It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by Masonic Student
All of which has been made abundantly clear ad nauseum. However, each of you is failing to address my previous statements - also made ad nauseum, that the stated goals and objectives as stated by Masons regarding Masonry, can be achieved without the silly secretiveness and rituals. In continue to fail to see the point in all of that - but to each their own I suppose.
I can honestly say much of what I learned in Masonry to me would be meaningless without me having witnessed the ritual previously. I can further add that every time I see the degrees performed I take additional lessons or meanings from them. Perhaps if I had only perused them online or in a library I might have been able to eventually interpet some sort of understanding of them but at what benefit?
To use your Karate analogy, would you benefit by studying this martial art singely or in a Dojo? I can practice my forms and katas at home but I take the greatest benefit from them by excercising their lessons in a group enviornment. Would you not agree?
My beef comes not from being a member of a group. My beef comes from the secret nature of the group, the rituals and such.
To me, they seem absolutely pointless and juvenile. That is just MY opinion and perhaps you see such tradition differently which is fine.I guess that there seems to be a complete disconnect between the stated purpose of the organization and the actual practices as they are inconsistent with the stated goals.
Example: If I am attempting to be philanthropic and benefit mankind as a whole, why do I need to don a cloak, carry candles, chant, get paddled or whatever it is you guys do!?!? I understand and agree with your strength in numbers argument. It is evidenced by Goodwill, Salavation Army, Red Cross, Purple Heart Veterans etc.
If the stated goals and intentions of Masonry were accurate then wouldn't membership into one of those organizations better serve the realization of said goal? It would seem to me that all of those organizations are much better suited to helping you reach your stated goals and objectives, no???
I think you could agree that Masonry hardly shares that similarity.
To me it all just seems so hokey.
you are being disingenious regarding the stated goals and purpose of this organization as I have already demonstrated that there are organizations far better suited to achieve those stated goals and that the general practices and structure are counter-intuitive to reaching the stated goals.
Originally posted by ~Axiom~
no matter how many times moderaters alter my post and make it so people cannot see what i think
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Never mind, it ain't worth it. Thumbs up to Umbrax for his quick response. That dude struck out faster than Barry Bonds before his morning dose!
[edit on 14-12-2007 by Masonic Light]
Let me clear here... I do NOT hate Masons - period! Earlier in this thread I indicated that my brother-in-law, his father and one of my best friends are all Masons and I love and respect each of them.
That's all. It's nothing personal against any of you. To be clear, I can see than many of you are extremely intelligent, well-written, well-read men. I am certain that on any given night at the pub we could get on perfectly.
While in college, I was invited to join a Fraternity and passed due to it's very nature - everything was to be kept secret. Such a notion seemed both stupid and counter-productive. I personally elected to follow another path.
Someone questioned/commented on my participation in charity... Let me just say that I have spent the past 14 years donating my time cooking meals at a local shelter. I donate clothing and food to the local shelters regularly. I work the Coats for Kids charity every single year and my family adopts a family at Christmas time to ensure that that family has their needs provided for.
To question my personal mission or rather to incite the idea that because I frown upon Masonry that I cannot be charitable is preposterous!
I understand that you feel strongly about your "Craft" as evidenced by your posts. I will respect the path that you have chosen but you must also respect mine.
We obviously will fail to reconcile our differences of opinion on this matter. So, instead let us simply celebrate the fellowship of mankind and all strive to be better people regardless the mechanism chosen to accomplish such a mission. Fair enough?