Obese should buy two plane seats, says Australia survey

I agree that obese people should pay for 2 seats, airline seats are small enough for regular size people, they make them like that way so they can get more people on the planes to justify the cost of operations. I do not think they should have to make special wide seats for the obese. obesity is controlable. every show ever shown on t.v show these people as not wanting to help themselves. they cry, lay on their beds and bitch about how the rest of the world is unfair, everything but excercising. btw there are special seat that are bigger its called business class. I am 5'6, and 150 lbs, I dont think a 300lbs person who is 2x my weight should pay for one ticket. also because of reaching problems most of these people stink. I once flew from Europe to the U.S next to an obese person. it was the longest smelliest flight ever... YES YES YES, buy 2 seats for god sakes. for the guy who says that people are too sensitive, I bet you could lose a few 100 lbs yourself.

Originally posted by Tinhatman
reply to post by Areal51

 

But to claim that someone typing into their crackberry or talking on their phone is in anyway the same as having someone rubbing up against your body with their's for 3+ hours is like syaing oggling a pretty woman is the same as walking up to her and grabbing her boob. Someone putting themselves into a postion to rub their body parts up against you without your permission is not the same as Talking on your phone.

My logic is sound. What you refer to are differences and only differences. I refer to differences in the context of a logical argument. That, is, touching is in the same class of perception as sight, smell, taste, and hearing. In the context of our argument, there is no logical difference between a roll of fat touching you or smelling the person sitting next to you. However, there is a HUGE difference between looking at a woman's chest from across the room and then walking across the room to grab her chest. If a woman is sitting next to you on a flight and you keep looking down her low cut dress or shirt, then she should get a reduced rate from having to deal with your stares for the duration of the flight. She should also have the right to smack your face!

reply to post by Areal51




What a load of crap!!

Different matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time. If someone's fat is occupying half of my seat, I cannot occupy that same half of the seat.

"my logic is sound" HA!

[edit on 13-12-2007 by Rasobasi420]

reply to post by Rasobasi420


Matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time as what? Where's the rest? There isn't any logic to your statement. It's incomplete. Do you mean to say, two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time? If so, then that would withstand scrutiny. Are you also saying that the woman sitting next to you as you stare down her bosom isn't right when she says, "I could feel Rasobasi's eyes undressing me"?






[edit on 13-12-2007 by Areal51]

Originally posted by Areal51

Originally posted by Tinhatman
reply to post by Areal51

If a woman is sitting next to you on a flight and you keep looking down her low cut dress or shirt, then she should get a reduced rate from having to deal with your stares for the duration of the flight. She should also have the right to smack your face!

She would have absolutely no right to smack you in the face. That is assault. She could ask you to stop, or ask to have her seat exchanged, etc. but under no circumstances under the law would she be allowed to smack you. Furthermore, the airline would in no way be responsible if they were not made aware of the situation and didn't take measures to rectify the matter. It would also be prudent for her to either not wear a low cut blouse, or to cover herself up.

It's very easy to ask someone to stop staring immediately. It's not as easy to ask someone to lose 100 lbs. immediately.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by free_spirit_earth

 

In a perfect world you would be correct. It would be ideal that everyone gets the proper amount of space. However, as it has been pointed out several times already, it is economically impossible. Everyone would have to pay more, or nobody would be able to fly because the airlines would all go bankrupt.

I would be interested to hear you propose a successful business model that would keep ticket prices low, allow more space, and still allow the airlines to stay in business.

EEEE Wrong again!!!

Thats the whole problem 'economics' its all about the $$$$$ not the people...
This is the airlines business it seems to focus on cramming in as much small skinny people as possible to make a profit

MONEY BEFORE PEOPLE!!!

Same story......yet these same big fat people will be welcomed with open arms to mcdonalds or burger king why cause its about the dollar dollar bill yo hahaha..

This is discrimination to the max through the greed of profit.....

We pay to much in taxes anyway for flights, departure tax, hell even noise tax at the airport now, govt tax, so hell yeah you better give me 2 seats for the price of 1 hell yeah...

