What is going on in the Kabbalah?

my Father has no boundaries.

Does the sky have a limit?
Does the universe have a border?

No.
And No.

Actually, yes and not sure.

As for Kaballah, well not to judge anybody or anything here, but I had a bad experience with a kaballist, who thought she knew it all and very nearly ruined my life. My girlfriend left me, I lost my job through depression, I ended up sleeping rough on my mates flea ridden couch, I had no money and nearly ended up jumping in front of a train... (such was my grief)

Just because of the words of one woman, who brainwashed my girlfriend into thinking the woman was everything and was always right and she failed to listen to the voice of reason.

For a woman who claimed to be pure, righteous and sound of soul, she very nearly destroyed mine.

Luckily, I'm okay, I now have my own place, two jobs and a full time college course.... But not through any act of god, just pure human determination.

But even kaballists are human and can make many mistakes... as everyone else can.

But for me, I don't believe in God, and if he/it/she did exist then I'm sure it wouldn't want us humans trying to work out its formula.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by mr-lizard]

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

I've read most of it and I don't understand any of it, . . .

The Qaballah has traditionally been describe as a collections of texts that would make full loads for more than twenty camels.

And you've read "most" of it? Maybe you should give Hebrew and Aramaic lessons. Most of it still hasn't been translated into European languages; though more into Spanish, Polish and German than English, certainly.

I just looove threads that start out like this.

.

But for me, I don't believe in God, and if he/it/she did exist then I'm sure it wouldn't want us humans trying to work out its formula.

[edit on 11-12-2007 by mr-lizard]

i can relate to what you have been through and can understand your point of view and even respect it. As to your point that is quoted above, Itend to think that like any father , there is joy in watching your children discover what you already know. in saying that I will leave you with a thought ...

Sometimes the hardest thing for a parent to do is sit back and watch your children learn from their mistakes.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
As for Kaballah, well not to judge anybody or anything here, but I had a bad experience with a kaballist, who thought she knew it all and very nearly ruined my life. My girlfriend left me, I lost my job through depression, I ended up sleeping rough on my mates flea ridden couch, I had no money and nearly ended up jumping in front of a train... (such was my grief)

That's all just awful. I'm glad you survived!

Just because of the words of one woman, who brainwashed my girlfriend into thinking the woman was everything and was always right and she failed to listen to the voice of reason.

Really! NO ONE is always right - especially based on gender...and if reason and logic are tossed out then certainly error would become the norm rather than the exception! EGAD!

For a woman who claimed to be pure, righteous and sound of soul, she very nearly destroyed mine.

Ah..yes. Beware of those who flaunt their own presumed virtues. It is invariably a case of wishful thinking imposed upon others for the sake of convincing self.

Luckily, I'm okay, I now have my own place, two jobs and a full time college course.... But not through any act of god, just pure human determination.

Good for you. Truly.

But even kaballists are human and can make many mistakes... as everyone else can.

I personally don't have any particular regard for self-proclaimed experts in any field - not to say I reject any potential information or knowledge which they might be able to share - but it is strictly on item-by-item qualification and has nothing to do with the person delivering the information.

My reasons for this are basically due to a Buddhist proverb which I find to be profoundly true:

To the expert's mind, the possibilities are few. To the beginner's mind, the possibilities are endless.

I hope to be a 'beginner' forever!

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

I've read most of it and I don't understand any of it, . . .

The Qaballah has traditionally been describe as a collections of texts that would make full loads for more than twenty camels.

And you've read "most" of it? Maybe you should give Hebrew and Aramaic lessons. Most of it still hasn't been translated into European languages; though more into Spanish, Polish and German than English, certainly.

I just looove threads that start out like this.

.

www.sacred-texts.com. Look under Judaism. I have read most of what is there.

I just loooove your attitude too pal. It's not like I came on saying I had the answers to life, the universe and everything, I came here asking a question in humility.

I understand your desire to be an ass less than the Kabbalah...do yourself a favour and don't bother replying please - I won't be paying attention to you.

Carl

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

www.sacred-texts.com. Look under Judaism. I have read most of what is there.

That site has only two actual Kabalistic texts (sefer Yetzirah and part of the Zohar). The rest are "renderings" by various members of the Golden Dawn, and abridgments for which the copyrights have expired, and are in the public domain. It doesn't even scratch the surface of Kaballah. The wikipedia article will teach you more.

