Do Not Watch This Video...

reply to post by shipovfools


Just brainstorming out in the open with that idea really. Your points are quite valid.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
Of course, the entire theory of this video rests on the claim that banks loan out money they do not really have, instead of limiting their loans to depositors money. This is quite simply not true, and it can be proven. The balance sheets for every single bank corporation are available, online, and can be read by anyone who has had an accounting course. The balance sheets are not only audited by outside investors looking for where to invest, but by the government and independent firms too. If you want to claim all of those people are in some sort of global conspiracy to lie about their balance sheets, how is it that companies like Worldcom and Enron came down?

The reality is banks only loan money out based on the money they have. Not all of this money comes from depositors - this is true - most of it comes from the earnings on investments banks make with other peoples money.

[edit on 10-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

fractional reserve banking

from wiki en.wikipedia.org...

"The fact that banks are required to keep on hand only a fraction of the funds deposited with them is a function of the banking business. Banks borrow funds from their depositors (those with savings) and in turn lend those funds to the banks’ borrowers (those in need of funds). Banks make money by charging borrowers more for a loan (a higher percentage interest rate) than is paid to depositors for use of their money. If banks did not lend out their available funds after meeting their reserve requirements, depositors might have to pay banks to provide safekeeping services for their money. For the economy and the banking system as a whole, the practice of keeping only a fraction of deposits on hand has an important cumulative effect. Referred to as the fractional reserve system, it permits the banking system to “create” money.'[2] "

you say most of it comes from the earnings banks make from investments banks make from other people's money

talking about talking in cirlces and making a case for the OP

their earning are huge intrest payments from investments (i.e) loans they allow other's to take out. if you deposit 100 bucks, the bank now can loan out a multiple of that (such as 7)= 700$. thus the fractional reserve tag. the multiple depends on the reserve requirement, so they can create a loan for 700. and they get intrest on these investment's or loans, but they don't have 700, they just have the belief that people will not close out their accounts in masse, and as long as this doesn't occur , then the payments they get from intrest on money they only held a fraction of in the first place will continue to build their capital, from which they make more loans, should these loans for money (created out of mostly thin air i.e at least 7 parts thin air, for every one part "real air") be unable to be paid, then they will collect the assets and then sell them. As long as people dont demand their cash in a much higher ratio of closing out accounts, to creating new one's the game goes on to infinity. P.S also since the dergulation of markets, banks have leveraged the deposits they receive to invest in subprime crap, as long as banks did not get too greedy making bad bets on Sub prime junk which requires huge writedown (which shrinks their capital base) and ability to lend more then they will be ok. If they did, then they will gather and try to orchestrate a gov't bailout which trys to socialize losses.
these spin meisters really crack me up and so does the name light in darkness for a poster that posts only darkness in light, what a joke.

some day the mods here will IMO show even more integrity and make a rule in the T & C against continually posting incorrect crap under a condescending tone (none the less) when it is detemined (say by a majority of mods that the intent of the poster is to create arguments and deliberately post false arguments to do so), take a long look at this crack up's posts that are a smoking gun for someone with nothing better to do than try to derail threads, i got no problemo with differing opinion, and i got no problemo w/ ignorance (this is everyone's right if they choose) but this poster In my strong opinion knows what he is doing, and that is harming the integrity of ATS.

ATS has stone walled these pleas under the guise of not going after witch hunts for every poster. That is a stretch and a unrealistic scenario and the response IMO is born out of i got no idea what. This kind of rule that i suggusted would not even make a large inconvenience to moderators or foster an atmosphere of (witch hunts) . because i believe these posters are very very much the great minority here, but their ability of a few individuals to disrupt numerous threads harms the Integrity of the Site. It would not lead to witch hunts because i would leave my trust in the moderators ability to snuff out these posters and not just any joe shmoe. so it would be dealt with behind the scene's and only those suspected of these tactics would know.



[edit on 14-2-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by cpdaman


Great Post, cpdaman!! I'd star it twice if possible. The premise of this thread is right on, I can't believe you all have let it be de-railed by the likes of "LightinDarkness."

First off let me say that I could only bear reading the first 7 pages of this thread before posting. LinD has some very good points, there needs to be personal responsibility in every aspect of life, especially financial, i.e. don't spend more than you got (or can afford to pay back), but that's not the point of this thread.