When i fly usually fly Emirates cause they are the best i always ask to be seated next to a empty seat and 10/10 i always get it you can put your feet up in luxury....

hey as the lord said ask and ye shall receive!!

If your dumb enough not to ask then your problem....

Im not a small guy either i'd fit into a single chair just though but having 2 is luxury hey you even get a spare food tray for the empty seat wooot...

Some of you guys in here talk as if every flight you go on your sitting next to a big fat person!!!! PLEASE!!

I'd rather sit next to a big fat person than a small skinny untalkative person with bad odour...

reply to post by Areal51


touching is in the same class of perception as sight, smell, taste, and hearing. In the context of our argument, there is no logical difference between a roll of fat touching you or smelling the person sitting next to you. However, there is a HUGE difference between looking at a woman's chest from across the room and then walking across the room to grab her chest.

But if touching is in the same class as sight etc etc why would it not be ok to grab the boob? Whats the difference between looking and grabbing in your use of "logic"?

This is not a matter of the 5 senses, it is a matter of being touched without permission. Being bumped into or something in passing is one thing but having someone rub their body up against you for 3+ hours seems like it might be something else right? Or would that be in the same class as seeing someone? That's like saying "it's ok to look at a pretty woman , but it is also ok to walk up to her and rub against her for 3 hours"

Also, is seeing someones fist then assault? Or smelling it? What would the difference be between seeing or smelling someones fist and "feeling" it punch you? Same class of perception right? Should the airlines hand out mittens to all it's passengers and extra large mittens for the overwight ones?

You proved your logic unsound by making this an argument of the senses. This is an argument of personal space and someones choice to invade it by rubbing themselves up against someone who is unwilling.

In the same sense though, if the airline has no policy against fat or making them pay for 2 seats and you choose to fly anyway, well you get what you get. But to think that a fat person should not only get a discount price because they need 2 seats not to be rubbing on some poor persons body but that the unwilling victim also has to pay for the extra seat space that they themselves are not enjoying just to keep some fat person from rubbing on there body seems kind of silly.

If you use 2 seats, you should pay for 2 seats. I still am baffled that this is a debate. oh well, chalk it off to Government education

reply to post by migliavacca


I said that the woman SHOULD have the right to smack you in the face. How come she cannot make you feel just as uncomfortable as you made her? She does have the right to wear what she wants, just a person has the right to weigh as much as they would like.

As I stated earlier, I think the airlines is fair in having persons who take up more than one seat to pay for the extra ones they use. Nothing is wrong with that. My point is that there are countless other scenarios that illustrate that other passengers who are being inconvenienced on flights in addition to those who have to sit next to fat people. Sure you can tell someone to stop staring, but, what's to prevent them from staring? Maybe automatic tinted windows between seats?

If all seats are filled on a flight and you are stuck sitting next to a fat person that takes up part of your seat, then the airline shouldn't benefit, YOU should benefit with a reduced rate. That's how I see it. I see it this way because whether the airlines charges fat people extra for extra seats or not they do not loose money, but YOU definitely lose the chance at an enjoyable flight if you happen to get seated next to an overweight and intrusive body. As far as I'm concerned, that's no different that getting stuck next to a snotty nosed, whiny, restless and bratty kid. Reduce my rates and I would think that all is fair. I do not think it's fair if only the airline or the overweight people only get to benefit. The airlines protects its bottom line, for more money fat people get more seats for their fat bottoms, how do I get Mr. Blackberry Banger from off of my nerves, Ms. Chatterbox from out of my ears, and Johnny B.O. from out of my nose? How does my girlfriend keep your eyes from off of her navel? Flying first-class would not solve those problems for everybody. Reduce rates for those inconvenienced. And just whose armrest is it anyway?

reply to post by readitfirst


if a sadist? that worked for an airline company could see our comments---------imagine the mayhem he/she could cause?make sure all the 300 lb passengers had to sit next to each other-----------and maybe at the back of the plane so the pilots could have fun wondering why the tail wont stay up as they look into outer space-----------oh the fun a sadist? could have-----------------and dont tell me such people dont exist--------i have had the miserable experience in my 40 years of working to have 2 for bosses------------------purposely put 2 people together to supposedly work on the same project knowing that one guy hates the other and what the results will be---------nothing but contention and arguments-and sometimes a fist fight---have walked by the bosses office afterwards hearing him laugh and tell his friends what he did-------this situation in the federal government with incompetent bosses wasting tax payers money while they set up their ideas of a hollywood? comedy.

reply to post by Tinhatman


CONTEXT is the difference. You're making isolated statements and then accusing me of doing the same thing. I have not done the same as you.

