New Freemason, having some doubts

if racism is as much a part of america's history as masonry just leave and join another lodge if you feel you would not encounter a situation like what you describe. besides what club or organization does not have its own particular views and beliefs which differ from the norm; thats why there groups.

reply to post by sacerd


That is all well and true, but God didn't create us all equally tolerant, wise, understanding, kind, smart, ect. This being said no matter what religion or organization you choose to look at the people who happen to be members will not all act the same. Just because a man/woman is Christian doesn't mean that in some twisted way they will not view Oh, lets say racism as being ok. And they will usually find some piece of Scripture to twist in order to back thier claim.

Anyway, see God gives us all our own streangths and we all have our own weaknesses.

Romans 12:3-8 For I say, trough the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.Having then gifts differing accourding to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith: or ministry, let us use it in our ministering: he who teaches, in teaching :he who exhorts, in exhortation: he who gives, with diligence: he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

I know it's a bit long but I wanted to show you the point. We all have faith and streangth in an area that God gave us. Some Christians shine in many, some are average, and some don't shine at all. You see if you were to meet me in every day life and never brought up the subject of religion you wouldn't know that I am Christian. I don't wear it on my sleeve, I don't go around preaching to people (reguardless of the impression this post gives), I don't make it a habit to rescue kittens out of trees , or pretend to be someone I'm not infront of other Christians. I'm actually the loner type, a drinker, smoker, and I love a good fist fight. I'm so far from perfect it's not funny. I'm imperfect and I'm very aware of it (not proud). Yet when it comes to important things my faith shows through.

I guess the point is that there is no mold for Christians, Freemasons, Muslims, ect. (which ever religion or organization you examine). There are just people that come with there streangths, weaknesses, and lifes baggage that makes them who they are and defines them and how they conduct themselves.

[edit on 24-4-2008 by lazy1981]

Originally posted by sacerd
I cant think of a single Christian Denomination that tells it's members to be a jerk LOL.

While this may be true it often falls to the individual church or Minsiter to perpetuate non-Christian actions or rhetoric. I can think of a certain Baptist church congregation that acts like 'jerks' (which is an understatement in my opinion).

The Westboro Baptist Church is well known for picketing and protesting the funerals of our serivcemen with such offensive signs as 'God Hates Fags' and 'Semper Fi Fags'. They are a rather un-Christian group of people who parade around under the banner of Christianity.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


While it is true that the congregation that you speak of is indeed pretty offensive they are not indicative of the Christian church by a country mile.
If I am not mistaken every member of that congregation indeed directly related to the minister. i.e. that congregation is, if I am not mistaken made up entirely of his children, their spouse's and his grandchildren.

Well .. this thread has made me more sympathetic towards masons. The bs I had to read here was incredible, some claims people make are just unbelievably stupid and insulting, it's like masons aren't people anymore. This is the main problem, if we can't find some common grounds to discuss this like adults every thread will end up like this one has, and sadly the problem originates from the c-theorists. I hope the original poster found his answers in these 14 pages of misery. If I were you I'd ask advice from the person who introduced me to the lodge in the first place, you should be able to trust him.

Just a couple comments. I did not read the whole thing.

In Massachusetts according to the Grand Constitution you can DO business on the EA degree but those who are NOT Master Masons cannot vote.

I lived in Michigan for awhile and affiliated with a Lodge there. Some of the Brothers were very racists. I attempted to talk to them about it giving them their due as Brothers to be aware of this and hopefully change it. Unfortunately I met with strong resistance. Thankfully I was only affiliated and could easily leave the membership of that Lodge when it became apparent that nothing was going to change or be done about the Racism in the Lodge.

Maybe I shouldn't expect that but then again I think a Mason who is a Racist is wrong.

reply to post by sacerd



I agree, but it is indicitive that there are bad apples in every orginization, from Masonry to Chrisitanity. I mentioned these offensive individuals in regards your comment refering to 'baseline' morality in Christians. While they do not at all represent Christians throughout the world, as any person should rightly judge, they still postulate themselves as such and their poor behavior reflects on others to a degree.

Here is a bit of observation from an outsider on the issue of Freemasonry and racism (for whatever it's worth).

After reading through the first 8 pages of the thread, I didnt see any posts from the Masons here mentioning inclusion of black brothers in their own lodges. That seemed odd to me. What I guess I was expecting to see here was several of the Masons in the thread speaking up and saying "I dont know about your lodge but my lodge welcomes black brothers with open arms etc.".

Anyhow, I did some reading elsewhere to satisfy my own questions. Primarily, "What stance does Freemasonry take toward black members within it's ranks?"

I read that "some local Lodges are barring Black African-Americans others are welcoming them". Not exactly what I was hoping to find but I can certainly understand that lodges in certain geographical areas may reflect differing opinions from lodges in other areas. It would seem to me that Freemasonry is having the very same struggles with internal pockets of racism that society in general is having. Not so much different from the fact that even ATS has a bit of racism here and there.

