be quite honest I had not known until recently about this debate but it is an extrodinary article. THe arrogance of man part I found to be most interesting as it is true from my perspective I believe that some aliens are good and some are bad why do they all have to be one or the other for christ sake we have so much difference on our planet where do we recieve the authority to assume for the entire universe. ON the religous part with refference to how old the earth is I think we are most likely to be the hundredth mabye even millionth race created and we made up half the things in the bible ( not saying its not true but we do say things we are unsure of in the bible like jesus loves all of us, how do we know that?!?! seven though he gave his life for us there again we are not sure of that because he was crucified not on his own accord but his crucifiction was the choice of others) in conclusion some aliens are good some are bad great thread



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 11:49 AM
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Somewhere, there are entities sitting around having a debate on the following:

"Humans: Good or Evil?"

Oh... to be a fly on the wall of that debate!


.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I have noticed here at ATS that there is a continuous debate as to whether aliens are good or evil.


Why do they have to be one or the other?

It's more likely that there are SOME "Good" ones and SOME "Evil" ones, just like with us homo sapiens.

I don't think there are any ETs Evil enough to destroy us completely or destroy our world, or it would have already happened by now.

However, it's possible that there have been ETs that have interfered with us or abused us in other ways. Infiltrating us, enslaving us, experimenting with our DNA, furnickating with our women just for kicks etc.... All the same sorts of abusive things that "Evil" homo sapiens do.



The mainstream Christian perspective on this issue is that if alien are existant at all, they are "evil."


Hmm why do you say that?

In recent years the Vatican has started to admit the existence of extraterrestrials (Monsignor Balducci etc) and they haven't said anything about them being "evil".



While some here at ATS, try to spiritualize the whole issue, I personally think it is a physical issue. I never have bought into the whole idea that aliens are angels or demons.


Right, I think those are just more primitive ways of describing beautiful ETs and ugly ETs.

That's not to say that real "Angels" or higher-dimensional beings don't exist though; for all we know they may very well exist after all.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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We are being protected by some that fight hard to keep the evil ones out of our world. They fight so far away from us that once they leave it is impossible for them to return in this same life time. Generations may pass. But return they do.
Always hoping that we have evolved more so as to join the next faze.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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The mainstream Christian perspective on this issue is that if alien are existant at all, they are "evil."


Fear. They fear that Aliens might expose them and cast doubt to their religion.

The mere fact of a vastly superior intelligence exposing themselves to mankind fairly debunks this guys religion.

If God created everything, including the Aliens, the Aliens would know of God because they're lasted long before us, God would've sent messengers to preach to them (God created them after all), and they're far superior to us.

Yet God hides these beings from us in his books. Is he lying to us if he deliberately omits their existance from us? Or just being prudent so he can play his game of testing who shall enter his Kingdom after they're dead? If God is perfect and his omission of these beings causes harm to those who profess they've encountered aliens or seen spacecraft (in the form of redicule, stress and psychological harm) is he culpable? If he was perfect he wouldn't let people experience these things would he?

What if these Aliens with vastly superior technology turned out to be athiest? Do we start telling them to convert to *insert religion here* or else they will go to hell? I'd like to see that happen when they could destory the world in a whim. What if they have their own God and start reccomending we should convert or else risk going to hell (or something)?

Also religion was made for men and guidance in their earthly primitive ways locked in a human body, sexual desire (which many religions condemn), money (a system the world operates on since barter), marriage, faith, etc. We don't know aliens operate in this way at all, so all of religions clauses are null and void to them (unless, of course, they do operate in such a manner - which would be quite depressing tbh).

Some people suggest ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) how aliens are in the bible.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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I have wondered if some of the biological experiments claimed to be ongoing could have to do with preserving our own race if a major cataclysm happens with earth.

For instance if *they* have developed a method to remove our geneology or DNA and place it in a safe location there would be a chance for this race of humans to restart somewhere else or even here when the earth was ready to sustain us again.

If this was the case I would see it as a positive intention.

Edit to add:

By the same token *they* could be attempting to create a human form to manifest their own species into and possess those created bodies. Either as a merging or as a possession.

I think this would be a negative intention if it took from humanity against our will to further themselves. But in the big picture we are missing so many facts it is hard to judge a situation.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by interestedalways]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by interestedalways

For instance if *they* have developed a method to remove our geneology or DNA and place it in a safe location there would be a chance for this race of humans to restart somewhere else or even here when the earth was ready to sustain us again.


I'd bet that there are already very advanced races that have us and our DNA "catalogued" in just such a way, the same way we do with rats, guinea pigs etc.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by igor_ats
[Fear. They fear that Aliens might expose them and cast doubt to their religion.



Cast doubt on the religion or their interpretation of the religion? You see, I personally think it's more the latter than the former, that's just my take on the issue.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr


The mainstream Christian perspective on this issue is that if alien are existant at all, they are "evil."


Hmm why do you say that?

In recent years the Vatican has started to admit the existence of extraterrestrials (Monsignor Balducci etc) and they haven't said anything about them being "evil".



Well, that just sems to be what I have encountered. I am aware that the Vatican has, at least been rumored, to have admitted the existence of other civilizations. However, mainstream "Christians," particularly evangelicals, don't view Catholicism as a form of Christianity. I know, it's ridiculous but they don't.

Most or the Christians I have encountered seem to infer to me that if aliens exist, they'd be "evil."



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by interestedalways
 



Interested, what you suggest is what I personally think. I think they are examining our bodies to see exactly what the composition of them are. Once they have a clear understanding of that, they can alter the genes of a selected group of humanity to be able to withstand many of the super viruses and such which are beginning to rear their heads...



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by antar
 



Antar, most likely they fight in "shifts" sort of speak. This group fights the bad ones for a while, then another group comes in and picks up the slack...