I have responded in relation to whether overweight people should be charged for the extra seats that they take up on airline flights. To that question I have already answered that it is fair for an airline to have such a policy. Go back and read my earliest post and you will find that to be true.

Now what you may not have noticed, is that MANY people in this thread have equated the proposed policy of the OP (overweight people paying for extra seats) with their inconvenience of having to sit next to overweight people on flights. To my logical mind those are two different arguments. (If you were really using logic to analyze what I was saying or to make your points, then you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.)

Argument 1: Are airlines being fair to require overweight people to purchase an extra seat if that person takes up more than the space of one seat?

Argument 2: As a means to help alleviate the inconveniences imposed on some persons, should an airlines require overweight people to purchase an extra seat if that person takes up more than the space of one seat, when that person's body inconveniences in some way another person who is sitting next to the overweight person?

Understanding this would save you the headache of understanding my arguments.

In direct response to your latest response to me, I would just say that all of your scenarios are isolated scenarios minus the CONTEXT of the arguments that I made. For instance, you've brought up the issue of sexual assault. I didn't make any initial statements on that issue. What I did say in response to you was that, given the contexts of this thread, staring at a woman sitting next to you on a flight is not the same as staring at a woman across a room, or is not the same as walking across a room and grabbing a woman's chest. What I did say is that staring at the chest of the woman who is sitting next to you on a flight is the same as a person sitting next to you whose body is rubbing up against yours on a flight, if both acts are unwelcome. Given that if both acts are unwelcome, then both acts are inconvenient and intrusive, and in my opinion, the staring is FAR more offensive than someone who can't do anything about a part of their body touching yours.

Everything else you've said breaks down in the same way. As far as the second argument goes, permission is not the issue, being inconvenienced is the issue. I simply stated that if others are being provided remedy for their inconveniences by the airline, then other inconveniences should be addressed as well. My suggestion was a reduction of rates for those who are inconvenienced.



[Edited Argument 2 question for clarity.]

[edit on 13-12-2007 by Areal51]

As i said before we pay far to much taxes for flight tickets its ridiculous, now theres the airport noise tax incorporated into tickets therefore i think the airline should make it comfortable for everyone it's their service so they should make the arrangements to have a) the fat person travel in comfort & b) the skinny one next to him travel in comfort..

If there are any spare seats together that are left have the fat person sit in them, end of complaints end of story, seems like the airlines want to suck dollars out of people by charging for an extra seat when they have some available anyway on their flights..

If the flight is full then stick the fatty next to a kid i mean its not like a skinny kid will use all his seat anyway...

Another tip would be to check the plane seat dimensions for the airline you are going on, as different planes have different seat widths...i find Emirates in Aussie the best seats their 1st class ones are huge to...

Anyway it's about time these airlines gave something back to us tax paying people anyway get bigger planes lol...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't obesity considered a disability by some? Charging extra for having a disability doesn't sound very legal.

Although this may be enough encouragement for obese people to lose weight. There would be nothing more embarrassing than walking to a checkout counter and being told that you have to pay for two tickets because one seat would not be enough for you.

I have to agree with it totally.
I have had an experience just this past year flying. I took my father to the Daytona 500. The old man always wanted to go so I sprung for the trip. We asked for the row that had the emergency exits over the wings. There is more leg room there...My father is 6'6" and about 260. We chose those seats for that reason. He is a large man (not fat) with a bad knee. There are ways of getting the room you need if you are tall.