I'd like to believe that the Masons are largely good people with good intentions (I do not buy all the masonic conspiracy crap lets put it that way). I certainly hope that one day they will be able to root out the racist members and lodges among them. It would seem from what I've read that they are winning the battle but still have a ways to go.

MasonicDictionary.com/Racism

[edit on 25-4-2008 by SystemiK]

Originally posted by SystemiK
What I guess I was expecting to see here was several of the Masons in the thread speaking up and saying "I dont know about your lodge but my lodge welcomes black brothers with open arms etc.".

I can not speak for other jurisdictions but in mine this is the case as we have several members in my lodge who are black (among other ethnically and religiously diverse backgorunds). There is also more then two hundred years of tradition that enters into the equation as well, being that Prince Hall Masonry predates many of the state Grand Lodges and there is no need for Prince Hall to fore go there own lodges to attend what were at one time condsidered 'white only' lodges.

While their ritual is similar in many respects there are some notable deviations which make it unique and enjoyable. Why not attend both-as we can-and participate in both?

[edit on 25-4-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by sacerd


I guess if the example that AM gave (the Marine hating homophobic types) is more of the sort that you were getting at then my previous answer wouldn't be correct. To that I would say that they have no idea of what the true message of Christ was and put forth a bigoted example of what Christianity has nothing to do with. Those sorts don't see that even if The Word is against the way that a person lives their life your supposed to love them as a child of God anway. That's His place to pass Judgment.

Originally posted by SystemiK
After reading through the first 8 pages of the thread, I didnt see any posts from the Masons here mentioning inclusion of black brothers in their own lodges. That seemed odd to me. What I guess I was expecting to see here was several of the Masons in the thread speaking up and saying "I dont know about your lodge but my lodge welcomes black brothers with open arms etc.".

Well, I wasn't around during the first 8 pages of the thread, but I'll go ahead and chime in with your requested "I dont know about your lodge but my lodge welcomes black brothers with open arms etc."

The Worshipful Master of my lodge in 2007 was black, and the current sitting Jr. and Sr. Wardens both are (as is the Jr. Steward, though that's an appointed position rather than an elected one like the WM, SW & JW.) We've got a few openly gay members as well. No issues here.

The Worshipful Master of my lodge in 2007 was black, and the current sitting Jr. and Sr. Wardens both are (as is the Jr. Steward, though that's an appointed position rather than an elected one like the WM, SW & JW.) We've got a few openly gay members as well. No issues here.

Ditto on all accounts here. Our W.M. for this coming year is african american. three other officers are non-caucasian as well. No issues here either. We also have a LOT of really old caucasian guys who someone might assume or infer due to their age may be racist. if they are, I've never heard a single word about it.

Our SW's black, the SD Sikh, the IG Catholic and a recent PM Jewish. A pox on the myopic

This thread should be locked down.It's topic is not about any conspiracy theory on secret sociaties.It's just about a mason having problems in his lodge.I't a publicity stunt.It should get locked.I tink masons should be able to defend their ideology or what ever that is but they should not be able to promote it.There is the below top secret forum for this kind of stuff.

reply to post by pepsi78


Funny, because I think this serves as anti-mason propaganda more than anything else. But of course, since masons and non-masons responded and the thread didn't quite end up in the normal vein of pure vitriol and hatred that some antis thrive on, it is unusual for these forums.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

I think the point of the original post has been lost here. The OP claimed he had witnessed offensive opinions toward African Americans in his lodge. I do not doubt tis to be true. My state is one of the few that does not recognize, nor hold stated communications with, Prince Hall lodges. It is the one thing that makes me doubt the "brotherhood" of Freemasonry - especially given the fact that we welcome Hispanics, Pacific Islanders, and Asians.

Back to the point, however, is my opinion that the OP is trolling. Although he brings up legitimate concerns, he does not bring them up in a form indicative of a true brother of the craft. Despite his "knowledge" of the inner workings of a lodge (all of which can be learned from Wikipedia) he does not speak like a Mason.

In my Lodge - in the UK when a new member joins we give him whats known as a "mentoring pack" and his ritual book - pertaining of course to our lodge as all lodges differ slightly.

The Mentoring Pack just like the ritual book is segmented and is added to as he progresses from E.A.F.M to M.M

He is also tutored and mentored by his proposer and seconder and is never left alone or wanting for answers.

I cannot believe some of the remarks he heard nor how he must be feeling after joining what he thought an honourable society.

I have been a Mason since 2001 and there have been trials and tribulations in my masonic career so far but nothing like what the OP has experienced and I do feel sorry for him.

We refer to a "business" meeting as to the meeting where we elect the officers for the following year (ours is May) but usually we refer to it as a regular meeting.

When we open the lodge on a particular level we ask all brethren below the rank of (whatever level lodge is about to be opened) to retire then admit them again once business as been concluded in that degree.