I'm not sure how a thread about a flawed monetary system has turned into an argument about "you’re poor because you’re stupid." Either the video provided factual information or it didn't. The question is can banks "create" money as described in the video? The last post leans my opinion towards yes. The other question is does the current monetary/economic system rely on perpetual growth? If that answer is yes then I guess we're screwed, because the last time I checked, the Earth ain't growin'.

One fact continually ignored by LinD, the multi-trillion dollar debt of a nation whose majority of citizens are also in debt up to their collective eye-balls.

Another scary reality: 75% of our economy is CONSUMER SPENDING. But who is doing the spending and what are they using to spend? My guess is that most are the "stupid people" LinD described and are spending money they don't have. In other words, the foundation of our economy is based on people buying "stuff" with credit cards and loans.

DOES THIS SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ANYONE ELSE HERE???

We are living in a house of cards that is ready to topple; the question is not IF, but WHEN? And me thinks it's soon.

The point here is that we've been thrust into a losing proposition from the beginning (or at least my beginning). Put into a maze in which there are only dead ends.

So the question is WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?? My guess is most will sit on their arses and wait to see who the next American Idol is going to be.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT???

I would like to see this thread offer possible actions a nobody like me can do to remedy this situation.

Any thoughts out there? Or maybe George Carlin said it best, the Guys Behind the Curtain like the small guys like us believing in the American Dream, after all you have to be ASLEEP to dream.


[edit on 16-2-2008 by DrZERO]

I always seem to catch on to these threads when everyone is exhausted from arguing. But if I may add;

1) perceptions regarding the spending habits of people are trite and misdirected. Any claim stating that an individual or groups economic conditions are solely their own doing is simply a reflection of the current curriculum that the elite intelligencia propagate through their corrupt money laundering scams (I think they call them universities).

2) Any statistics reported are suspect - and I really mean any. Presumptive axioms are never revealed, qualitative and fuzzy terminology permeate the numbers because its all guesswork. In the final analysis, the only proof is in the pudding. People are homeless and hungry - stuff that on your pipe and smoke it. By the way it is the height of hubris and arrogance to assume you can generalize about the financial failure of a household and compare it to a 'business'.

3) Asking Banks to certify their holdings is another ludicrous action - like they would tell you the truth - despite the fact that it would harm them. Really. It's like asking the government to report on it's own misdoings..., not gonna happen.

4) The issue here is accountability, transparency, and verifiability - none of which behooves those who always seem to want to take a little off the top for themselves because they deem themselves worthy.

You want an alternative?

1 - Make participation in a government body illegal for any incorporated individual

2 - remove 'citizenship' and 'person status' of all corporations

3 - Make mandatory public polygraphs for those who wish to represent the nation and or serve as a decision maker

4 - Make membership in organizations whose agendas are not public a disqualifying factor for public service. This includes religious institutions. If the public cannot attend the meetings, they are not 'open'.

5 - Make Central Banks illegal. conduct business with all foreign nations in public.

6 - eliminate all forms of currency as debt, restore nationally produced currency

how about that? Pretty much any change that would make the International Banking system unable to affect this country's internal economic activity would be an improvement.

Mandate a balanced fiscal budget - create state level coalitions to ensure federal compliance with mandates. Make the federal government an employee NOT a boss (sorry caps).

reply to post by Maxmars


Bravo Maxmars!!! A most excellent post indeed.

Star for that one, most certainly.

What is the total quantity of dollars in all the checking and savings accounts, plus the total dollars in paper and coins?

How does this amount compare to the "national debt"?

Is it reasonable to accept that the amount of debt owed to banks in this country far exceeds the amount of dollars that exist in every wallet, checking account, and savings account combined? Is it reasonable to accept that virtually EVERY country on earth is in debt? How can this planet be in debt to itself? DO YOU OWE YOURSELF?

Money doesn't rain from the sky. It was not given to us by the earth or God, like water, air, or soil. We no longer dig it from the earth, as we once did with gold.

It is created by men. Printed. Entered into computers as data.

Is creating money, and charging interest on this creation compatible with principles of democracy? Or does it benefit the few at the expense of the many?

By what moral, legal, or logical argument do banks claim the right to charge interest on money created out of paper or on computers?