So the guy next to me shows up and is HUGE. So big that he needed an extension on his seatbelt. After he gets settled in he is basically pushing me into the isle because he is sooo big. Now, my father says what is on his mind w/o much regard to anyone. I am my father's son but have learned to try to refrain from doing this most of the time BUT I am my father's son...lol. After getting cramps in my back from leaning out into the isle and the flight attendant asking me to slide back in while she brought the drink cart out...I had had enough and complained to both the attendant and the man. I paid for my space not 1/2 of it...Well by the time it was all said and done with I recieved a free voucher for a flight. It helps if you know how to complain...

Another time flying back from Europe my daughter and I were together and she was 2. At that time 2 y/o did have to have a ticket but I bought one because I didnt want to get stuck holding her. So this extremely large man was placed next to her. The attendants had to move him from where he was because he was in the emergency exit aisle and didnt think he could operate it correctly. He had to lift the armrest up between the seats to fit comfortably. It crowded her the entire trip and he COMPLAINED that she kept bumping him. She is 2 y/o in HER seat that I paid for. If he hadnt been so fat and 1/2 way in her seat it would not have happened. I made the guy put the armrest down inbetween the seats to seperate her space and he acted like it was my fault he was so damn fat. The thing that killed me about it was the man complaining the whole time about being cramped and not having enough room and my daughter bumping into him. I have no sympathy for people that overweight...do something about it. ANd if you aren't able to do anything about it...Wake up and realize...yes you are fat and most things are built for obese people...Were were flying Lufthansa not Big And Tall airlines.

There was a program on the learning channel or discovery...one of them that was talking about this very issue. It gave figures for fuel consumption years ago and fuel consumption today and how it has increased because everyone is getting heavier and with obeseity becoming more common, it keeps getting worse. No one wants to hear that you are so fat that you need to buy another seat but on the same token no one else should have to suffer because of your weight.

Create a new class for them...charge more for the seats but dont make the rest of us suffer for it. It makes perfect business sense if they look at their data.

Maybe we chould just pay by the pound?...like the post office... lol we could brainstorm and come up with some great names for our new airline...

I had to fly from Orlando to Dallas next to a big person on my most recent flight earlier this year. It was miserable. 3 out of the last 5 flights I have been on have been next to Fats. It's America, they seem to be everywhere. Being loud or smelling bad is one thing but once you start physically imposing your body on someone else it takes it to a whole new level. I do not think an airline should comp for any little inconvienance but forcing someone to essentially sit underneath someone else is different.


I am at the point now where I do not fly except for businness or unless I am in the position financially to afford business of 1st class. You get on a plane knowing what to expect and I think airlines are going to start charging more for their Fat customers just because it does increase the cost for the heavier loads and additional space. Also it causes folks like me who used to fly 3-4 times a year not to fly at all.

Taxes here are a non-issue. Taxes should not pay in any part for any ones anything.

People have to accept that they must pay their way even if it means paying extra for whatever choices we make, in this case being the choice not to put down the cheeseburger.

Unwanted physical contact is unwanted physical contact. CONTEXT makes no difference.

[edit on 13-12-2007 by Tinhatman]

maybe if the airline companys didn't treat us like cattle then this wouldn't happen

Originally posted by Tinhatman
Being loud or smelling bad is one thing but once you start physically imposing your body on someone else it takes it to a whole new level.

There's nothing wrong with what you are saying. I'm still not sure why you think that I'm saying that there is. Yes, I agree that folks should pay for what they use. But since there are two arguments I decided to address both of them. The first argument is simple and straightforward. The second one borders on absurdity; it borders on absurdity because, where should the line be drawn with respect for types of inconveniences? The basis for each argument is completely different from one another. The basis for the first argument is a matter of economics. The basis for the second argument is a matter of convenience.

1.) Should a person pay more if they use more? Yes.

2.) Should a person pay more because they inconvenience others? Huh?

If you happen to be seated next to a fat person who has already purchased two seats then you should be fine, yes? There shouldn't be any further problems. That person is sitting in their two seats which they paid for and you are sitting in a seat you purchased. Convenience is not the basis or an issue. Though, it might provide additional benefit to other passengers who might still be seated next to the fat person sitting in two seats.