Wescott and Mathers didn't even know Hebrew; they merely copied earlier translations into french, and claimed them as their own. Mathers especially, contains numerous errors.

Starting in the 1980's a couple of lurianic schools started publishing modern translations.

Some of the most readible are by Aryeh Kaplan. He also wrote his own text on Hitbodedut--meditation that it quite good.

The best place to start is the works of Gershom Scholem, who was a Kabalistic authority as well as a university professor. His Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism is probably the singe best intro to the topic.

Some modern translations that are worth reading include

Or Ha-Bahir - "the Light of Brilliance" Aryeh Kaplan did a translation with commentary plus original hebrew text.

Shaarey Or - "The gates of light" Attr. Josef Gitkallah, another translation with commentary and original Hebrew.

Most copies of the Sefer Yetzirah (including the one at sacred-texts.com) stem from a flawed AMORC (american rosicrucian) translation from the early 19th cent. It contains many errors, even in its rendering of the original text.

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Nice one for the info, but to be honest I'm not looking to read it, I just want to know if there is an explanation to the whole thing!

If anyone has a link...

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
Nice one for the info, but to be honest I'm not looking to read it, I just want to know if there is an explanation to the whole thing!

If anyone has a link...

The wikipedia article is probably as good an article-length read as any.

Book-length I'd go with Scholem's Major Trends in Jewish Mysticsm.


It's a pretty complex topic; one where practitioner's spend their whole lives studying in the field. It's sort of like asking for an article that "boils down" all of engineering to a few paragraphs---you'd lose so much information that I'm not sure how informative the article would be.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
As for Kaballah, well not to judge anybody or anything here, but I had a bad experience with a kaballist,

In there lays the issue.
There is no such thing as a kabbalist.
Now hang in there with me as I try to elaborate and clarify what I mean by this.

Think of it this way.
People are turned off all the time by different things that have negatively affected them.
i.e. Some are 'burnt' by Christians/Christianity, others by 'the system', etc.

Does this mean that all teachings that one would assume to fall under such a label are now inherently evil?

The fact is that we all filter information through a grid system based upon our experiences.

What is hell for one may be heaven for another, and even more so they may experience an aspect of 'it' that you have not.

As for your 'kabbalist' lady, many probably would argue she is not a 'kabbalist' - and it really depends on what that term means to you.

Some may view me as a Christian if they read enough of my writings, yet many 'classical christians' would label me a heretic - what does this all mean?

Simply that words and labels are only symbols pointing beyond themselves.
The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon. (Old Fido will look at your finger waving back and forth and not know to look to where its pointing...silly old dog - but we are very similar)

"Im a Christian" - "Im a Kabbalist" - "no i have the truth" -"no you dont, I do!"

Many people never grow and they remain at the baby stage of whatever religion they were born into. - or they switch back and forth to other ideas and beliefs... always staying at level 0 at each stage. - Oh, and growing in the rigidity of a given dogma does not count as growth.

So again, the question is not "who is a kabbalist" or "what is kabbalah", it depends on the person giving the interpretations. The point is your journey and your search...not boxing things into general categories and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

In other words, someone disallusioned with Christianity would do themselves a great disservice to dump everything that ever learned in Christianity.

What they would benefit from is trying to see what they have learned and seeing if they can look at it in a new light with a new perspective. And also to see how this fits into the larger scheme of life. How does it fit into other beliefs ideologies, etc.

Gods fingerprint is everywhere and isnt isolated to one faction - "His rain falls on the good and the bad"

So be encouraged. There is a lot kabbalah has to offer, but then again what Im calling kabbalah may not be what someone else deems it is.

I will say this also. Its not just that two people may not agree on what kabbalah is or isnt. Again, its about levels of understanding. Something said can take on multiple meanings, and/or be revealed on the outside as a 'parable'/'allegory' and later be understood on a more practical level.

Some people get stuck at one level of understanding and make a religion out of it.
This is fine for them, but in the long run, its just another 'story'.

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by Bluess


It's About getting the SOUL ready for the NEXT step, Ah soo Weedhopper

So, how much can you really learn about the Kabbalah if you can only read English? Would you say it is still worthwhile to look into?