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
However, mainstream "Christians," particularly evangelicals, don't view Catholicism as a form of Christianity. I know, it's ridiculous but they don't.


HUH???


You can't get much more "Christian" than the Roman Catholic Church....


Most or the Christians I have encountered seem to infer to me that if aliens exist, they'd be "evil."


Well that may be due to all the "Evil Alien" propaganda directed at the public, and not symptomatic of Christianity specifically....



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 




I have noticed here at ATS that there is a continuous debate as to whether aliens are good or evil.


I don't believe in good and evil and I don't quite understand why so many ATSers do? Everyone has heard the saying "one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist." It's pretty easy to see that the world is built around individual perspectives. The closest you get to "pure" good or evil is in cartoons and movies (aka fiction).



There realy should be an asterisk by the Christian assumption. Most Christians would say, "If there are aliens, they are certainly evil."
Really, now? Based on what? Simple. The arrogance of man..


You got that right. Being Christian doesn't make them arrogant so much as being a man does.



The atheist assumption that aliens would somehow "disprove" God or eradicate religion is so preposterous, I won't even address it.


I don't find it preposterous. If one believes mankind is the pinnacle of the universe, and the only thing above him (in the pecking order) is the creator of the universe... then yes accepted mainstream proof of a higher alien intelligence would certainly shake that belief.

However, if one believes that the creator of the universe(s) doesn't favor living creatures based on intelligence and knowledge then it wouldn't impact them in the same way. It just depends on what you believe.



Our little blue marble has only existed in the universe for about 4.5 billion years. That's not even a blip on the cosmic radar screen.


The age of the universe is thought to be around 15 billions years... so 4.5 billion years would be a blip.



I suspect that part of their interest in our anatomy stems from our reproductive organs. Now, either these creatures have "evolved" to a state where they no longer have such a system, or there is some sort of genetic defect that is rendering them incapable of having off-spring. Either situation would be plausible reason for them to take active interest in out physical anatomy.


A good theory many UFOlogists have tossed around. The main argument:
If they are so advanced, why do they need us to reproduce at all? I'm still pondering that myself speaker...



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by igor_ats
[Fear. They fear that Aliens might expose them and cast doubt to their religion.


Cast doubt on the religion or their interpretation of the religion? You see, I personally think it's more the latter than the former, that's just my take on the issue.


No logical interpretation or spin of the bible would be suitable to incorporate superior intelligence from across the stars.

No matter what denomination of Christian, a doubt would arise were an advanced intelligence make itself known from the fact that the bible (iow God) has no acknowledgement of them. Ther'd be no religious protocol to follow should they make themselves known - people would panic as ther'd be no scripture to deal with the situation (by that I mean how they fit into Christianity). You only have humans, angels/fallen angels, God/Devil. No aliens. Why would God lie to man by keeping him in the dark about superior beings who's technology is practically God-like and could wipe out humanity in a whim? How would each denomination spin it? What if the superior beings have no acknowledge Jesus as "the way" and are thus barred from entering heaven? This would give great strength to atheism and thus a problem (for Christians) would arise as it questions the existance of God altogether.

That's why some Christians fear them.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Scramjet76
I don't believe in good and evil and I don't quite understand why so many ATSers do? Everyone has heard the saying "one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist." It's pretty easy to see that the world is built around individual perspectives. The closest you get to "pure" good or evil is in cartoons and movies (aka fiction).


So, for example, killing 6 million people in a genocide isn't "Evil", it's "just a matter of perspective"?





A good theory many UFOlogists have tossed around. The main argument:
If they are so advanced, why do they need us to reproduce at all? I'm still pondering that myself speaker...


Right, that whole theory doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If they really needed our DNA for some reason, some blood, hair, fingernails, flakes of skin etc would suffice; and then they could grow their own Humans in test tubes or do whatever.

They certainly wouldn't need to drag thousands of people aboard their ships, anal probe and torture them, force them kicking and screaming to mate with them and all that....

I think those kind of abductions are more likely sophisticated psychological-warfare operations (Fear The Evil Aliens!) than real genetic experiments.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by MrdDstrbr
 




So, for example, killing 6 million people in a genocide isn't "Evil", it's "just a matter of perspective"?


Just because I may perceive it as evil doesn't mean evil exists. My opinion of myself is obviously biased. I cannot (with certainty) say what I would do if the things that matter most to me were at stake. Underneath all the refinement I am an emotional animal am I not?



I think those kind of abductions are more likely sophisticated psychological-warfare operations (Fear The Evil Aliens!) than real genetic experiments.


I think you might be right. The question is why do they need to deceive us at all? What are they hiding?



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:14 PM
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Lets get real confusing here:

There are good aliens
There are evil aliens
There are ugly aliens
There are pretty aliens

There are ugly and evil aliens
There are ugly and good aliens
There are pretty and evil aliens
There are pretty and good aliens

There are good aliens who appear as evil
There are evil aliens who appear as good

There are ugly good aliens who appear as pretty evil aliens



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


ROFL!

Yep you summed it all up nicely there



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Scramjet76


I think those kind of abductions are more likely sophisticated psychological-warfare operations (Fear The Evil Aliens!) than real genetic experiments.


I think you might be right. The question is why do they need to deceive us at all? What are they hiding?


According to people like Carol Rosin and Steven Greer, the idea is to terrorize people and keep them afraid of the Evil Aliens so that they will turn to the Military-Industrial Complex for security and protection, support weaponizing Space and eventual "Star Wars" etc.

The dynamic is the same as 9/11, the "Evil Muslims", "War on Terror" etc. The War On Aliens was slated to be the next big war after the War On Terror runs its course.

It's just the MIC creating perpetual terror and War so that it can keep itself in power indefinitely.



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