With respect to the second argument, the fat person has paid for two seats not because it's a financial concern for the airline, but because of the matter of convenience concerning other passengers, well, I think more economical provisions along the lines of other inconveniences to passengers should be addressed. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by kaferwerks

There was a program on the learning channel or discovery...one of them that was talking about this very issue. It gave figures for fuel consumption years ago and fuel consumption today and how it has increased because everyone is getting heavier and with obeseity becoming more common, it keeps getting worse.

No the price of petrol is going up because of a so called president from a so called country that doen't want to get his sheepish army out of IRAQ!!!

Originally posted by kaferwerks
Create a new class for them...charge more for the seats but dont make the rest of us suffer for it. It makes perfect business sense if they look at their data.

Shall we create a class for all the people who stink of body odour, and all the people who are to tall that i can't see the movie on the TV that i paid for from my flight..

Originally posted by PeaceUk
maybe if the airline companys didn't treat us like cattle then this wouldn't happen

I Totally agree there!!!! As i said before it's all about the $$$$ not the people...

reply to post by Areal51


I know you are agreeing in principle, I am not trying to flame out on you. I just do not think having a fat person buy 2 seats so as not to physically put there body on you is a matter of conveinance. I think it is the responsibilty of the airline to ensure that their policy does not include the mandated body grope of a fat or overly large person on their neighbors. If a Fat can fit his or her butt into 1 seat but everything above the armrest is flowing over onto their neighbor I think that even though the economic argument may not apply (Butt in 1 seat) it is the airlines job once said squishee becomes squished by squisher that the Squisher must purchase another seat. Otherwise the squishee is not only being forced but paying to have some stranger rub their body up against them for the duration of the flight. In any other context unwanted physical contact borders on the criminal in almost all situations. This type of physical contact is no different because it is unwarranted, unwelcome, and makes the victim (probably the Squisher too) incredibley uncomfortable emotionally and physically.

I just do not agree with how you imply that not wanting some stranger to be touching you is a matter of convienance.

Your stature should be part of the ticketing process and a new system Maybe called Equal Space could be utilized in a diplomatic manouver to pair Obese passengers alongside children or under 100 lb people as well as automatically ticketing larger passengers to single seats in vacant rows, then only fill the row/s or close proximity seats as volume of passengers increases to maximum. This would keep the matter between the agent and the client thus reducing chances of embarressment.
While we are at it the cigarette companies were sued for addicting people to tobacco via nicotene killing millions slowly and profitably. Maybe a class action suit of fast food and food manufacturers for addicting people to foods via lab designed chemicals like msg. equally killing millions. should be evaluated.

Can I put my two cents in on this "debate"?

I am a big woman and when i have had to fly i have bought two seats (and paid extra to make sure they were adjacent because the airlines can separate two people). I don't like being squashed up next to some one anymore then anyone else. For the most part, I don't lop half way into the next seat, as others so delightfully pointed out in their posts, but without lifting the arm it is a tight fit. Most of the time there is no problem but occasionally things go ca-ca and i am usually the one who gets the ca-ca!

One flight i was bumped because a woman with a whiny kid decided they wanted my seats. I was lead off the plane and told i would get the next flight which turned out a day and a half later and two flights they couldn't seem to get me on. Did i get an apology? No. Did i get any voucher? No. Did i get any kind of compensation for my troubles? No. And yes i did complain, to no avail. And it was a threat of a law suit that the airline finally did something. I no longer fly that air line if I can help it.

On another flight, I had Mr. Handsome StudlyJerk take the seat next to my extra, almost empty seat. From the moment he sat down, it was one crude remark after another. All the female flight attendants (and one of the male ones too) were fawning all over him, laughing at his snide remarks that were directed at the circus fat lady (one of more kinder ones). About half way thru the flight I got a chance to talk with the senior attendant. It was for naught. I was essentially told to shut up, sit down, and pay no attention to the person. Again it was the threat of some kind of legal action that the airline did something.

Most of the reactions to big people on airlines are not positive. We are the subject of ridicule, discrimination and general disdain from many passengers as well as the airline employees. This is why i buy two seats, so as not offend others and yet even that does not and will not appease those who see us as something less than they are. On the other hand, from all my travels, when i see people like that I am not so sure i want to be in their circle anyway.