Just answer these questions....

reply to post by ianr5741


I can't remember where I heard it, but I seem to remember something like actual hard currency only represents ten percent of total American dollars. And that does not include the national debt, as the debt is actually a reflection of dollars, or vice-versa. And not an equal reflection at that, as the debt is compounded by interest. For every dollar issued, we owe another nikel to the Federal Reserve Bank. Well, less now actually since they lowered their rates not too long ago trying to stave off total economic collapse, which I predict by Summer.

reply to post by jackinthebox


I just want to let you guys know that I read almost all of this thread and I wanna say bravo to Jackinthebox for pointing this video out for us to see.

Stared and flagged

Also, just to add to the data on this thread,,My area is experiencing economic turmoil like i never seen right now.

I live in SW Florida and this area thrives on the construction industry. When the housing market fell threw the floor the entire construction industry went into an almost 'standstill'. Lightinthedark mentioned an economic recession in 2001-2002. It was NOTHING like this. there is NO work here except in the restaurant industry and when the upper mid - high class stop going out to eat/spending its going to really crumble here. We are in full swing season here and it seems like we are in a dead spot in off season. I can only imagine what its going to be like this summer when it really is off season.

As a result many many people lost their businesses and their employees lost their jobs. There was 2,500 foreclosures in my county alone just last month and has been doubling every month since Jan.

My question is this. What happens when the little countries and other mini economies around the world which make up the rest of the world economy besides the major industrialized nations see that the major industrialized countries around the world are dumping the dollar?

My guess would be that they would follow suit and do what big brother does. And, if this happens, being that the dollar is only worth something because as LIGHTINTHEDARK put it because people BELIEVE it has value. Then the Dollar will inevitability do a domino effect.

What scares me is, the major industrialized countries around the world ARE dumping the dollar.

I don't know about you but I'm stocking up on A LOT of caned foods in these coming months.

P.S. Lightinthedark, just one little question for you. Do banks make money out of thin air?

If your answer is yes then you have no argument in this thread being that that is the topic right? I mean you keep ignoring the main idea here. I really don't get it. If you cant admit when your wrong at least leave with a little dignity. You almost did a few pages back. What happened? pride?

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
Of course, the entire theory of this video rests on the claim that banks loan out money they do not really have, instead of limiting their loans to depositors money. This is quite simply not true, and it can be proven. The balance sheets for every single bank corporation are available, online, and can be read by anyone who has had an accounting course. The balance sheets are not only audited by outside investors looking for where to invest, but by the government and independent firms too. If you want to claim all of those people are in some sort of global conspiracy to lie about their balance sheets, how is it that companies like Worldcom and Enron came down?

The reality is banks only loan money out based on the money they have. Not all of this money comes from depositors - this is true - most of it comes from the earnings on investments banks make with other peoples money.

The entire system of money is that we place VALUE in something. The truth is even if we went back to the "gold standard" we are doing nothing but putting our TRUST that "gold" has innate value. It doesn't actually have any value at all - we just put value on it. Is that a problem? No, as long as everyone else puts a value on gold or whatever it is that is being traded as money (just currency paper, right now). Where is the conspiracy?

How banks create money out of nothing:

www.prosperityuk.com...

www.webofdebt.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.basicincome.com...


Stated a differnt way:

You start with a $100 deposit.

The bank loans $90 of it.

Your deposit still exists, yet the person receiving the loan now has $90 they didn't have before. The total is $190, yet there was only $100 in the beginning. The bank is charging interest on $90 that didn't exist before.

The new $90 will get deposited, allowing an $81 loan based on it. New money, new interest charges. This process is repeated over and over.

It's like magic. Since money is an idea, a concept, a number, it doesn't really have to make sense. You can create "money" wherever you keep an accounting entry. If it says there's a million dollars there, then there is. That's all it takes.

So when a bank makes a "loan" they just write the data into whatever book or computer stores it. Then it becomes money.

This is so contrary to what we have learned and believed all our lives that we almost refuse to accept it. We believe money comes from work, since that is the only way we have ever received it. Yet, believe it or not, there are people out there that get money by cleverly disguising the fact that they are creating it. The scam isn't the fact that they're creating the money, the scam comes in convincing the public that it isn't happening. This is done with all the "accounting" and "balance sheets". They convinced people working for the banks that a loan is an asset. It's not! It's a liability until it is repaid!





[edit on 28-5-2008 by ianr5741]

Interesting viewing..?

www.conspiracymind.com...

i found this video extremely informal. now when someone asks me "where does money come from" I will know...

and I guess my answer will be "a pen."

lol